Outlets right side up or upside down?

[Number22]

Here's a good article from Wikipedia on the matter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#Non-locking_connectors

NEMA non-locking connectors all use blades of various flat and folded shapes (except for the round pins used on grounding connectors) and the plugs can be detached from the receptacles by pulling back on the plug body. The connector families have been designed so that grounding connectors for 120 V and 208/240 V cannot be accidentally intermated.

NEMA wall receptacles can be found installed in any orientation. Neither NEMA or the U.S. National Electrical Code nor the Canadian Electrical Code specify a preferred orientation, and different orientations may be found in the same building. However, the orientation with the ground pin on the bottom is the most common, which places the neutral pin on the upper left and the hot pin on the upper right. All descriptions below assume this orientation.

 

[JohnFreeman]

I like to put the ground UP, so if anything falls and happens to get between the plug and the wall it'll hit the ground first.

 

[7echo]

These are all upside wrong, or right, 'pendin on your opinion...

: )

 

[nate379]

When my Dad first wired the house in the 80s he put them all ground up, since then as they have remodeled the rooms they have all been switched to ground down.

 

[DB2]

We manufacture consumer electrical products, and our cords are oriented with the ground down. When a person pulls a cord from an outlet, they generally put their index finger on the bottom side and thumb on the top. People "look at" or "feel for" the top of the cord, and keep their finger on the top side clear of the outlet. Often, though, they will let the finger on the bottom slip towards the outlet, particularly if they are reaching somewhere they can't see and are "wiggling" the cord out. If the blades are on the bottom, they risk bridging the blades and getting shocked if the plug isn't clear of the outlet.

I learned this from a product liability insurance guy...there is a way higher chance of this scenario than having a piece of sheet metal fall down between the plug and the outlet.

 

[1Garageman]

why don't you update this message and make it into a vote. Ground down, Ground up, or don't give a damn

All I vote for ground down.

 

[Tool Pants]

Now 1/2 of you have me scared. I still own the property that my electrician friend and I wired the garage 14 years ago. The one where the exterior outlet for the lawn mower has the ground up. There are tenants there now and they mowe the lawn with my old electric lawn mower. Now I am afraid they are going to shove something between the plug and outlet, and sue me.

Thank god there is a weatherproof cover over the outlet that hinges up, so there is no way something can fall between the plug and outlets. But tenants sometimes do funny things.

 

[[email protected]]

I was recently talking to an electrician about this and he had two points to support ground up orientation. The first is what has already been mentioned about stuff falling across the terminals. Not real likely, but it's possible. The second actually makes a lot of sense. When the ground is down, it looks like a face, which children are drawn towards and curious of. When the ground is up it just looks likes holes.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

We manufacture consumer electrical products, and our cords are oriented with the ground down. When a person pulls a cord from an outlet, they generally put their index finger on the bottom side and thumb on the top. People "look at" or "feel for" the top of the cord, and keep their finger on the top side clear of the outlet. Often, though, they will let the finger on the bottom slip towards the outlet, particularly if they are reaching somewhere they can't see and are "wiggling" the cord out. If the blades are on the bottom, they risk bridging the blades and getting shocked if the plug isn't clear of the outlet.

I learned this from a product liability insurance guy...there is a way higher chance of this scenario than having a piece of sheet metal fall down between the plug and the outlet.

I agree with this on all points. I have noticed the finger underneath does tend to end up on the ground prong. For me, its easier to insert the plug with the ground down.

If you don't want the plastic broken out around the ground pin, don't yank the plug, or buy nylon faced receptacles. I know Leviton and Hubble make them. Flat faced, no recesses to help guide you in plugging them in, but the nylon won't break easily. About doubles the price of the receptacle however.

Charles

 

[D.J.]

Mine are ground down or monkey faced and yes it happens a coat hanger ( metal) fell down behind a dresser and grounded out against both spades and tripped the breaker and burnt the piss out of the front of the outlet. So yes virginia there is a Santa Claus and it does occasionaly happen. Just my $ .02

________
BUY NO2 VAPORIZER

 

[Number22]

The second actually makes a lot of sense. When the ground is down, it looks like a face, which children are drawn towards and curious of. When the ground is up it just looks likes holes.

The latest NEC code requires the new "tamper resistant" type outlets in places like bedrooms and such. (can't remember exactly where) These outlets block the slots unless a plug is inserted into the hot/neutral sides correctly.

 

[VHF]

Mine are ground down or monkey faced and yes it happens a coat hanger ( metal) fell down behind a dresser and grounded out against both spades and tripped the breaker...

Most things plugged in behind a dresser are two-prong, so a ground-up orientation wouldn't offer any benefit as far as catching falling metal things in the typical residential bedroom environment. And if the plug is properly inserted into the socket there shouldn't be any exposed spades!

 

[Jack90210]

The latest NEC code requires the new "tamper resistant" type outlets in places like bedrooms and such. (can't remember exactly where) These outlets block the slots unless a plug is inserted into the hot/neutral sides correctly.

It's not required here yet, but I've been installing TR receps (with a GFCI at the start of every circuit) in my home to soothe my wife wrt her concerns about our 10-month-old.

 

[ironroad 9c1]

Growing up in N.C. and being in new construction as a late teen everyone i seen was ground down, wasn't until I got to Virginia when i joined the Navy that i seen anyone instll one ground up. It just looks wrong.

 

[1stwarrior95]

Except....the pull test....

Take a plug and pull down on the cord.....you will tend to find that when the ground lead is up, it pulls out a little easier...with it down, not quite as easy....

Ground down here.
Reasons;
1. Looks right
2. Agree with ddawg's pull test.
3. Ground should be towards the "ground" (Down)

 

[Number22]

It's not required here yet, but I've been installing TR receps (with a GFCI at the start of every circuit) in my home to soothe my wife wrt her concerns about our 10-month-old.

In another 20-50 years we're probably going to see an increase in accidental shocks...since nobody learns the hard way as a kid anymore.

Come on...sticking a penny in a socket is part of growing up!

 

[Kevin54]

Quote:Originally Posted by Costner
So he dropped a shovel and it just so happened to find the 1/8th inch gap of exposed prongs and stabbed into the plug with enough force to contact both the hot and the neutral leads at the exact same moment that your father was in contact with the shovel itself (which is odd considering you said he dropped it) and the breaker failed to trip and the shovel must have had a solid steel shaft and handle since wood and fiberglass wouldn't conduct electricity and the receptacle must have been 220V or higher in order to be capable of "knocking him on his ***" and forcing you to make a statement like he is "lucky to be alive"???

Yea - I'm raising the BS flag on this one. If you want to install your receptacles ground up by all means have at it, but no need to make up stories to justify your opinion.



You should know what you are talking about before you accuse someone of dishonesty.
1.If the shovel had made contact with both the hot and neutral blades the shovel would have been at roughly zero volts, resulting in little or no shock.
2.Breakers need to be over-current to trip, if human contact is made only with the hot lead there would not be enough current to trip the breaker. The resistivity of human skill is too high to draw the required 15 amps.

If you would like to demonstrate the falsehood of these points, you could do so by taking a nice 100% humidity day in the summer standing in your garage with one leg touching a grounded object and putting a screwdriver into the hot side of a 110v outlet. You can tell us how well you do.

The non-technical circumstances of the event are probable, as a falling shovel blade is capable of knocking a plug loose of an outlet, and a diligent car guy generally tries to catch things that are about to fall against their hot rod. He just happened to go for the metal part.

60 ma across your heart is enough to cause a ventricular fibrillation, where your heart no longer pumps blood as your heart muscles contract erratically. 110vac is totally capable of providing such a condition, and it's lethality is well documented. http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_case_...ery/index.html Apparently about half of all electrical fatalities are the result of low-voltage contact, but the statistics are hard to find that differentiate the two contact voltages.

If you desire to be a skeptic, I encourage you to do so. But a real skeptic asks questions and uses reason and logic, and he doesn't accuse people of dishonesty without facts to back up his position. To learn more about being skeptical, try skeptic magazine, www.skeptic.com Micheal Shermer is a great editor, and the baloney detection kit is great way to detect baloney.

Wow!! I guess I sure as hell ain't gonna call BS

 

[hidollartoys]

Cant wait for the NEC and the government to decide that electricity in our homes and businesses is just to dangerous and outlaws it. Maybe they will develope the "Division of Electrical Police".

You cant possibly engineer out the stupid, lazy, inept, ludicrocus and irrational from our lives. No matter how "safe" a system is designed someone, somewhere will breach the system. The more you dumb down a solution those associated with it will stoop to meet the challange.

 

[1stwarrior95]

The non-technical circumstances of the event are probable, as a falling shovel blade is capable of knocking a plug loose of an outlet, and a diligent car guy generally tries to catch things that are about to fall against their hot rod. He just happened to go for the metal part.

Wow!! I guess I sure as hell ain't gonna call BS

Well then, I will!
Alright, maybe not total BS, but I'd say a good stretch of the real deal.
.
Based purely on the first sentence in four-thirteen's quote. Actually just the one word blows it out of the water. That word; probable. While it may be possible it sure isn't probable!

While a falling shovel blade would be capable of knocking a plug loose, what's the odds of it getting in that 1/4" gap to contact the "prongs"?
There's alot better chance that said dropped shovel hit the cord itself and cut through the insulation to contact the wire or wires.

Why would a guy grab for the base, (metal), of the shovel when he almost had to be in the standing position to drop the shovel in the first place? (Again possible, but not probable)

Change that one word to possible instead of probable and I'd agree with ya wholeheartedly. LOL

The more you dumb down a solution those associated with it will stoop to meet the challange.

Very true hidollar!
But then again, if they would quit dumbing down the solution and force people to either learn or face the consequences, that in itself is the solution.
May not be a pretty solution, but it is the only true solution...

 

[1stwarrior95]

All this over what has already been said. Up or down, left or right, it's just your opinion, how ya wanna do it. LOL

 

[ddawg16]

Maybe this will help....

The wife and I were flying back from DC on Sat....sitting up in 1st....good view of the galley.....and I noticed some 110 Vac outlets....

Ground is up.....

 

[koditten]

Mine are all ground post up. I have metal trim plates around my plugs. I have pulled a plug out and excedently contacted the two line posts on the metal trim plate. I burnt the hell out of the trim plate as well as filled my drawers.

After that I changed them all to ground up. By the way this is for the shop only. I don't have metal trim plates in the house.

 

[1stwarrior95]

Maybe this will help....

The wife and I were flying back from DC on Sat....sitting up in 1st....good view of the galley.....and I noticed some 110 Vac outlets....

Ground is up.....

I get it now... So if you're on a plane, ground is up...Makes perfect sense... LOL

 

[Wow]

Maybe this will help....

The wife and I were flying back from DC on Sat....sitting up in 1st....good view of the galley.....and I noticed some 110 Vac outlets....

Ground is up.....

But then you have to ask yourself, how are you grounded at 30,000 feet up?

 

[Kevin54]

Mine are all ground post up. I have metal trim plates around my plugs. I have pulled a plug out and excedently contacted the two line posts on the metal trim plate. I burnt the hell out of the trim plate as well as filled my drawers.

After that I changed them all to ground up. By the way this is for the shop only. I don't have metal trim plates in the house.

I don't see how ypu could have made contact with the trim plate when electrical contact is broken before the plug leaves the outlet. Me thinks that some of these war stories, although entertaining, are made up,

 

[1stwarrior95]

I don't see how ypu could have made contact with the trim plate when electrical contact is broken before the plug leaves the outlet. Me thinks that some of these war stories, although entertaining, are made up,

Even though I'm a "ground down" guy, I gotta disagree with ya Kevin. After reading this thread I started to pay more attention to plugins and just today our dogs were playing and caught the cord for my laptop. There was close to 1/4 in of terminals showing and I still had power to the computer.

That being said, I'm still of the "ground down" sort of mind. My idea is, if you're workin on an outlet, aahumm, turn the damn power off...

 

[Costner]

You should know what you are talking about before you accuse someone of dishonesty.

I do - and it's called common sense coupled with a degree in electronics (which requires a lot of knowledge of current flow so I don't actually need the google results from how much current it takes to kill a person). There are too many "one in a million" issues at stake here to believe this is all possible at one time.

If the shovel knocked out a plug for a receptacle due to it being dropped, it would be in a downward motion and as such the motion of the plug being removed from the receptacle would be in an outward and downward motion - in the situation you are describing I see no way to overcome gravitational pull to allow the shovel to precisely bridge the two prongs of the cord it is striking against and thus create a short if at the same time it struck this plug. If you look at a shovel you will see the blade is typically at an angle to the shaft - and as such if a shovel were to fall onto a plug it would need to be at an angle rather than straight down. This pretty much invalidates and reasonable chance of this happening, but let's just ignore that little point for now.

If we ignore simple physics and pretend that might actually occur, we then need to be under the assumption that the cord end must have prongs that are still in contact with the terminals inside of the receptacle - which the assumes the weight of the shovel isn't enough to dislodge the plug from the receptacle far enough to break this connection. So now we have to add that to the assumption that the shovel just happened to land perfectly level and or where the point can contact both of these terminals, and it needs to remain that way for more than a microsecond (long enough for a user to react and reach for it, but not so long that it might happen to result in arcing and/or tripping a breaker).

Add to this that we need to assume the user reached for the shovel at the shovel head rather than the shaft or handle, because again - the handle is typically made out of wood or fiberglass and as such would isolate the user. We then need to assume during this action that the short between the two terminals wasn't sufficient to trip a breaker and that the user was thrown on "his ***".

The simple fact is, you would have a better chance of hitting a hole in one while getting hit by lightning, while winning the lottery, while tripping over Jimmy Hoffa's gravesite with a clearly marked headstone... at the same time.

So yea - I'm still raising the bs flag.

 

[Norcal]

The NEC code committies refuse to even touch the issue of receptacle orientation, and any "Ground up or down" thread at the Mike Holt electrical forum will get closed pronto, same for any other professional electrical forum.
The simple matter is that anyone who says either up or down is correct is flat wrong! It's job specs or personal preferances....

 

[Wow]

Spent about 5 hours in the Emergency Room yesterday...noticed all the outlets are ground down. I thought it was kind of funny that the TV had to be plugged into a hospital grade outlet with a special hospital grade cord.

Now where can I get a light like they have there for over my work bench??!