Blackhawk gurus - what do I have here?

[Rileysan]

Blackhawk gurus - what do I have here? 7/16" drive socket set

I posted this in the garage sale thread but thought it need its own thread here.

These sockets came from a $1 table at a swap meet I attended Saturday, 9/30.

I had to dig for a good 30 minutes to find all of these sockets on that table and I hope I didn't leave any behind. My first thought was "these look odd" but I couldn't put my finger on it. Other than the locking pins, the only other thing that stuck out to me was that every socket had a patent # on it. Who goes through that much trouble to stamp a socket with that much information?!?

As I was cleaning them up this morning, I learned what it was I was missing. This set is 7/16" drive! This is the first time I've ever come across 7/16" drive tools of any type. I have work to do to learn exactly what I have here, but now I'm happy to have spent $1/ea.

The front row are 8-pt sockets and back row are 12-pt sockets.

All sockets are marked with the following:

- "Blackhawk"
- "Made in USA"
- "US Pat's. 1927844 Re. 19287"
- Model #
- Sizes: 3/8" to 1"

Note: I accidentally left two deep sockets from this set out of the picture.


Brian

 

[6PTsocket]

I posted this in the garage sale thread but thought it need its own thread here.

These sockets came from a $1 table at a swap meet I attended Saturday, 9/30.

I had to dig for a good 30 minutes to find all of these sockets on that table and I hope I didn't leave any behind. My first thought was "these look odd" but I couldn't put my finger on it. Other than the locking pins, the only other thing that stuck out to me was that every socket had a patent # on it. Who goes through that much trouble to stamp a socket with that much information?!?

As I was cleaning them up this morning, I learned what it was I was missing. This set is 7/16" drive! This is the first time I've ever come across 7/16" drive tools of any type. I have work to do to learn exactly what I have here, but now I'm happy to have spent $1/ea.

The front row are 8-pt sockets and back row are 12-pt sockets.

All sockets are marked with the following:

- "Blackhawk"
- "Made in USA"
- "US Pat's. 1927844 Re. 19287"
- Model #
- Sizes: 3/8" to 1"

Note: I accidentally left a 1/2" deep socket from this set out of the picture.


Brian

Question. Do you have a 7/16 drive ratchet or know where to get one or are they just for display as a rare item.

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[Rileysan]

Re: Blackhawk gurus - 7/16" drive socket set!

Question. Do you have a 7/16 drive ratchet or know where to get one or are they just for display as a rare item.

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I do not have a 7/16" drive ratchet, nor do I intend to look for one. I will purchase items I think are uncommon or rare if they are cheap enough and since I'm not a Blackhawk collector, these are available for trade. I know Twertsy has expressed interest in Blackhawk items in the past and I assume there are other's who might be interested.

Note: I'm going to take the good camera out to the shop this evening and get better pictures.

Brian

 

[thehorse13]

BlackHawk was always looking to innovate. The 7/16 drive was their attempt to sell you on the idea that the 7/16th set is all you will ever need. You would have the best of the 1/2 and 3/8ths world all in one.

There are 7/16 drive ratchets out there. Twertsy should be along shortly with more info than I have.

Btw, a dollar a piece is, "you ****", pricing.

 

[r_olson_06]

Blackhawk is the only one that I have ever seen that makes 7/16 square drive. Very nice find.

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[twertsy]

Re: Blackhawk gurus - 7/16" drive socket set!

I do not have a 7/16" drive ratchet, nor do I intend to look for one. I will purchase items I think are uncommon or rare if they are cheap enough and since I'm not a Blackhawk collector, these are available for trade. I know Twertsy has expressed interest in Blackhawk items in the past and I assume there are other's who might be interested.

Note: I'm going to take the good camera out to the shop this evening and get better pictures.

Brian

Ding Ding........you're ringing my bell! I'm missing only a couple pieces to my set.

There should be a date code on those, either 38-41 or 47 to about 55. They had to stop making Hexite" tools during the war years.
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[r_olson_06]

Re: Blackhawk gurus - 7/16" drive socket set!

I do not have a 7/16" drive ratchet, nor do I intend to look for one. I will purchase items I think are uncommon or rare if they are cheap enough and since I'm not a Blackhawk collector, these are available for trade. I know Twertsy has expressed interest in Blackhawk items in the past and I assume there are other's who might be interested.

Note: I'm going to take the good camera out to the shop this evening and get better pictures.

Brian

What do you collect? I would be interested in a trade after Todd of course.

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[Rileysan]

I spent a little time with the good camera and this socket set and I think those interested in these will be pleased.

Here's what I have:

- #35132 1" socket, date code: "2"
- #35130 15/16" socket, no date code.

According to AA, edited by me to specify this exact socket as opposed to the one pictured by AA

"This socket isn't marked with a date code, and shows some other differences when compared with the others. In particular, the socket is somewhat longer, and has a slightly larger diameter base. With the help of some recently acquired additional examples, these differences can now be understood and have a simple explanation.

This socket is apparently one of the first generation of 7/16-drive tools, and the base has a larger diameter in order to leave the walls thick enough for the release button. Blackhawk hadn't yet developed the insertable retaining sleeves of patent #2,190,081, and therefore had to maintain some minimum base diameter for the button. The larger base diameter in turn meant that the socket had to be longer, so that the broached end could still reach into tight places."

- #35128 7/8" socket, date code "9"
- #35126 13/16" socket, date code "8"
- #35124 3/4" socket, date code "9"
- No 11/16" socket
- #35120 5/8" socket, date code "9"
- #35119 19/32" socket, date code "7"
- No 9/16" socket
- No 1/2" socket
- #35114 7/16" socket, date code "2"
- #35114 7/16" socket, date code "7" - missing release button
- No 3/8" socket
- #35110 5/16" socket, date code "7" - missing release button

8-pt sockets:

- #35220 5/8" 8-pt socket, date code "8"
- #35218 9/16" 8-pt socket, date code "7"
- #35216 1/2" 8-pt socket, date code "7"

Deep Sockets:

- #35332 1" deep socket, date code "7"
- #35316 1/2" deep socket, with unique "U.S. Pat's. 2190081 RE.19,287" date code "0". Missing release button

According to AA,

"Sockets in the smaller sizes (9/16 and under) needed an insertable sleeve to retain the release button, due to the narrow base of sockets made in 1938 and later"

For this reason, this socket had a different patent.

Extension:

- #39990 10" extension, date code "8"

And the pièce de résistance:

- 39974 1/2" to 7/16" drive adapter, date code "1".

AA has no information on this tool on their spreadsheet of 7/16" tools as they have no example to work with. They also incorrectly call it a 7/16" to 1/2" adapter, when it is, in fact, the opposite. That, or my understanding of such things is opposite. I'll step out on a limb here and call this one rare.

I had forgotten about this piece as well as the extension because I set them aside thinking they were 1/2" drive tools.

Edit: I figured out how to separate the adapter from the socket. It hadn't occurred to me that the drive tool doesn't have a spring loaded ball bearing, it has a spring loaded rod. The release pin on the socket is required to push that rod back into the drive tool in order to release the socket.


Brian

 

[Rileysan]

Second set of pictures showing a different angle.

Brian

 

[Rileysan]

And yet another angle.

Brian

 

[Rileysan]

Re: Blackhawk gurus - 7/16" drive socket set!

What do you collect? I would be interested in a trade after Todd of course.

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I collect vintage Craftsman (am especially fond of BE or circle-H) tools, S-K, Plomb/Penens/Fleet/P&C. I would be interested in something I don't already have which, surprisingly, is a lot of things. Send me a PM trade offers.

Brian

 

[thehorse13]

Have a look at the 1939 BlackHawk catalog. You'll find your sockets in there. I would upload a copy but it will certainly exceed the file size limit.

Twertsy has a copy on his tool site. You can see it there for sure.

 

[leg17]

- #35114 7/16" socket, date code "2"

- #35216 1/2" 8-pt socket, date code "7"

I would like these two if possible.
Could trade a couple of P&C100 stubby DBE wrenches.
Or?......

 

[tool_scrounge]

Here is a picture of my 39997 7/16-Drive Free-Wheeling (gearless) Ratchet. The 8 in the last picture means it was made in 1948 I believe. Very nice condition and works well - probably because I and all the previous owners did not have 7/16" sockets! I really like the feel in the hand of this ratchet.

 

[ssdave]

I bought one of those sets a few months ago, thought it was 3/8" until someone here clued me in on the odd size. Luckily, someone one here wanted it and it went to them.

Here's the thread I had on it:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361901

 

[notlob]

Blackhawk Nuggets

From 1939 BH catalog:

Here are some of mine: