Wilton 450SJ Swivel Jaw. Horizontal Pin ???

[Mohawk Dave]

Hey all,

Picked up a Wilton 450SJ. Dated 6-30-60

EDIT: Answered in Post 18.

What is the design/use of the horizontal pin? There seems to be no reason for it. There is a small screw in the end, like maybe for a small chain chained to something? It does not contact the vertical pin. It has nothing to do with the swivel.

You can see the vertical hole is drilled and goes below the horizontal pin space, but I don't see how this would assist in the manufacturing process either.

Looking at other 450SJ vises on the internet, I think I see there is cast nubs and no pin. But since frikin Photobucket went **** up, I can't open the photos to zoom in.

Any ideas?

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Cleaned up real nice. More yellow than I thought there was.

 

[G-ManBart]

I can't answer the question, but your dog sure it cute!

I've had two 9A450SJs and neither had that large horizontal pin. They both had a depression on the left side where yours has a hole, and nothing on the right side in that area.

 

[Bobioz1]

Mine just has a depression in that area too. I've seen pics of a chain between that pin and the removable pin. So it doesn't get lost I guess.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Mine just has a depression in that area too. I've seen pics of a chain between that pin and the removable pin. So it doesn't get lost I guess.

Ok, I see what looks like a broke off screw in the vertical pin. So, in the case of my vise, the 2 pins could be hooked together, but as they both come out, you could plausibly loose 2 instead of just 1.

It seems like a lot of extra manufacturing for nothing. Which is maybe why they changed the design, but I am yet to be convinced.

 

[Bobioz1]

Does the tapered pin fit in the horizontal hole? Would be a good place to store it when your swiveling.

 

[G-ManBart]

It seems like a lot of extra manufacturing for nothing. Which is maybe why they changed the design, but I am yet to be convinced.

The two 450SJ I had were separated by 15 years and they looked identical. The restored vise had a typo on the slide date stamp, but is 1960 at the newest (likely older). The unrestored vise has a 1975 date stamp.

I'd bet a paycheck yours was modified. I've seen many pictures of 450SJs and not a single one has had a pin there, and they've all had the depression. I don't believe there was any sort of design change along the lines you're suggesting.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Does the tapered pin fit in the horizontal hole? Would be a good place to store it when your swiveling.

Nope. The horizontal is much larger and is not tapered. Just has a chamfered end.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

The two 450SJ I had were separated by 15 years and they looked identical.

I'd bet a paycheck yours was modified. I've seen many pictures of 450SJs and not a single one has had a pin there, and they've all had the depression. I don't believe there was any sort of design change along the lines you're suggesting.

Possibly, but it really looks stock.

Also, the Safety Yellow paint appears to be original. I can't recall seeing any real old Wiltons in Safety Yellow. You guys?

 

[G-ManBart]

Possibly, but it really looks stock.

Also, the Safety Yellow paint appears to be original. I can't recall seeing any real old Wiltons in Safety Yellow. You guys?

I added to my last post. I've had vises that were 15 years apart, that bracketed yours, and they look the same as every other 450SJ I've seen pictures of. It's hard to imagine they would have changed to add a completely non-functional design element, then got rid of it, in that time frame.

As far as original paint goes, the only time you can really be sure the paint is original is if it's on the body of the vise, and the back edge of the jaws. I'm not sure the exact method, but Wilton painted vises with the jaws in place. I've documented this a number of times from vises of this era.

There is an unlikely chance Wilton made a run of safety yellow SJs with an unnecessary pin for a particular customer, but that's pretty far-fetched. Swivel jaw vises aren't the kind of thing you'd need safety yellow paint on, much less a special pin retainer plug thingy. Barring finding a second vise with the same horizontal pin, it's more likely a good machinist added that pin and hole...not exactly a tall task for a machinist.

After doing a little digging, someone else has posted a vise with the same pin....https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2331146&postcount=30

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Agreed on all accounts, G-ManBart.

Does the hex screw at the top of the swivel jaw have right or left hand threads. I've got ATF/Acetone soak for a day, Evaporust for a day, and using a hand hammer impact and it will not budge. And I will not keep forcing it of course. I'll keep soaking etc, just want to make sure it is not left hand....

Also, does the Hex set screw into the side stay put? Because right now the jaw won't swivel with the set screw in, but if the top vertical hex screw is seized with the inside round rotator, then I obviously need to "unstuck" that thing.

 

[autopts]

Its possible the top pin might only lift out once that horizontal is removed. The side pin might fit thru a groove on the bottom of the vertical pin locking it so that it won't come out. I had a similar set up on a American scale 79 swivel.

 

[G-ManBart]

Okay, so I would have lost a paycheck!

A friend is a swivel jaw collector and he sent me this catalog scan a while back which shows a 450SJ with the horizontal pin.

It's interesting because the machinist and combination vises are a later style with the recessed collar, more square/flat dynamic jaw shape, larger base etc, which came about in the mid to late 1970s. The 450SJ picture is of the older style with the more rounded dynamic, exposed collar, etc.

As with many things Wilton and dates, there's really no way to know for sure. Clearly it's in the catalog, and we've seen two examples like this now, so it was a factory setup, but the vast majority of the SJs we see see just have the dimple in that position. I can't imagine why vises that were older and newer date stamps just have the dimple and these two have an extra pin, but I doubt we'll ever know why!

 

[G-ManBart]

Agreed on all accounts, G-ManBart.

Does the hex screw at the top of the swivel jaw have right or left hand threads. I've got ATF/Acetone soak for a day, Evaporust for a day, and using a hand hammer impact and it will not budge. And I will not keep forcing it of course. I'll keep soaking etc, just want to make sure it is not left hand....

Also, does the Hex set screw into the side stay put? Because right now the jaw won't swivel with the set screw in, but if the top vertical hex screw is seized with the inside round rotator, then I obviously need to "unstuck" that thing.

The hex screw on the top has regular right-hand threads, so it probably just needs more soak time.

If you remove the set screw, the entire swivel jaw, and barrel can be removed from the body of the vise. I had to do that with the one I restored because the pin was stuck. I just used a block of wood and a hammer to tap it free. At that point you can get ATF/Acetone to the underside of the screw holding the jaw to the barrel (if that makes sense).

 

[Iconoclast]

Mine has a depression but no horizontal pin

 

[Zeus36]

Check posts #30 and #54 from member Hannibal Hector with the same dual pin swivel jaw vise back in May of 2012:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150579&page=2

He says the horizontal pin has a notch the vertical pin fits into. There is a chain connecting the two pins.

BTW: I am cleaning up a 450SJ and it has the set screw and depression on the side. No horizontal pin. The jaw swivels 360 degrees. The slide is marked: warranty expires 1968.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Thanks everyone. I have it all apart except for the round section that is stuck to the bottom of the swivel jaw (the round section sits inside the main static housing.) I have the top hex screw removed, and now soaking the swivel jaw w/ stuck round section...making slow progress.

And my vertical pin does not touch the horizontal pin. The Horizontal pin does not have a "cut out" for the vertical pin to set into either as others have mentioned. And I'm quite certain it is stock, as the screw and part of the chain is still attached to it. So, IDK...but it won't affect anything...

 

[Mohawk Dave]

ANSWERED....from the vise thread. Horizontal pin is to be used as a drift to push the vertical pin up and release the wedge friction. Thanks Fierljeppen!

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8163457&postcount=75942