DPDT center-off switch wiring question for use as a transfer switch

[timsch]

Hello all.

I have a 240V circuit powering my submersible well pump that I want to add a Leviton 1288 DPDT switch to which would act as a transfer switch between the existing circuit and a new circuit I want to add for running a 5500W homebrew boil kettle. I don't have enough spare capacity in my panel to run another dedicated 240V circuit.

I've attached the wiring diagram from the Leviton website. This diagram matches the one that came with the switch, but with less detail. Both Line 1 & 2 are hot. Ground is shown, but neutral is not on either diagram. So, my question is what to do with the neutral wires. Do I connect the two neutral wires from both circuits with the neutral going to the panel with a wire nut in the same junction box I'll be putting the switch in?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[mm08822]

Are sure either load has neutral?

 

[Shiftless]

Have you considered the advantages of feeding a new sub panel from your main? You would then be able to wire up your well pump to a breaker in that sub panel. Then wire up your kettle circuit to another breaker in that sub panel, and have a couple of extra spaces to run convenience outlets, more lighting, etc. in the future.

 

[timsch]

Are sure either load has neutral?

I am planning on an electric brewing setup that will require 3-wire with ground, so while the 5500W heating element doesn't need it, the system will in the future.

The pump is running without a neutral. So, my question should have been better worded. I would like to know the answer to my now hypothetical question.

So, if I have two hots, a neutral and ground coming from the panel, do I just make my hot & ground connections at the switch and run the neutral past the switch into my brewery setup, with that neutral never being switched regardless of whether the power is going to the pump or the brewery?

Regarding the sub-panel suggestion, If I were to do that, I'd still possibly overpower the panel if the sub were running both circuits at once. Space in my main panel is not the issue, the amp rating is.

 

[mm08822]

I am planning on an electric brewing setup that will require 3-wire with ground, so while the 5500W heating element doesn't need it, the system will in the future.

The pump is running without a neutral. So, my question should have been better worded. I would like to know the answer to my now hypothetical question.

So, if I have two hots, a neutral and ground coming from the panel, do I just make my hot & ground connections at the switch and run the neutral past the switch into my brewery setup, with that neutral never being switched regardless of whether the power is going to the pump or the brewery?

Regarding the sub-panel suggestion, If I were to do that, I'd still possibly overpower the panel if the sub were running both circuits at once. Space in my main panel is not the issue, the amp rating is.

I don't see any issue doing that.

The brewery unit requires a 30A ckt. Is that what you currently have?

 

[timsch]

Yes, it is a 30A circuit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Neutrals should NEVER be switched unless the corresponding hot conductors are swithed at the same time!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Neutrals should NEVER be switched unless the corresponding hot conductors are swithed at the same time!

Concur, but this is a 240V circuit so there is no neutral.

The diagram you showed had 2 motors, which is not your case. The motor leads should be connected to the two "common" connections (typically the center, left and right). L1 and L2 from the panel go to the top pair of connections. L1 and L2 from the generator go to the bottom pair.

VERIFY ALL OF THIS WITH AN OHM METER BEFORE POWERING UP.

This is a schematic of what I was trying to say. I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE PHYSICAL CONNECTIONS ACTUALLY ARE ON THAT SWITCH !



Now someone smarter than I (Wylie) will have to comment on how to ground this. (In theory, the generator should be bonded in the main panel.)


If you were using a generator interlock to feed your main panel THIS WOULD BE A NON_ISSUE !!!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Concur, but this is a 240V circuit so there is no neutral.

The OP asked about neutrals.

The diagram you showed had 2 motors, which is not your case. The motor leads should be connected to the two "common" connections (typically the center, left and right). L1 and L2 from the panel go to the top pair of connections. L1 and L2 from the generator go to the bottom pair.

VERIFY ALL OF THIS WITH AN OHM METER BEFORE POWERING UP.

This is a schematic of what I was trying to say. I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE PHYSICAL CONNECTIONS ACTUALLY ARE ON THAT SWITCH !



Now someone smarter than I (Wylie) will have to comment on how to ground this. (In theory, the generator should be bonded in the main panel.)


If you were using a generator interlock to feed your main panel THIS WOULD BE A NON_ISSUE !!!

What diagram? I didnt post any diagram.

And Im not sure why you brought up generators as a generator was never mentioned in this thread.

 

[timsch]

My ignorance is the reason for both this thread and the confusion in this thread. Let me rephrase my question.

I currently have a 3-wire with ground 240V cable running to a well pump. The 3rd wire has been cut at a junction box away from the main breaker box, making it a 2-wire circuit w/ ground at the pump. I want to insert a Leviton 1288 center off DPDT switch into this circuit to branch off an alternate circuit for an electric brewery setup that will require a 3-wire w/ ground circuit, so the neutral will be going from the main breaker box through the switch junction box and on to the electric brewery.

Regarding the correct way to wire this branch, should I have the two hots and grounds connected to the switch, while the neutral bypasses the switch and goes directly to the brewery?

There are no motors, those are just in the schematic that Leviton has on its site with this switch.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Forgot to ask this earlier.

Whats the HP rating on the well pump?

 

[timsch]

I don't remember the HP rating for the submersible pump. At least 1, but maybe a bit more.

 

[MikeF2316]

My ignorance is the reason for both this thread and the confusion in this thread. Let me rephrase my question.

I currently have a 3-wire with ground 240V cable running to a well pump. The 3rd wire has been cut at a junction box away from the main breaker box, making it a 2-wire circuit w/ ground at the pump. I want to insert a Leviton 1288 center off DPDT switch into this circuit to branch off an alternate circuit for an electric brewery setup that will require a 3-wire w/ ground circuit, so the neutral will be going from the main breaker box through the switch junction box and on to the electric brewery.

Regarding the correct way to wire this branch, should I have the two hots and grounds connected to the switch, while the neutral bypasses the switch and goes directly to the brewery?

There are no motors, those are just in the schematic that Leviton has on its site with this switch.

Thanks again for the help.

Almost always, in house wiring, neutrals stay connected all the time. It's how I'd do what you're trying to do.

 

[timsch]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I currently have a 3-wire with ground 240V cable running to a well pump. The 3rd wire has been cut at a junction box away from the main breaker box, making it a 2-wire circuit w/ ground at the pump. I want to insert a Leviton 1288 center off DPDT switch into this circuit to branch off an alternate circuit for an electric brewery setup that will require a 3-wire w/ ground circuit, so the neutral will be going from the main breaker box through the switch junction box and on to the electric brewery.

For discussion, lets assume that the switch you are going to install is at the current junction box where the neutral is cut. Use the wiring schematic that is provided ...

The 2 items marked M are your two loads.

Just splice the incoming neutral to the outgoing neutral on the 3 wire feed to your brewery equipment.

Regarding the correct way to wire this branch, should I have the two (incoming line) hots and grounds connected to the switch, while the neutral bypasses the switch and goes directly to the brewery?

Yes, the 2 hots are called Line 1 and Line 2 in the picture.

Yes, all grounds should be connect inside that box. The neutral is NOT switched. Because the pump is 240V only (2 wire) the neutral is is only spliced to the 3 wire feed to your brewery equipment.


If that junction box is NOT a convenient place for your switch, locate your new switch box (it should be large enough to to accommodate 8 wires, plus 3 grounds). Run new 12/3 from the junction box to the new switch. The rest is as previously described.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

For discussion, lets assume that the switch you are going to install is at the current junction box where the neutral is cut. Use the wiring schematic that is provided ...

The 2 items marked M are your two loads.

Just splice the incoming neutral to the outgoing neutral on the 3 wire feed to your brewery equipment.

Yes, the 2 hots are called Line 1 and Line 2 in the picture.

Yes, all grounds should be connect inside that box. The neutral is NOT switched. Because the pump is 240V only (2 wire) the neutral is is only spliced to the 3 wire feed to your brewery equipment.

If that junction box is NOT a convenient place for your switch, locate your new switch box (it should be large enough to to accommodate 8 wires, plus 3 grounds). Run new 12/3 from the junction box to the new switch. The rest is as previously described.

Wire would need to be 10/3 because its a 30a circuit.

 

[mm08822]

OP, I sketched this for you but never posted it as I planned to re-sketch for better clarity.

Here it is as is......maybe too late now.

View attachment Screen Shot 10-02-17 at 9.07 AM.pdf

 

[theoldwizard1]

Wire would need to be 10/3 because its a 30a circuit.

I don't remember the HP rating for the submersible pump. At least 1, but maybe a bit more.

For a 30A circuit 10/3 is (of course) CORRECT ! Overkill for that pump.

 

[theoldwizard1]

OP, I sketched this for you but never posted it as I planned to re-sketch for better clarity.

Why do you have 10/3 running to the pump at all when it is a 240V load and are showing that the neutral and ground should be connected at the pump motor ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

For a 30A circuit 10/3 is (of course) CORRECT ! Overkill for that pump.

Dont know how you can say its overkill for the pump when we dont know what size motor it is.

 

[Thumper68]

I am planning on an electric brewing setup that will require 3-wire with ground, so while the 5500W heating element doesn't need it, the system will in the future.

The pump is running without a neutral. So, my question should have been better worded. I would like to know the answer to my now hypothetical question.

So, if I have two hots, a neutral and ground coming from the panel, do I just make my hot & ground connections at the switch and run the neutral past the switch into my brewery setup, with that neutral never being switched regardless of whether the power is going to the pump or the brewery?

Regarding the sub-panel suggestion, If I were to do that, I'd still possibly overpower the panel if the sub were running both circuits at once. Space in my main panel is not the issue, the amp rating is.

I had to go back and re read this just to make sure I read it right the first time.

So the issue is not that you do not have space for a new circuit for your brew pot it is that you think you will draw to much from the panel if the pump and pot are on at the same time?

If that is the case I would not worry and run the new circuit from the main panel and skip the switch. What is the rating of your panel?

 

[mm08822]

Why do you have 10/3 running to the pump at all when it is a 240V load and are showing that the neutral and ground should be connected at the pump motor ?

B/c I understood it as the OP already had 10-3 going to the pump.

My sloppy sketch shows a wirenut capping off the neutral at the pump enclosure, meaning unused. The ground would be connected to any ground terminal in the pump cotroller, etc.

If he was running new cable, then of course 10-2 is only needed to the pump.