Kreg HD screws ok for cabinet rail?

[thundacat]

I have a wall full of IKEA sektion cabinets to hang in my garage. The cabinets are hung on a steel rail. I also have a big box of Kreg HD screws lying around - would those be acceptable/safe to secure the cabinet rails to the studs? I was looking at a box of cabinet screws and they look thinner than these #14 Kreg screws. Is there any reason it would be unsafe to use the Kreg screws vs. screws specifically labeled for hanging cabinets?


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[PugetDude]

I have a wall full of IKEA sektion cabinets to hang in my garage. The cabinets are hung on a steel rail. I have a big box of Kreg HD screws lying around - would those be acceptable/safe to secure the cabinet rails to the studs? I was looking at a box of cabinet screws and they look thinner than these #14 Kreg screws. Is there any reason they would be unsafe to use the Kreg screws vs. screws specifically labeled for hanging cabinets?


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I'd use them. They're good screws and have a nice head profile for the application, I've never snapped one installing them with a 1/4" impact driver.

There are a lot of kitchen cabinets out there hanging on drywall screws (including a few of mine...)...not the best idea now that other options are available, , but they were used a lot in the 1980's when they first came out. Haven't heard of an epidemic of widespread catastrophic failures.

Drive a few extra screws into the studs through the back of the cabinets if you're worried.

 

[cheechi]

Quickscrews make a #14 cabinet install screw that's designed to prevent cabinets from coming off the wall during an earthquake. The Kreg HD screws are very similar. see here

 

[Kaizen]

I'd spend the money on lags like these http://www.homedepot.com/p/GRK-Fast...ural-Screw-45-Piece-per-Pack-112225/203525067
While kreg looks the same they have more tin in them I believe. Not much torsion strength. Doubt you'll find kreg claiming they are for anything but assembling stuff.

 

[PugetDude]

While kreg looks the same they have more tin in them I believe. Not much torsion strength.

And you're basing this theory on what?

Tin is not a normal alloying agent in steel.

https://www.thebalance.com/common-steel-alloying-agents-properties-and-effects-2340004

From the Kreg website:

Steel Kreg Screws are case hardened — a process forms a tough outer shell (or case) to make the screw tough, but keeps the core softer to prevent the screw from becoming brittle. That means you get the best of both worlds: a strong screw that won’t snap.

Not much torsion strength.

Torsion strength is needed to drive the screw. Shear strength is what keeps it from failing under an applied load.

Here are the independent lab test results showing the strength of Kreg Screws. Granted, these values weren't measured hanging cabinets, but the values tell me the screws are more than strong enough. In all tests, the wood failed before the screws did

https://www.kregtool.com/webres/Files/KregJigHDForceTestSheet.pdf

Full disclosure; I don't work for Kreg, have no financial interest in Kreg, and only use their screws for rough cabinetry. I am impressed with how strong they are, though. Never had one break on installation, and have never had the screw fail in a joint.

I wouldn't hesitate to hang cabinets with any #14 screw of the appropriate length, (as long as it didn't come in an assortment from Harbor Freight...)

Of course, all of this discussion is around whether the OP can save $5 on a box of screws...

 

[johnnyradiant]

I have a bank of kitchen cabinets hung with #8's at the apartment building I look after. I had to go and rehang them becuase the yahoo that built and installed them figured #8's into drywall was good enough. No concept of how to hit a stud. They have been hanging in on plain jane #10's for years.

With a plain old #14 I'd be more concerned with an Ikea cabinet biting it before the screws did, let alone a name brand screw with some companies name backing their product.

 

[Kaizen]

And you're basing this theory on what?

Tin is not a normal alloying agent in steel.

https://www.thebalance.com/common-steel-alloying-agents-properties-and-effects-2340004

From the Kreg website:

Steel Kreg Screws are case hardened — a process forms a tough outer shell (or case) to make the screw tough, but keeps the core softer to prevent the screw from becoming brittle. That means you get the best of both worlds: a strong screw that won’t snap.



Torsion strength is needed to drive the screw. Shear strength is what keeps it from failing under an applied load.

Here are the independent lab test results showing the strength of Kreg Screws. Granted, these values weren't measured hanging cabinets, but the values tell me the screws are more than strong enough. In all tests, the wood failed before the screws did

https://www.kregtool.com/webres/Files/KregJigHDForceTestSheet.pdf

Full disclosure; I don't work for Kreg, have no financial interest in Kreg, and only use their screws for rough cabinetry. I am impressed with how strong they are, though. Never had one break on installation, and have never had the screw fail in a joint.

I wouldn't hesitate to hang cabinets with any #14 screw of the appropriate length, (as long as it didn't come in an assortment from Harbor Freight...)

Of course, all of this discussion is around whether the OP can save $5 on a box of screws...

Christ man did I run over your dog or something?
I love kreg screws for what they are intended. You are correct on my wrong terminology - shear is what I was referring to.
Where did I get my info? I've used them. And I've hit them sideways while half screwed in and they don't bend they snap. At least the 2 inch cabinet ones I've used. Falling full cabinets could kill someone. I stand by my recommendation.

 

[PugetDude]

Christ man did I run over your dog or something?
I love kreg screws for what they are intended. You are correct on my wrong terminology - shear is what I was referring to.
Where did I get my info? I've used them. And I've hit them sideways while half screwed in and they don't bend they snap. At least the 2 inch cabinet ones I've used. Falling full cabinets could kill someone. I stand by my recommendation.

No, just checked; the dog is fine. Didn't realize you were in the neighborhood.

The OP is referring to #14 Heavy Duty Screws, not the little cabinet screws.

 

[chazzz]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/hom...the-screws-you-need-to-hang-kitchen-cabinets/

 

[Kaizen]

No, just checked; the dog is fine. Didn't realize you were in the neighborhood.

The OP is referring to #14 Heavy Duty Screws, not the little cabinet screws.

I should have read closer. I've never seen those as I only use the cabinet ones. I use kreg more as a clamp for the glue to set and have seen plenty of "tests" where a kreg joint with no glue pulled apart.

 

[cheechi]

an aside

most screws are brittle, means when you whack it too hard, or a flood or earthquake or whatever whacks it too hard, they break. Nails bend when you whack them too hard the wrong way. As your house settles, as your kids jump on the bed upstairs, as you put in a hot tub a little too heavy for the wall underneath it, all the nails that hold your house together bend instead of break so that hour house doesn't collapse in on you.

Structural screws are case hardened. Where code allows, some build houses with screws and don't nail anything at all. Again where code allows, some commercial buildings are done the same way. Many years ago I had to research all this in school for engineering. I'm not a builder or architect so I can't tell you where it's allowed now or even then but it's a thing.

also relevant

From the Kreg website:

Steel Kreg Screws are case hardened — a process forms a tough outer shell (or case) to make the screw tough, but keeps the core softer to prevent the screw from becoming brittle. That means you get the best of both worlds: a strong screw that won’t snap.