Rheem Tankless Water Heater

[jim1450]

I have a Rheem rte 13 http://www.rheem.com/product/point-of-use-tankless-electric-rte-13
Looking @ the table it says use # 6 with a 60 amp breaker but the whip that came pre wired to it is labeled Romex 10, it's 2 conductor with a ground.
I've had other small cheap electric tankless heaters before & you can run them for a long time.

Can anyone explain the #10 ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a Rheem rte 13 http://www.rheem.com/product/point-of-use-tankless-electric-rte-13
Looking @ the table it says use # 6 with a 60 amp breaker but the whip that came pre wired to it is labeled Romex 10, it's 2 conductor with a ground.
I've had other small cheap electric tankless heaters before & you can run them for a long time.

Can anyone explain the #10 ?

Did you buy this new?

NM aka Romex isnt the proper wire to use for a whip.

 

[jim1450]

Did you buy this new?

NM aka Romex isnt the proper wire to use for a whip.

Bought it new from Amazon, other 2 ebay heaters I had were wired different.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003UHUSGQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Sorry about picture size

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Bought it new from Amazon, other 2 ebay heaters I had were wired different.

Can you post a pic.

Who was the seller?

 

[jim1450]

Can you post a pic.

Who was the seller?

Amazon, I usually try to get it from them even if they're a little more.

 

[jim1450]

Opened up, funny the mounting holes are all blocked by the chambers.

 

[rockwithjason]

It might be a returned item. that whip looks janky.

 

[MrSurly]

It looks like the wire is labeled #6 2 cdr with a #10 ground wire. And it's NM-B and stranded and with a solid ground wire. Weird.
So, yeah it is legit, if unusual.

However, depending on where and how it's mounted, the NM-B may not be the proper type of wire as it must be protected if not inside a wall, etc
(As Wylie said)

 

[mm08822]

It might be a returned item. that whip looks janky.

I think so too. Website indicates it comes with a 2' cord. The pic has a cable and the rx con is installed bass ackwards.

I would confirm the wattage of the unit (from nameplate) and wire according to that.

Unless of course they shipped a 3kw unit instead of 13.

You can always remove the cable and add your own cord with plug.

 

[barbedwireleather]

As an electrician I have not installed a unit that came w/cord. I would send it back if you are not sure[emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jim1450]

Thanks
It's been sitting in my basement for a few years & I never got around to using it but since I'm getting a new barn built I thought I should.

After looking closer @ the whip it's #8 with a 10 ground, tag on it says 54 amps.
It's not as bad as I 1st thought but #8 seems small for something that could run for an extended period of time.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Bought it new from Amazon, other 2 ebay heaters I had were wired different.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003UHUSGQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Sorry about picture size

yeah thats not 10/2 NM-b since the jacket is black and the wire stranded.

It is either #8 or #6....

It might be a returned item. that whip looks janky.

Agreed.

A manu. wouldnt use the wrong wire on a listed appliance.

It looks like the wire is labeled #6 2 cdr with a #10 ground wire. And it's NM-B and stranded and with a solid ground wire. Weird.
So, yeah it is legit, if unusual.

Not weird.

#6 and #8 NM-b comes with stranded hot and neutral conductors and solid ground wire.

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheetOEM10

However, depending on where and how it's mounted, the NM-B may not be the proper type of wire as it must be protected if not inside a wall, etc
(As Wylie said)

NM-b can be ran outside of a wall as long as its not subject to pysical damage.

The proper wire for this equipment is cordage.

Thanks
It's been sitting in my basement for a few years & I never got around to using it but since I'm getting a new barn built I thought I should.

After looking closer @ the whip it's #8 with a 10 ground, tag on it says 54 amps.

It's not as bad as I 1st thought but #8 seems small for something that could run for an extended period of time.

NM-b wire is limited to 60* ampacities, so #8 NM-b is limited to 40a.

I agree with the others. Some previous buyer returned it and for whatever reason didnt have the original factory cord so they put a scrap piece of NM-b on it.

I would remove it and get, at minimum, some 6/3 SOOW cordage which is rated 55a.

Im not sure if the cordage would need to be upsized for continuous loading. If it does, you would need some 4/3 SOOW.

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet282

It will need to be hardwired as well.

A better idea is to call Rheem and see if they can tell you what gauge cord comes with the unit from the factory.

 

[jim1450]

yeah thats not 10/2 NM-b since the jacket is black and the wire stranded.

It is either #8 or #6....





NM-b wire is limited to 60* ampacities, so #8 NM-b is limited to 40a.

I agree with the others. Some previous buyer returned it and for whatever reason didnt have the original factory cord so they put a scrap piece of NM-b on it.

I would remove it and get, at minimum, some 6/3 SOOW cordage which is rated 55a.

Im not sure if the cordage would need to be upsized for continuous loading. If it does, you would need some 4/3 SOOW.

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet282

It will need to be hardwired as well.

A better idea is to call Rheem and see if they can tell you what gauge cord comes with the unit from the factory.

Thanks again, plan on calling Rheem tomorrow.
Was a brand new unit, I bought plenty of stuff from Amazon Warehouse deals but not this & I believe if it was a return they would sell it as open box through warehouse.
Guess they could've mistakenly used the Romex from a RTE9 on my 13
The whip is too short anyway so I'll get a longer piece of #6 & connect it to the 100 amp sub panel.

I still have my last ebay heater from my old house along with the nm cable was on a 60 amp breaker, I'll have to look but it should be 6/2 with a ground.

Thanks everyone, I'll update tomorrow after I call Rheem

 

[MrSurly]

The weird bit is that the picture is from amazon as in "sold like this"

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The weird bit is that the picture is from amazon as in "sold like this"

yeah thats strange,

#8/2 NM is definitely too small for 54a.

 

[jim1450]

I emailed Rheem on Wed night, reply had the manual attached & a phone # to call.
I called the tech support & got transferred a few times & was told by the last clueless rep I talked that he had to put me on hold & check on it, I waited a long time & finally hung up.

I'll get a 6' piece 6/2 & run it from the heater terminals directly into the 100 amp sub in my basement.

I live in a rural part of north central OH & have a propane furnace, the only other thing that runs on propane is my older water heater so for now this will see limited use.

 

[AP514]

I had a buddy run one of these keep tripp'n the C/B..come to find out the water line into it was not higher than the unit it self No real head pressure. he ended up replumbing his water lines going into the unit.

you have Propane --use a Boche Gas unit way more efficient.....
I have 2 gas units in my house have been running for over 14 years.
1 runs off it's own Impeller so if power goes out I still have hot showers...

 

[American Locomotive]

Depends on what you mean by "efficient". Electric tankless heaters are usually around 100% efficient.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Depends on what you mean by "efficient". Electric tankless heaters are usually around 100% efficient.

Except there is more energy in a therm of gas than a kilowatt of electricity.

Out here in cali, where elec prices are through the roof and NG prices are cheap, its far more cost efficient to use natural gas for heating than elec.

I dont know about LPG, as its a bit more pricey than NG.

 

[jim1450]

Except there is more energy in a therm of gas than a kilowatt of electricity.

Out here in cali, where elec prices are through the roof and NG prices are cheap, its far more cost efficient to use natural gas for heating than elec.

I dont know about LPG, as its a bit more pricey than NG.

A few winters ago propane was 2.5 times what it is now & was hard to get, I was running low & was worried about running out so I turned down the temp of my heat pump compressor lockout.
I own my own 500 gal tank, they normally will only put 400 gal in it but the min fill is 250, if I do 250 in the spring there's not enough room for another 250 until it gets cold & I start using it so the price goes up.
I figure with the heat pump & tankless water heater I can better manage my propane usage if I need to.

 

[American Locomotive]

Except there is more energy in a therm of gas than a kilowatt of electricity.

Out here in cali, where elec prices are through the roof and NG prices are cheap, its far more cost efficient to use natural gas for heating than elec.

I dont know about LPG, as its a bit more pricey than NG.

Cost efficiency is a whole different thing than efficiency

 

[sberry]

I agree, electric is about 100 percent.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Cost efficiency is a whole different thing than efficiency

true.

But they are often confused and thats why i posted what i did.

And it Doesnt matter if something is 100% efficient if it costs more to use it...

 

[dw1]

I ordered this water heater for my barn:
https://marey.com/english/products/electric-water-heater/whole-house/eco-150.html

It also comes from the factory with a # 10 -2' whip and says to use #6 on a 2 pole 70 amp breaker?? not much in the code book about on demand WH?
Max amp 60.2 amps but still don't see # 6 making the cut

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I ordered this water heater for my barn:
https://marey.com/english/products/electric-water-heater/whole-house/eco-150.html

It also comes from the factory with a # 10 -2' whip and says to use #6 on a 2 pole 70 amp breaker?? not much in the code book about on demand WH?
Max amp 60.2 amps but still don't see # 6 making the cut

what is the temp rating on the wire?

 

[dw1]

what is the temp rating on the wire?

I'll see if I can find it tomorrow (I don't throw anything away), trying to stuff 2400 sq ft house items in 1500 sq ft barn, have to be out of house next weekend.

 

[jim1450]

I don't understand some of the things manufacturers do.
Besides the water heater my Everlast 140 mig welder came with a 15 amp plug, #12 wire cord & instructions say to use a 30 amp breaker.
They said there's something in the NEC about welders & start up draw.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I don't understand some of the things manufacturers do.
Besides the water heater my Everlast 140 mig welder came with a 15 amp plug, #12 wire cord & instructions say to use a 30 amp breaker.
They said there's something in the NEC about welders & start up draw.

Well welders are easy to explain.

Most of them have limited draw based on duty cycle.

Code allows reduced wire size based on that duty cycle.

http://www.ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-45

 

[sberry]

Everlast likely uses a 12 due to many of the other machines in the lineup require it and they can take it off the same spool. Lincoln uses 14 on these, I think Miller and Hobart may too.

 

[jim1450]

....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

....

Looks like input amps is 19.5a

 

[jim1450]

Looks like input amps is 19.5a

Instructions say use a 30 amp breaker.
1 of the reasons I bought it is the 25% duty cycle @ full power, most of the other units I looked @ were dual voltage but multiprocess & since I already have the 210 EXT I just went with the 120 volt 140

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Instructions say use a 30 amp breaker.
1 of the reasons I bought it is the 25% duty cycle @ full power, most of the other units I looked @ were dual voltage but multiprocess & since I already have the 210 EXT I just went with the 120 volt 140

Thats due to the inrush current rating...

 

[jim1450]

Thats due to the inrush current rating...

That's how it was explained to me but there's still a 20 amp circuit with a 30 amp breaker.
I bought a commercial 20 amp outlet & #10 wire
I guess my ***** is the way it's designed someone could have an older garage with #14 wire & stick a 30 amp breaker in the circuit because of the vague instructions.

I bet it'll run longer than 2 1/2 minutes @ 140 amps, from what I've heard Everlast will run longer than the advertised duty cycle.

 

[59 wagon man]

just so you are aware this heater is made by Niagara manufacturing in Miami. they make the titan brand tankless heater. if yo go to there shop you will see the rheem unit right next to the titan and they are almost identical except for the different color cover. by removing the cover you broke the seal probably and they are not usually warrantyable even if they were new. The instructions clearly state do not open cover. the whip is how they come,i've put in dozens of these and carry them on my truck all the time. very expensive way to heat water but since usually they don't run much it can still save you some money. usually the electrician will mount a junction box within the length of the whip and then we can connect them easily if you open the cover and change the whip as previously stated you void the warranty and make a changeout a pain

 

[jim1450]

just so you are aware this heater is made by Niagara manufacturing in Miami. they make the titan brand tankless heater. if yo go to there shop you will see the rheem unit right next to the titan and they are almost identical except for the different color cover. by removing the cover you broke the seal probably and they are not usually warrantyable even if they were new. The instructions clearly state do not open cover. the whip is how they come,i've put in dozens of these and carry them on my truck all the time. very expensive way to heat water but since usually they don't run much it can still save you some money. usually the electrician will mount a junction box within the length of the whip and then we can connect them easily if you open the cover and change the whip as previously stated you void the warranty and make a changeout a pain

Mine is a few years out of warranty & I'm mounting it 4" from a subpanel so I'm not going to use 2 short pieces of romex.
When it dies I won't replace it with another Rheem ot Titan

The other units I've had say if being used with a tank style mount it before but I've mounted them after because the water is room temperature so it works less, I'm in north central OH & the unit probably isn't recommended for use here.

I'd like to hear their explanation of #10 Romex & 60 amp breaker