Insurance products for your detached structure?

[BoostedOne]

One of those things thats been in the back of my mind.. Getting further to the front with Irma on the way.
When I got my place, it had a certain amount for detached structures. Looking into this today, it seems like thats just the standard, up to 10% of total value..
My detached structures and contents are approaching that of the value of the current house.
Im sure many of you are in a similar situation, with a detached worth much more than 10% of your house. So is there an insurance product to cover a say 50K garage and contents with say a 150K house, without getting 500K worth of coverage?

 

[kd3pc]

best to speak with your agent.."product" is a stretch.

There are the normal, residential coverages - that will hit the basics, if you are lucky. Things like earthquake, tornado, rising water, falling water - but no wind, falling water with wind, etc, etc will require separate, more expensive riders to, or specific policies for.

Flood is totally a Federal product now, your "agent" is strictly an unrewarded, uncompensated paper pusher. IF you need flood, call today and get a hard copy that you are/will be covered. FEMA has extended to 120 days, "renewal" and reinstatement of coverage for those in Houston, no answer about new policy for FL.

A lot depends on what you are covering and what value they are, above "normal" - what ever that is.

Renters' coverage...as a landlord, I do NOT cover any contents of the tenant. Just property and loss of use/income and so on.

BLankets can be used for liability that can be assessed. Fire and theft rates often depend on nearness of FD/PD, hydrants, ponds, and so on.

COverage can be tailored to your needs, but you need an agent, not the internet, who is actually interested in doing so...else you get the big policy that does not cover YOUR needs.

 

[BoostedOne]

I do have flood insurance. I was forced to get it when I bought the place, however the maps were redrawn and the requirement came off, but for the cost I kept it. That said, I am not so worried about flooding. About 10 years ago Tropical Storm Fay came in and dumped 2 feet of rain on the area, flooding many many areas around me out. The cool thing is I was looking for property a year or two later, and you could tell by the water stains on trees and fence posts who went under and who didnt. Thankfully even though when we get a lot of rain and it does make the surface sloppy, my property and none of the houses around me had that kind of staining.
Worst case, if I got a few foot of water in the shop, i could deal with that... My bigger concern is the roofs getting ripped off and the walls blowing down in the high winds, and then everything inside getting ruined.

I'm also not super concerned about theft, due to location. Its rural, where most of the neighbors know to respect a cross a closed gate, and its also the type of place where your typical burger from the city is uncomfortable just being there.

Not even that concerned about fire. New building is metal roof with all Hardi product exterior, so a fire would have to start on the inside. Old building is metal roof with meal panels. Id put fire at a distant second to wind/storm damage.

I need to find an "agent" to talk to. Currently covered by one of the big companies that isnt even the actual insurance company. They are just a middle man

 

[6768rogues]

I raised the portion of my homeowners policy that covers outbuildings. No big deal, easily done for minimal cost.

 

[BoostedOne]

I raised the portion of my homeowners policy that covers outbuildings. No big deal, easily done for minimal cost.

To what percent of your main structure? From what i understand, most if not all only go to 10% of the main structure. IE, 200K house, 20K for garage/shop.

 

[vavet]

I bumped mine up to 15% of the value of my dwelling. I think it was $15/year.

 

[ard]

You call your agent. Tell him you want a higher value. Done.

You seem to be thinking that since the standard policy language is 10% that's all it can be. And are 'shopping' for a company with standard language that is higher?!?!

Call your agent. They do this ALL THE TIME.

ALSO, it might be too late for Irma: there may be a 'number of days in advance' criteria, or a 'once it is a noaa named storm' criteria whereby cpmpanies limit the effective date for chaninge immediately in advance of an impending disaster.

Still worth doing.

(FWIW- I set the value of my barn/shop at $225k, not a percentage.)

 

[yeldogt]

You have to be careful when using the words "standard" and "full coverage" when talking about insurance. Same with "replacement" ... all normal sounding words that will trip you up when buying insurance.

There are more then one type of "basic" coverage -- every company has various exclusions and limitations.

What people don't understand is that insurance companies, just like any other business has a target person (market) they are going after.

Like anything else -- there are good agents and not so good ... but, for most people even a bad one is better than buying direct w/no guidance.

It's amazing how many people will use a sale value for insurance -- replacement is often much more ... and if you have kids -- you need a better policy for outside living. What you are trying to do should be easy with most companies ... I will say that 150k is not much.

Remember, the insurance you are buying is not just to rebuild ... it's to clean and dispose also .. permits .. architect fees .. all kinds of additional costs.

 

[brent5631]

I bumped mine to 20%. As far as I'm aware contents are covered separately

 

[ard]

You have to be careful when using the words "standard" and "full coverage" when talking about insurance. Same with "replacement" ... all normal sounding words that will trip you up when buying insurance.

There are more then one type of "basic" coverage -- every company has various exclusions and limitations.

What people don't understand is that insurance companies, just like any other business has a target person (market) they are going after.

Like anything else -- there are good agents and not so good ... but, for most people even a bad one is better than buying direct w/no guidance.

It's amazing how many people will use a sale value for insurance -- replacement is often much more ... and if you have kids -- you need a better policy for outside living. What you are trying to do should be easy with most companies ... I will say that 150k is not much.

Remember, the insurance you are buying is not just to rebuild ... it's to clean and dispose also .. permits .. architect fees .. all kinds of additional costs.

Here in CA, the new building codes have much higher energy requirements (ie 'zero net'... meaning new homes basically must have solar), where I live, now residential sprinklers, and the newer electrical stuff.

This can be a massive cost increase when rebuilding. If you have 'replacement cost', the policy WILL NOT cover these added costs. So you need to have a policy that ALSO includes 'building code upgrade coverage'




Also, agents will run your home though a program that spits out a value based on square footage, and a 'A, B or C' level of interior finishes, plus maybe some other features. Many years ago, I was not happy with the value and wanted it increased. The agent had to come out and do a physical inspection to get to the rebuild/replace value we needed.

 

[BoostedOne]

Yeah, I am aware I may be out of luck as far as Irma. Pretty sure I am, from what I recall, its 7 days or soemthing.

I will give my current carrier a call and see what they say. Last time I talked to them was 2010, when I bought the place and I wanted to insure what was then only a pole barn for higher than the amount, but they said that was as high as they would go.

There is a state farm agent in the nearby town. Will give them a call as well and discuss options.

 

[BoostedOne]

Well, I just got off the phone with the lizard. One thing I did not realize is the personal property coverage covers property inside or outside of the main dwelling.. So all my welding machines, plasma, etc is not subject to the "unattached structures" limits. I am covered for replacement cost.
Cant make any changes til after Irma, but Im basically already max'd out on their policies. Only option with the lizard is to increase the whole policy value which they may do by 25%, but not till after the storm leaves the state. Good thing, short of totally blowing everything down(which is a very low chance unless I get a dead on hit), I will be OK with the coverage I got if it just blows off some panels or wall sections for now.

Still something I think is a good topic for discussion, as some of the detached garages on here are easily worth 50-60% of the house, and not pocket change either.

 

[6768rogues]

To what percent of your main structure? From what i understand, most if not all only go to 10% of the main structure. IE, 200K house, 20K for garage/shop.

I have a rider on my homeowners policy that covers $30K for my barn. The house is worth about $140k which is typical for our area. It cost me about $25K to build the building, so if it is lost I will build something else with the money. My investment is covered without making me insurance poor.

 

[DCarr2]

Here is something to think about, that is often overlooked by those of us who are 'special'

We fall into a unique, yet not well defined category. We have more tools than most contractors, a garage or shop, that most guys dream of, and yet are woefully under insured.

The problem arises with underwriters. they think that if you have the kind of tools and equipment that many of us have (mainly for personal use) that we are infact using those gadget to make money - ie a business.

The issue comes into play when it comes time for the cost of the policy...

For instance, at my old house, I carried $300K replacement value of the structure and its stuff... and $50K on the shop. to rebuild a 2500sqft concrete block bldg would cost more than 50K.

In order to insure my building and its contents for more, I would need to get into commercial insurance.

Never mind that the entirety of my business 'tools' are on my truck... and the rest are just 'toys'

The 'normal' person (you know the type - they hire an electrician to change a light bulb) doesnt have $20,40,50,100K in tools and equipment to 'play with'

I am not sure as to what my coverages are on my current shop but I think its 100K.

honestly, that wont even cover replacement of all the tools in there... forget the building.

 

[Kaizen]

Geez I just told my insurer I built a garage worth 40k and they added it to the detached. House is under 200k so don't know about the ten or twenty percent limit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DCarr2]

Contents are whats in it.

Structure is the building itself

Here is a BIG warning for everyone...

When you opt to 'up' your insurance for your shop. they will probably want to come look at it...

Remove all gas cans, gallons of acetone, lacquer thinner, ect... put compressed gas cylinders outside - covered, or hide them... anything - everything explosive or highly flammable remove or hide.

Most insurance companies have no problem insuring a home workshop... but most peoples work shops do not exceed the value of their house.

Make sure you have it stipulated in your policy that your out building, is insured for X, contents are insured for Y.

After all, if you live in a 200K house, and have a 2K sq ft pole barn full of tools, your not just parking your lawn tractor in there.

It needs to be insured for more than $20-40K.

up here in WNY, turn key buildings are running around 20/sq ft. not including air lines, extra wiring, ect..

Also, its important to take photos of your tools, and equipment periodically and upload them to the internet.... Maybe not public, but a private file dump so if anything happens you can say 'hey heres what that $500 tool used to look like.'

 

[2level]

A 25% increase on your whole policy value may meet your needs, BoostedOne, but like others have stated, shop around with an agent(s). Nothing wrong with lizards, but that little talking reptile hasn't been able to compete with my safe co policy -- 100+ on the shop structure, 200+ on the house, and 175+ personal property (replacement) runs me ~$250/yr.

 

[DCarr2]

The lizard wants nothing to do with me....

total insurance cost $2500/year for 2 m umbrella, 750K on both trucks, commercial liability for 500K. full coverage on my pick up...

500/500 on my house

 

[ard]

Here in California, where earthquake coverage is sparse AND expensive.... Ive told friends:

'First thing you do after an earthquake hits your house? Set it on fire.'

 

[yeldogt]

The insurance you have should be based on your needs ... Everybody thinks they can pull one over on the insurance company .. trust me .. they have everything covered. Speak to and agent and ask questions. Ask ... the what if this and that happens. How do they pay for this and that. How do I prove the value ?

Getting the correct company is important -- you will get the best insurance for the best price. Those with a trade and also a hobby that's related need to be careful so it's spelled out - adding the special parts to a policy is often surprisingly cheap. Vital when the big loss hits.

You can have replacement insurance .. well ---------read the fine print and make sure you are accurate in your value .. and remember -- many policies make you buy the item ... or you are back to 80% and fighting over the present value.

The vast majority never have a big claim - they really don't know much about the process or if they are with a good company. Most people never read the policy .. they brag about what a greta deal they are getting from a company they have never interacted with.

 

[yeldogt]

Here in CA, the new building codes have much higher energy requirements (ie 'zero net'... meaning new homes basically must have solar), where I live, now residential sprinklers, and the newer electrical stuff.

This can be a massive cost increase when rebuilding. If you have 'replacement cost', the policy WILL NOT cover these added costs. So you need to have a policy that ALSO includes 'building code upgrade coverage'




Also, agents will run your home though a program that spits out a value based on square footage, and a 'A, B or C' level of interior finishes, plus maybe some other features. Many years ago, I was not happy with the value and wanted it increased. The agent had to come out and do a physical inspection to get to the rebuild/replace value we needed.

My code upgrade costs exceeded 100k

 

[barnee]

I just a adjusted my insurance since I just tore down my crappy shed and building a new detached garage. I told them what it cost me to build and they didn't believe me, so I had to submit my construction contracts. They adjusted the value to match the build cost.

 

[ard]

I just a adjusted my insurance since I just tore down my crappy shed and building a new detached garage. I told them what it cost me to build and they didn't believe me, so I had to submit my construction contracts. They adjusted the value to match the build cost.

If there are ANY improvements or features not in that contract, document it.

I just ran a long video tour, commenting on construction features, methods, etc....

I did this for all my insured items. "Here's a Nikon D810 serial number, here is a case, here is a ...blah blah. Open drawers, cabinets. Everything..... Same thing in the shop. Tools, equipment, parts, even junk sounds good when describing it.

Don't rely on memory nor receipts (that might be lost in the loss)

Store the clips in the cloud, or wherever you keep digital stuff safe

 

[2level]

You can have replacement insurance .. well ---------read the fine print and make sure you are accurate in your value .. and remember -- many policies make you buy the item ... or you are back to 80% and fighting over the present value.

I'm under the impression that in order to receive actual new replacement value, most insurance policies make you buy the item; you'll only be getting the depreciated/current value (often under 25 cents on the dollar) for any items not replaced. And that a few, like Fireman's Fund Insurance, payout the new replacement value of items in cash, w/o requiring the policyholder to purchase the items.

Several years ago I got a quote for 'cash payout/no replacement necessary to receive the new value' (not sure what the correct industry lingo is) type of coverage, and it was very expensive -- not worth the cost, IMO.

 

[yeldogt]

I'm under the impression that in order to receive actual new replacement value, most insurance policies make you buy the item; you'll only be getting the depreciated/current value (often under 25 cents on the dollar) for any items not replaced. And that a few, like Fireman's Fund Insurance, payout the new replacement value of items in cash, w/o requiring the policyholder to purchase the items.

Several years ago I got a quote for 'cash payout/no replacement necessary to receive the new value' (not sure what the correct industry lingo is) type of coverage, and it was very expensive -- not worth the cost, IMO.

You are correct ... This is why I said above that insurance varies depending on company. Finding the correct fit is important. Example: If you went to Fireman's Fund and got a quote that was "too expensive" -- it it so because they are charging too much? Better coverage ? or maybe a bit of both. If you go to a company that does not normally offer a "cash out" contents policy, the cost to add something outside the "norm" is often very expensive .. if it's even possible.

Owning a business, more than one house (especially if in two states) -- lots of a single type of contents (tools) .. older luxury cars ... Land with outbuildings. All should make you ask questions about how a major claim is handled. Obviously -- wealthier people typically have more stuff .. and a combination of mentioned items.

My fire a few years ago was a nightmare -- even with great insurance through Chubb ..... it was slow ... stressful, never-ending. Having the cash out option on the contents made that part of the claim easy .. well ... easier.

 

[reader2580]

My insurance is a blanket policy meaning I am covered up to $780,000 for everything. Typically, detached structures are covered up to 10% of house value, but in my case no such limitation. I think my garage could be replaced for 10% right now, but not after solar panel installation.

I could get a policy that is $400 a year less, but I keep my policy because of the blanket coverage and because it covers collision and comp on rented/borrowed trailers with no deductible.

I currently have three commercial Groundsmaster mowers in my garage that my insurance company says they will replace with new in case of loss even though they are $20,000 new. I would settle for one new one if I lost all three. Two of them are up for sale.

 

[yeldogt]

My insurance is a blanket policy meaning I am covered up to $780,000 for everything. Typically, detached structures are covered up to 10% of house value, but in my case no such limitation. I think my garage could be replaced for 10% right now, but not after solar panel installation.

I could get a policy that is $400 a year less, but I keep my policy because of the blanket coverage and because it covers collision and comp on rented/borrowed trailers with no deductible.

I currently have three commercial Groundsmaster mowers in my garage that my insurance company says they will replace with new in case of loss even though they are $20,000 new. I would settle for one new one if I lost all three. Two of them are up for sale.

Blanket? read the fine print ...

 

[SMKS]

When we got our home insurance the agenct drove by to look at it and consider replacement cost. When I've gotten other quotes, I just described the building and dimensions and they figured it in.

 

[ard]

You are correct ... This is why I said above that insurance varies depending on company. Finding the correct fit is important. Example: If you went to Fireman's Fund and got a quote that was "too expensive" -- it it so because they are charging too much? Better coverage ? or maybe a bit of both. If you go to a company that does not normally offer a "cash out" contents policy, the cost to add something outside the "norm" is often very expensive .. if it's even possible.

Owning a business, more than one house (especially if in two states) -- lots of a single type of contents (tools) .. older luxury cars ... Land with outbuildings. All should make you ask questions about how a major claim is handled. Obviously -- wealthier people typically have more stuff .. and a combination of mentioned items.

My fire a few years ago was a nightmare -- even with great insurance through Chubb ..... it was slow ... stressful, never-ending. Having the cash out option on the contents made that part of the claim easy .. well ... easier.

So interesting. I was literally in the process, over the last 2 weeks, of evaluating my state farm coverage and was considering Chubb....

 

[yeldogt]

So interesting. I was literally in the process, over the last 2 weeks, of evaluating my state farm coverage and was considering Chubb....

I still have Chubb .... did not love everything about the process .. or some of the people. But, there is no one else that's a good fit.

Chubb spent 5k a month for almost 2 years to rent me a house -- hired companies to protect my art/ valuables for things I wanted saved (they came and made wooden boxes) .. all kinds of people went through he place. Hired a company from Boston to inventory everything in the house ... down to the toilet paper rolls in the closets. We haggled over a few items -- but they were very fair -- cut me a check. Chubb will spend more than an item is worth if you want it restored.

The problem was the house -- big and from the 1800's .. took forever. It was a big claim .. almost 2M

 

[BoostedOne]

Wow, hell of a discussion guys!
Since I started this, I had to run from the hurricane, and because of work and some things that have been going on, I have only been back twice. Long story short.

The good thing, is for this go round I ended up coming out ok. Only a few shingles were lost on the "house".

OK, heres the deal, and my dilemma. I bought my place mainly for the property(10 acres in an area without ******* neighbors in your business). Second reason was at the time, I was living in a typical suburban house, but renting a 1500sq ft shop to do my hobby work. This property had a 5 year old doublewide on it and a pole barn. Idea was I could live in the doublewide until I build a house(and impact fees/well/utilities existing so thats a plus), and I could enclose the pole barn and make it my shop, getting me out of $800 rent there.

After I got in here, the idea was to enclose the barn, then move to building a house(mostly myself if i felt up to it). However, since then I ran out of space two times in the barn, so I built a 40x40 garage between 2015 and 2016. The replacement cost of the garage alone is probably worth close to what the trailer is worth.

Replacement value on my wobbly box is only $70K. Contents insured to 31K. Unattached structures 6100$. pretty much the max's based on my "homes" value. I couldnt even begin to put together a value of the contents of my shop/garage. Paint booth, Miller MIG, Lincoln TIG, Hypertherm Plasma, professional spray guns, Hutchins sanders, Bendpak lift, two ****** jacks, etc etc etc.. I could hit 30K on my contents without even getting into car parts. I also assume cars I am building but are not insured with an automotive policy because they are unregistered and off the road would be covered by that as well. Thankfully except for the appliances, theres really not much in the "house" thats worth anything.

Since i am on agricultural land, and I do have cows, are is there an ag insurance? Its not uncommon for people who have agricultural property to have a meager house, but 100K worth of equipment?

Any recommendations on insurance companies to talk to? I do plan on building an actual house in the next year or two, but honestly even if its valued at 250K, Im still somewhat underinsured. Starting to figure my best bet is to redo my the walls of my polebarn shop and make it more of a fortress.

 

[rburke65]

A 25% increase on your whole policy value may meet your needs, BoostedOne, but like others have stated, shop around with an agent(s). Nothing wrong with lizards, but that little talking reptile hasn't been able to compete with my safe co policy -- 100+ on the shop structure, 200+ on the house, and 175+ personal property (replacement) runs me ~$250/yr.

Tell me....who is "my safe company"?.... I'm interested. Thanks

 

[Platonic Solid]

Tell me....who is "my safe company"?.... I'm interested. Thanks

The company name is "SafeCo". I had them for years covering everything - home, rental, auto. Then got a quote from AAA for better coverage and over $1000/yr less. YMMV

 

[JoeFin]

Simple - ask your insurance agent to stop by your home.

Mine came by (Farmers Ins.) I showed him the contents of my machine shop and had him value the contents at $100K. This is over and above the contents of the house. Additionally I gave him the plot plan of the permitted addition to the structure.

I also opted for the Current Building Code upgrade which was his idea because I had already upgraded much of the home.

Question in my mind is all the talk of rising sea levels.

I'm here in the Sacramento Valley just above the 100 year Flood plane. I mean just above - like 2 blocks.

They have been upgrading the levees in then area but that is a double edged sword. Meaning if and when the levees do break the flood waters can be even higher. Believe me I've seen it. When the Feather River levee broke, they had to go break the Bear River levee to let the water out.

 

[BoostedOne]

Thanks Joe. Once I get back and everything is normal, Farmers was on my short list to talk to. Also probably talk to State Farm. So you don't have business class insurance, just basically an agreed value policy of sorts? If so, thats awesome, and something I was thinking wasnt possible at this point.

Yes, levees and reservoirs have their risks too, ask the people in Houston.. Much of the lower regions flooded bad with Harvey a month ago, but many of the higher(relatively speaking) ares were spared.. Then the reserviors were getting so full they had to release the water and it ended up flooding many of the neighborhoods that the storm didnt flood.

 

[2level]

The company name is "SafeCo". I had them for years covering everything - home, rental, auto. Then got a quote from AAA for better coverage and over $1000/yr less. YMMV

Yes, Safeco - a Liberty Mutual Co. Their quotes for 'everything' didn't work for me either. I currently purchase 3 of 7 policies from them.

OP, as far as recommendations go, here's mine: 1) Shop them "all". 2) Be patient and organized.

Insurance shopping is time consuming. Deductible options, coverage details, and of course, cost, varies from company to company. A lot of brokers prefer to do business by phone, so you have to be prepared to take notes and ask follow-up questions later. In my experience, agents/brokers like to avoid giving details by text or email. And "online insurance Co." products are short of detail/options - prepackaged stuff, often overpriced.

Many agents try to steer customers into low deductible/higher cost policies. (Bigger commissions? And probably a good idea, if you don't normally have savings/investments to self-insure a higher deductible, and if you can afford the premium). Some insurance companies require agents/brokers to sell only their products/policies, while others allow agents to sell policies from multiple insurance companies. So, if you want to get a good comparison among companies, you'll need to contact multiple agents. Try to 'equalize' policies, then factor in policy differences, before signing up.

 

[yeldogt]

Just remember everybody -- You can't just increase your coverage without understanding what they will pay. Most all the mass market company policies have sub-limits. You have to ask specific questions. Having a 100k policy is great .. until you find out that "tools" caps at 5k .. and you can't get the 5k unless you buy the same tool .. so you get a check for 4K