VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[tjdux]

tjdux, To do it right in my opinion is to have access to a machine shop. I bought a American Scale with the handle and handle support missing and just by looking at my pictures you can see how I did mine. It takes careful measurement's and possibly more machining on the vise to create flat areas for the collar and a area for the large handle support to rotate on. You want the backlash to a minimum.

Note how I machined two flats on the threaded spindle and matched the same shape in the handle support. It will be to hard to match your same hole but possible.

Welding is another possibility. If welding I would use a very strong filler rod like Eutectic 680 TIG rod since you have no idea what Asia used for the spindle material. This filler rod was made for dissimilar metals and has a very strong tensile strength.

In my opinion I would find another vise but if you are looking for a fun project like I did on this A-Scale then go for it. Good Luck.

Hey thanks that's an amazing job you did on that vice. Sadly i don't have access to a machine shop so anything i make will not even be in the same class as what you have done here. Excellent job. I do like the idea of grinding flats for the rod instead of trying to use the pin hole on the one i have.

I do have a buddy with an old bridgeport but he's pretty skiddish to let us use it (I dont blame him) and he is far to busy (je says lol) to favors. I may have to bring him some brews and see what can be done. Otherwise it's back to the drawing board. I do have a crazy idea about welding something up that wont look pretty but may get the job done. Either way, its not gonna be in the same class as yours but like you said, considering its a cheap import why even bother. So if i can get it rolling for 10-15 bucks being pretty hardly matters.

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[Outlawmws]

The handle was probably held on with a roll pin. If your buddy can't find the original, I think you have parts...

 

[Fretters]

Easy enough to make a new one, and you can drill through for a pin in a different spot, if you can't align with the original pin hole. You could even thread the end of the screw and tap the replacement knob, for extra hold. Functional is functional.

 

[tjdux]

The handle was probably held on with a roll pin. If your buddy can't find the original, I think you have parts...

That's true. I do have some spares.

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[tjdux]

Easy enough to make a new one, and you can drill through for a pin in a different spot, if you can't align with the original pin hole. You could even thread the end of the screw and tap the replacement knob, for extra hold. Functional is functional.

That's my plan b right now. A little steel bar stock, some welding, and a grade 8 bolt and it will work for less than $20 more in it. Not gonna be pretty but it will work.

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[G-ManBart]

I'l, go by whats is on their MSDS, not what their Marketing Hype says.

The MSDS doesn't say it's toxic. It simply gives directions if it's ingested or gets in your eyes. Many non-toxic products are dangerous if ingested or get in your eyes. At some level almost any chemical/compound is toxic. It's really not that complicated.

 

[Outlawmws]

If its not toxic they would not be inducing vomiting... It's really not that complicated...

 

[G-ManBart]

If its not toxic they would not be inducing vomiting... It's really not that complicated...

The MSDS sheet for Dove Soap says to seek medical attention if it comes in contact with your skin and lists it as a toxic substance according to OSHA standards. Too bad so many folks were tricked by the marketing hype and bought it to bathe when it's really a dangerous, toxic substance.

I guess it must be complicated for some people.

Virtually anything can be toxic at a certain level, but that doesn't mean they're remotely unsafe if you're not completely foolish and drink them or pour them in your eyes. I'm pretty sure vanilla extract can kill you too....

 

[tjdux]

The MSDS sheet for Dove Soap says to seek medical attention if it comes in contact with your skin and lists it as a toxic substance according to OSHA standards. Too bad so many folks were tricked by the marketing hype and bought it to bathe when it's really a dangerous, toxic substance.

I guess it must be complicated for some people.

Virtually anything can be toxic at a certain level, but that doesn't mean they're remotely unsafe if you're not completely foolish and drink them or pour them in your eyes. I'm pretty sure vanilla extract can kill you too....

Too much salt will kill you, massive amounts quickly and more than needed amounts over many years.

Heck people have died from drinking water too fast, loke 4-6 gallons in an hour and it washes all the electrolights from your body and go into shock. Zink, iron... The list goes on. But we need all that stuff to live too.

But there's a huge difference between serious chemicals, ridiculous portions, and eating a pallet of hand soap.

Im not trying to get into this argument but maybe to each their own.

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[va.grouseman]

Everything in moderation, water, salt, potassium, alcohol, OxyContin, arsenic, cyanide, etc.

 

[G-ManBart]

But there's a huge difference between serious chemicals, ridiculous portions, and eating a pallet of hand soap.

That's pretty much been my point. Evapo-Rust is very safe barring some really dumb behavior. You can get it on your skin and it won't do anything, it won't even stain concrete, much less harm it....etc, etc.

I wouldn't drink it, but that goes for virtually any liquid in my shop save for the stuff in the fridge.

 

[Outlawmws]

The MSDS sheet for Dove Soap says to seek medical attention if it comes in contact with your skin and lists it as a toxic substance according to OSHA standards. Too bad so many folks were tricked by the marketing hype and bought it to bathe when it's really a dangerous, toxic substance.

I guess it must be complicated for some people.

Virtually anything can be toxic at a certain level, but that doesn't mean they're remotely unsafe if you're not completely foolish and drink them or pour them in your eyes. I'm pretty sure vanilla extract can kill you too....

Now you are taking things out of context. I note you didn't bother to quote the whole thing, or even key disclosures, so for full disclosure:

I guess it must be complicated for some people.

 

[tjdux]

Now you are taking things out of context. I note you didn't bother to quote the whole thing, or even key disclosures, so for full disclosure:

I guess it must be complicated for some people.

Wow. Thats meme worthy... you could be reddit gold right there...

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[BMR24]

I recently picked up this vise and have some work to do on it, and am looking for some input.
starting with the mainscrew, someone has drilled holes into it i assume to try to retain the collar, but the holes are way to big so who knows what they were doing.

I am thinking i should fill these holes back in, but the only method i can think of is to fill the holes by either welding or brazing, and then file the excess to get the screw shank back to round. if i do this, do any of you recommend any specific rods to use? mig, tig, arc, or braze?
I'd also like to make sure that the mainscrew isn't heat treated or something that would make it better to just leave this alone.

 

[drivesitfar]

BMR: since it's not visable when the vise is put back together i might tend to leave it be unless it is causing some issues with the performance with your vise.

i'm not a welder, but i seem to recall nickel rod or some #'s quoted when filling in holes so maybe one of the welders will see your post.

is that the vise that i thought might be a FULTON? any more information on the maker and if you want to post up a few more pictures here some of the guys that see and post on this thread don't always see the big vise thread posts that are several pages sometimes daily.

ALL: don't drink your cleaning supplies!! it might not be harmful, just as Coke or Soda isn't HARMFUL, but what the heck causes Alzeimer's? also if it smells bad you should probably wear a mask.

hope you all have a great weekend while i finish up some outside chores before we get another 6 months of rain here in paradise (or the PNW).

cheers

 

[GETRIDAONE]

BRM If the hole in the collar and one of the holes in the shaft line up and the backlash is minimal, drill collar hole and tap for a new slightly larger set screw that would file the hole in the shaft.

 

[BMR24]

BMR: since it's not visable when the vise is put back together i might tend to leave it be unless it is causing some issues with the performance with your vise.

i'm not a welder, but i seem to recall nickel rod or some #'s quoted when filling in holes so maybe one of the welders will see your post.

is that the vise that i thought might be a FULTON? any more information on the maker and if you want to post up a few more pictures here some of the guys that see and post on this thread don't always see the big vise thread posts that are several pages sometimes daily.

cheers

Yep, it's the same one, and it seems to function fine, those holes are just kinda deep and there are a few of them all in the same area giving me concern that the shank could shear off if the vise were ever used by a motivated idiot.
View attachment 689068

View attachment 689069


I'll upload more photos when I get to my computer

 

[BMR24]

here are some more photos.









it almost looks like there is an ink stamp of some sort of number code in the channel of the jaw, has anyone come across this before?
if anyone has any deas of who made this vise id apreciate any input. So far the theories are Fulton, Prentiss, and Rock Island.
i put it on my refrigerant scale and it weighs 60 pounds, 4 ounces
there is lots of work to do on this vise but it'll be a good one when im done

 

[BMR24]

BRM If the hole in the collar and one of the holes in the shaft line up and the backlash is minimal, drill collar hole and tap for a new slightly larger set screw that would file the hole in the shaft.

ill see of there are any holes that line up properly, but i think that all of them are about 1/2"-1" too far back

 

[drivesitfar]

BMR: whoever made that vise made it to last and guessing it's probably almost if not more than 100 years old now. any history on it or did it just show up?

I think you mentioned the jaw screws are 2 inches apart. yes?

i'm going to be near a few of my Fulton vises tomorrow and i'll see if i can remember to measure a couple of mine.

cheers and good luck with your spiffing up. also sounds like you've been to Kevin's or bought some of his stuff so a missing jaw shouldn't be an issue if you can't make one yourself.

 

[BMR24]

BMR: whoever made that vise made it to last and guessing it's probably almost if not more than 100 years old now. any history on it or did it just show up?

I think you mentioned the jaw screws are 2 inches apart. yes?

i'm going to be near a few of my Fulton vises tomorrow and i'll see if i can remember to measure a couple of mine.

cheers and good luck with your spiffing up. also sounds like you've been to Kevin's or bought some of his stuff so a missing jaw shouldn't be an issue if you can't make one yourself.

I'm not sure about the history, all I know is I responded to an add about a reed vise that this second hand tool place was selling and this one was there too. I was looking this one over too and the seller offered me a deal if I took them both. I wasn't planning on buying two but I'm very glad that I did. I need some material for the reed so I've been focusing on this one for the time being. The screw holes were just a few thousandths past 2" apart. I sure appreciate your looking.

 

[mike_paxton]

Picked up a pair of vises this weekend, with one being a Hollands No. 25 bench vise with 4 inch jaws, 6" max opening and 45 pounds.

Was warned by previous owner that one of the vises had a problem, but took chance anyway.

Both cleaned up well and other one went together easlily, but the Hollands 25 collar when set screw is fully set, catches inside wall when turning. Does not matter if actually engaged in nut or not.

It also looks like someone drilled through the bulb on outside handle, as seen in pics 6 & 7.

Feel free to give me some advise, as I'd like to get this one up and running again.

Mike

 

[KMScott]

Mike, sounds like the collar ID hole is to large and causes the collar after tightening to be out of round. The ID of the collar should be a close fit. Maybe check that first before you might have to make a new collar. I am sure you checked that the set screw is flush with the collar or it would hit. Everything looks tight in there.

The pin in the meatball looks like how they installed the handle support. American Scale on some of there models does this instead of friction welding like most vise builders did or someone repaired your spindle.

 

[mike_paxton]

Mike, sounds like the collar ID hole is to large and causes the collar after tightening to be out of round. The ID of the collar should be a close fit. Maybe check that first before you might have to make a new collar. I am sure you checked that the set screw is flush with the collar or it would hit. Everything looks tight in there.

The pin in the meatball looks like how they installed the handle support. American Scale on some of there models does this instead of friction welding like most vise builders did or someone repaired your spindle.

KMScott:

What you said makes great sense about the collar ID.

Did make sure that set screw was recessed when working with it yesterday, but with collar ID gap, the set screw was making the collar just enough out-of-round to scrape the interior when handle was rotated

Thanks for your help.

Mike

 

[G-ManBart]

Now you are taking things out of context. I note you didn't bother to quote the whole thing, or even key disclosures, so for full disclosure:

I guess it must be complicated for some people.

Wow...now you're posting stuff that supports my claim all along. Thanks, and I'm glad it finally came together for you!

Something can be considered dangerous/unhealthy in one context, and not another. Just because an MSDS says something is toxic doesn't mean it's generally dangerous in normal use.

Dove Soap MSDS says it's toxic. Evapo-Rust MSDS says it's toxic. Neither one will cause you any harm in normal use.

 

[G-ManBart]

Both cleaned up well and other one went together easlily, but the Hollands 25 collar when set screw is fully set, catches inside wall when turning. Does not matter if actually engaged in nut or not.

You may try installing the collar with the other end forward. Frequently the hole for the set screw isn't actually centered front to back in the collar and installing it one way makes it too loose/tight. At the very least, it's an easy thing to try.

 

[Outlawmws]

Wow...now you're posting stuff that supports my claim all along. Thanks, and I'm glad it finally came together for you!

Something can be considered dangerous/unhealthy in one context, and not another. Just because an MSDS says something is toxic doesn't mean it's generally dangerous in normal use.

Dove Soap MSDS says it's toxic. Evapo-Rust MSDS says it's toxic. Neither one will cause you any harm in normal use.

No, nothing I said supported your cause.

While your point may be valid as a general observation, it's not in this case.

Go READ the Evaporust MSDS and tell us WHERE it is even similar to the one for Dove application wise. Bottom line it's TOXIC if ingested. Period. While it may be environmentally friendly and non-toxic if dumped in the drain, its toxic if dumped in your stomach... You yourself admitted earlier that you would never drink it. If its so safe...

Admittedly no one is likely to drink the stuff in normal use. But animals and small children HAVE been known to drink things they shouldn't if you have a tub out and open, and either of the above are around, it's not safe. Accidental ingestion could happen other ways.

So claiming its perfectly safe to have around is wrong.

I handle Lead routinely I also wash my hands after I'm done and again before eating anything...

The Dove scenario on the other hand; WHERE would the average user ever have access to a huge vat large enough to fall into? That scenario is at the factory, and that is the application area for that MSDS. That's where your comparison falls short.

 

[454ragtop]

Can you guys agree to disagree and end this pissin contest?

 

[drivesitfar]

BMR: sorry i thought i had my Fulton vises where i could find them, but saw this LMV vise that was maybe a vise Fulton designed when working there before he made his Fulton vise company. anyway the yellow Fulton was on a table another local GJ member owns that is missing the jaws and it's a 130+ pound vise, but maybe you can see some similar type handle and jaws to yours?

the blue LMV i own has 3 inch gap (approx.) between the jaw screws on the 4 inch vise and as you can see the handle is different and the retaining nut or sleeve to hold the screw on the dynamic jaw.

i'll keep trying to find my other Fulton vises or maybe another member has one on a shelf in his shop to measure and post up some pictures.

keep up the good search and i agree you should have brought that vise home with you cause no matter who made it it's a keeper.

cheers

 

[Outlawmws]

Can you guys agree to disagree and end this pissin contest?

I'm fine with that.

 

[mike_paxton]

You may try installing the collar with the other end forward. Frequently the hole for the set screw isn't actually centered front to back in the collar and installing it one way makes it too loose/tight. At the very least, it's an easy thing to try.

G-ManBart:

I'll give that "flip" a try and thks for the suggestion.

Mike

 

[BMR24]

Drives thank you for looking, that Fulton sure does look similar to mine. I'm not sure if it's visible in the photos, but the swivel nut is very close to the vise body. Maby 1/8" of clearance, not sure if that gives any clues or not. Now I'm trying to remove the static jaw, but it's surprisingly soft and has "mushroomed" around the recessed screw heads. I'm in the process of trying to chisel the mushrooming away from the screws so that the heads will clear. I'd rather not, but I might have to grind away the mushroomed steel and just really try to avoid hitting the screws

 

[drivesitfar]

BMR: i'm not 100% positive i'm hearing you correctly or if this is the fix, but when a number of members have issues with screw heads on their jaws they simply drill the heads off the screws either with an old hand drill or slowly with a power drill. then the jaws pop off and they take vise (or mole if English) grips and turn the stubs out with them.

take pics and ask questions if you need any help cause a lot of these members have skills they'd love to share if you might have an issue. also some of the tips and tricks they mention are good for all of us even if we'd already heard them before.

good luck

 

[BMR24]

Thank you Drives! That sounds like a much better solution. I'll give it a try next time I get a chance to work on it.
Here is a photo of what I was trying to explain

Sorry it's a little dark

 

[BMR24]

Here's another one, also a little dark

 

[drivesitfar]

BMR: i probably have great pictures of some member's doing what I mentioned, but those are in a half dead computer that i still have to get on to my new laptop.

i think you'll have an easier time drilling the heads off the old screws since you probably don't want to save them. another method is to get one of those impact screwdrivers on the heads and hit with a hammer, but i'd prefer to do the drilling.

bear in mind the screw heads might have an angle on them so start with a bit smaller bit than the size of the head showing so you don't drill into the jaw.

good luck

 

[akasrick]

mike_paxton wrote
***

a Hollands No. 25 bench vise

...

Did you happen to get your main nut out of the vise?

The Hollands here has something, under the part # and to the right, that could be an H, a four leaf clover or even a tulip inside a rounded box.
As usual a terrible picture, but something there.

akasrick

looks to be something on a Reed main nut also, same mark.

...and just to be complete a picture off of eBay of an Erie pipe vise,
not to be confused with the "ERIE" skillets.
Someone in that area and time did a fair amount of work.

akasrick

 

[Fretters]

As DIF mentioned, I drill the heads. Centre punch first, then go with a drill the same diameter as the threads. I use a hand powered drill so that I can feel if I hit the insert.

 

[mike_paxton]

mike_paxton wrote
***...

Did you happen to get your main nut out of the vise?

The Hollands here has something, under the part # and to the right, that could be an H, a four leaf clover or even a tulip inside a rounded box.
As usual a terrible picture, but something there.

akasrick

akasrick:

I didn't pull the nut on the Hollands 25 yet.

However, when I took the main screw out, the place where the collar sits down underneath the slide, there is an "X" on one side of the bottom that looks similar to a mark used on a map for a treasure hunt.

Mike

 

[akasrick]

akasrick:

, there is an "X" on one side of the bottom that looks similar to a mark used on a map for a treasure hunt.

Mike

I don't see that but this one has only been degreased and simple greened once each. I think it's bleeding grease.

akasrick