snap on s80 not made in america??

[tpolley]

i'm probably beating a dead horse but i couldn't find anything in a search. i just got a new snap on s80 1/2 ratchet and it doesn't say anything about being made in america. i thought all snap on hand tools were stamped "made in usa"?

 

[X1 Mike]

Try there website, and yes the horse is sufficiently beaten.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...=22911&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all



Stock # S80
Name Ratchet, Dual 80, Standard Handle, 1/2" drive, 10 5/16"
Price** $135.00
Brand Snap-on
Country Of Origin USA
Finish Chrome
Square Drive, inches 1/2
Description Standard Handle
Head Type Dual 80 Sealed
Gear Teeth 80
Gear Action 4.5°
Dimension A, Head Depth, inches 3/4
Dimension B, Head Width, inches 1 5/8
Dimension C, Length, inches 10 5/16
Ratchet Service Kit RKRS80
Flex Joint Repair Kit -
Locking Mechanism Repair Kit -

 

[superautobacs]

I'd have to say the guts for the ratchet mechanism is outsourced from Taiwan.

 

[Merkava_4]

I just fired off an Email to Snap-on.

I'll let you guys know what they say.

 

[Monte]

The question was already discussed, "thedroid" sent snapon a email:

Here's the reply. As a Snap-on fan I'm not impressed.


Why don't the new ratchets have USA stamped on them? I've been a
long time customer, and I can't seem to understand why something so
important would be omitted. I've heard numerous rumors, and the most
popular one is that the guts are made in Taiwan. Snap-on tools are very
expensive, and I can't think of any mechanic willing to pay Snap-on prices
for tools made in Taiwan. When paying these prices for your quality hard
line tools, we expect and deserve to see USA stamped into the metal.


Thank you for contacting Snap-on Tools.

Our corporate headquarters as a whole decided instead of putting emphasis on where the item was made they chose to just emphasis the Snap On name that it speaks for itself. Everyone knows they are getting a high quality item when purchasing from Snap On Tools. Hope this is the answer you were looking for. If you would like to provide the item number you have I can look to see what the country of origin is. Have a good day.

Thank you,


Snap-on Customer Care
Visit www.snapon.com for ordering or product information
877-762-7664

 

[tw33k2514]

In other words this is the first step to out sourcing more stuff.

 

[Monte]

The answer from snap-on didn`t really say anything exactly but maybe this:

Blue Point ratcheting wrench "Made in Taiwan"

Snap-on "RAF80" ratchet - NO "USA" stamped on the ratchet

Snap-on Dual 80 - NO "USA" stamped on the ratchet

So if you look at the pawls my guess is that the parts are sourced from Taiwan. Prolly becuse of a Patent. Do a patent search almost all (or all ?) patents for ratcheting wrenches/ratchets of this kind are from Taiwan.

Here is a thread about that issue: click

 

[superautobacs]

The RKRF80 (repair kit) is saying otherwise...
------------------------------------
Product Specifications
Stock # RKRF80
Name Kit, Ratchet Service
Price** $10.00
Brand Snap-on
Country Of Origin USA
------------------------------------

I stand corrected from my earlier statement ..... mmmm, wait a sec here....
So the question I've posed before still applies...
If these repair kits are indeed produced in the USA, why wouldn't the FLF80 have the "USA" stamped on them?


*note to self: check snap-on's website in a few days to see if they change the COO on the repair kit.

 

[Monte]

Their website also say that the battery charger for their cordless drill is from the USA , but the charger says "Made in China" on the charger itself........

Also the Snap-On branded ratcheting wrenches dont say USA because it was said here that the pawl/gear is from Taiwan (Japan.... etc. depending on the source.......)... but the website also say USA.....

 

[MD11]

i'm probably beating a dead horse but i couldn't find anything in a search. i just got a new snap on s80 1/2 ratchet and it doesn't say anything about being made in america. i thought all snap on hand tools were stamped "made in usa"?

Here is a similar thread I made on the topic... the finer points to your answer lie in there. It IS and it's not.. depends on how you define "Made in USA"

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49845

 

[MD11]

Their website also say that the battery charger for their cordless drill is from the USA , but the charger says "Made in China" on the charger itself........

Also the Snap-On branded ratcheting wrenches dont say USA because it was said here that the pawl/gear is from Taiwan (Japan.... etc. depending on the source.......)... but the website also say USA.....

I agree, they are overly lazy on how they label "Country of Origin" on their website.. the Nicad 18v battery is made in Japan, but on their website it says... well, you have to read it to believe it!

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=2379&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[forceyoda]

I agree, they are overly lazy on how they label "Country of Origin" on their website.. the Nicad 18v battery is made in Japan, but on their website it says... well, you have to read it to believe it!

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=2379&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

we are not there yet Snap On.

 

[Monte]

lol
yeah i also always mistake japan for mexico........

 

[chadster1]

I agree, they are overly lazy on how they label "Country of Origin" on their website.. the Nicad 18v battery is made in Japan, but on their website it says... well, you have to read it to believe it!

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...&group_ID=2379&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Thats some funny stuff. What is even worse is that when I look at a CTB4187 on my truck it has Made in Japan stamped on the battery.

 

[MD11]

Thats some funny stuff. What is even worse is that when I look at a CTB4187 on my truck it has Made in Japan stamped on the battery.

Right, you would think they'd use that Made in Mexico (or United States of Mexico ) as rarely as they can get away with...... not in place of Japan for God's sake!

 

[rhastings80]

I'm guessing it is because Snap-On's "Country Of Origin" or COO is their own term not a legal term and they can use it as they like. On the other hand if they stamp "Made in USA" on the tool they have to conform to the USA's FTC guidelines which they might not meet. That's my guess at least. Why else wouldn't they want to be proud and stamp "Made in USA" on it?

 

[Merkava_4]

I got the e-mail back from Snap-On today:

Hi, I have compiled a list of your U.S. manufacturing facilities. Can you tell me which one the F80 and S80 ratchets are made? Thank You

Hi Vance

Those are both made in ELIZABETHTON, TN. Basically, to sum it up real easily, our STEEL/IRON hand tools are made in the USA, Most BLUEPOINT product is Asian.


Thank you

Tim

From the Thomas Register:
Snap-On Tools Corp.
http://www.snapon.com
Phone: 423-543-5771
Fax: 423-543-8677 Address:
2195 State Line Rd.
Elizabethton, TN 37643

 

[mkdive]

Interesting, thanks merk!

 

[ericg]

Merk, interesting reply from SO but then the question remains, why won't they mark the tool "made in USA?" I understand the threads that MD11 and others have posted explaining why but doesn't it make you think that a portion of the ratchet head internals can be imported? Do you think that the TN factory also produces the SHLF80?

Thanks......

Eric

 

[06wt]

i think as others have stated in the past that snap-on is testing the waters, to see how not putting a usa marking on the tools, is taken by the customer. And with the response that snap-on has receved from this site alone should have told them what they need to know, we want to see usa on our tools. Im still pretty sure that the ratchets are made in the states, cuz if you all remember i think the first 2 years of the dual 80 ratchets had usa under the snap-on logo on the head

 

[Merkava_4]

After reading the e-mail, I sent a follow up question asking Tim where the internals are made. You can't ask too much of a detailed question at one time - you gotta break it up into two or three separate questions for these people.

 

[ericg]

Merk, your efforts are much appreciated. I can't wait to see SO's response. Its truly a shame that a consumer can't ask two many questions at once. If big business were more honest, we would have more respect and in turn, become more brand loyal.

Eric

 

[Flash21]

i think as others have stated in the past that snap-on is testing the waters, to see how not putting a usa marking on the tools, is taken by the customer. And with the response that snap-on has receved from this site alone should have told them what they need to know, we want to see usa on our tools. Im still pretty sure that the ratchets are made in the states, cuz if you all remember i think the first 2 years of the dual 80 ratchets had usa under the snap-on logo on the head

^^^ Agreed

Does anyone know how long they stamped USA on the 80 series after product launch? I didn't even think it was close to 2 years...

 

[chadster1]

^^^ Agreed

Does anyone know how long they stamped USA on the 80 series after product launch? I didn't even think it was close to 2 years...

I dont think it was 2 years either. The change was made with no announcement whatsoever. I kept a couple of the last 80 series ratchets with the USA on them for myself.

 

[mrshaun]

I sold mine chad. there is nothing different in the tool so no reason to think it is not USA made. I think I am made in the usa, but my label must have fallen off...lol Must be usa, not too many parts have broken. Just a finger...

 

[MD11]

I sold mine chad. there is nothing different in the tool so no reason to think it is not USA made. I think I am made in the usa, but my label must have fallen off...lol Must be usa, not too many parts have broken. Just a finger...

But you have to wonder why they'd go thru the expense and controversy of removing that imprint were it not for the California purity laws? Seriously..

 

[Merkava_4]

I think it looks better with "USA" inside the circle below "Snap-on" like on Chad's ratchet, but that's just me. :shrug:

 

[MD11]

Also, and this is a VERY good point... if their logic for removing the USA wasn't driven by parts content, then why is it that the latest and greatest breaker bars such as the SN25A and SN15B that I have both have USA stamped on the handle... a handle that mind you looks almost identical in it's casting? Why not be consistent? Not to mention, my brand new 1/4" drive ratchets which also just happen to not have 80 teeth?

 

[chadster1]

I sold mine chad. there is nothing different in the tool so no reason to think it is not USA made. I think I am made in the usa, but my label must have fallen off...lol Must be usa, not too many parts have broken. Just a finger...

I kept the USA ones for nostalgic reasons only. I know the tools are the same but I wanted my ratchets to have USA on them.

 

[BanjoSavesTheDay]

California purity laws...sounds like Reinheitsgebot to me

 

[mrshaun]

DOnt know what to say.... if they decided to remove the name, then that is their decision. anything else is above my pay grade....lol

 

[MD11]

DOnt know what to say.... if they decided to remove the name, then that is their decision. anything else is above my pay grade....lol

Well, I've got two emails into their man in charge of "Strategic Sourcing" .. the first was a well written request asking to explain the sourcing of the gears in those ratchets.. 4 days without a response later.. I've just sent a follow up asking if he was "Seriously going to ignore a customer who paid over 20K in just this year".. we'll see if those above your pay grade care to be honest with their consumers.

 

[BanjoSavesTheDay]

Also, and this is a VERY good point... if their logic for removing the USA wasn't driven by parts content, then why is it that the latest and greatest breaker bars such as the SN25A and SN15B that I have both have USA stamped on the handle... a handle that mind you looks almost identical in it's casting? Why not be consistent? Not to mention, my brand new 1/4" drive ratchets which also just happen to not have 80 teeth?

I think that that is the best argument. Say what you may, but the guts of those ratchets are not American made and Snap On doesn't want to admit it. The prices of their products are so high because of all the extra costs that go into manufacturing something in America. It's not right to charge customers for those costs if they are non-existent.

 

[MD11]

I think that that is the best argument. Say what you may, but the guts of those ratchets are not American made and Snap On doesn't want to admit it. The prices of their products are so high because of all the extra costs that go into manufacturing something in America. It's not right to charge customers for those costs if they are non-existent.

This is why..


From: http://www1.snapon.com/corporate

All this in the worse economy the US has had in 70 years.

--------------------------------------------------------

KENOSHA, Wis., October 29, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE)--Snap-on Incorporated (NYSE: SNA), a leading global innovator, manufacturer and marketer of tools, diagnostics, equipment, software and service solutions for professional users, today announced operating results for the third quarter of 2009. Sales of $581.8 million declined 16.6% compared to a year ago; foreign currency translation contributed 3.0 percentage points of the sales decline.
Gross profit of $260.5 million represented 44.8% of sales compared to 44.7% a year ago, with Rapid Continuous Improvement (RCI) offsetting the impact of lower production volume and capacity carrying costs.
Operating earnings of $48.7 million include $4.7 million of restructuring costs and a loss of $5.3 million from Financial Services due to the July 16, 2009 termination of the financial services joint venture with The CIT Group, Inc. A year ago, operating earnings of $86.4 million included $1.4 million of restructuring costs and $4.8 million of income from Financial Services.
Cash flow from operations of $80.1 million increased from $21.8 million in the third quarter of 2008 primarily due to improved working capital management, principally as a result of an increased emphasis on inventory reduction.
Net earnings of $25.4 million declined $29.2 million from a year ago. The 2009 loss from Financial Services, when compared to the income earned in 2009, contributed $7.4 million of this decline. Higher after-tax interest expense and restructuring costs contributed another $6.4 million of the year-over-year net earnings decline.

 

[mrshaun]

well I am glad you guys hold snap on to a higher level than that of any other company.
SOmeone needs to do the same with matco selling their kobalt ratchet on the truck for 40-50 more than lowes does. But that of course is another thread.
Until someone from snap on corporate chimes in, this will go nowhere.

 

[BanjoSavesTheDay]

However, MD11, even though I don't agree with how they are doing it, there are a lot of factors here in American that are forcing businesses to go this route. The federal government is running us all into the ground with cap and trade, carbon dioxide emissions, and so forth. They need to decrease taxes on businesses and then businesses will grow. If they increase taxes, businesses suffer and pass more costs on to the consumer. The fascists in our country are doing a great job convincing everyone that industry is inherently evil. The Federal Reserve is destroying the value of the dollar, which has a whole host of problems, not all of which are related to importing and exporting. Anyway...I guess my point is just that it's big government and its supporters that have put industry in this situation and now we're all screwed. Sorry for the rant.

 

[BanjoSavesTheDay]

mrshaun, to the best of my knowledge, matco/kobalt is not trying to deceive anyone with the COO.

Edit: That came off slightly more confrontationally than I intended. I just don't like how they are listing the COO as USA on the website but are not legally allowed to stamp it on the ratchet.

 

[MD11]

However, MD11, even though I don't agree with how they are doing it, there are a lot of factors here in American that are forcing businesses to go this route. The federal government is running us all into the ground with cap and trade, carbon dioxide emissions, and so forth. They need to decrease taxes on businesses and then businesses will grow. If they increase taxes, businesses suffer and pass more costs on to the consumer. The fascists in our country are doing a great job convincing everyone that industry is inherently evil. The Federal Reserve is destroying the value of the dollar, which has a whole host of problems, not all of which are related to importing and exporting. Anyway...I guess my point is just that it's big government and its supporters that have put industry in this situation and now we're all screwed. Sorry for the rant.

I agree with some of those things... but think of the world as a giant fish tank with those little pebbles you buy at the pet store at the bottom.

Now think of the US as the part of the fish tank with a huge 6" deep pile of those pebbles, and China and other 3rd world nations as the area on the other side with 1" deep pebbles..

What some want to do is shake the tank until both sides are equal .. say about 3".. which translates to better standard of living for them and lower standard of living for us..

The fact that we've got a government (both parties, and presidents as far back as the 1970's).. that is in the hands of lobbies and banks is not new.. but the Europeans who also have intrusive governments still manage to protect their labor a bit better than we do... over their, they're dealing with the EU and whether it's fair for Germany and France t subsidize Italy and Spain.. or Whether it's ok to send a factory to Solvania or Hungary.. but those are all, after all European nations with a long history of ups and downs.. What we have here is a government (Again both parties seem complacent on this).. that are "ok" with us sending labor to China where they are still to this day making soup out of unborn babies as a delicacy!!! The Godless Chicoms should be our enemy, but since we benefit from making cheap **** there, money talks and BS walks..

I used to work contract for an outfit that did supplemental flights for Fedex into Shanghai back in 2006 and 2007 and I can tell you that we'd fly a MD11 freighter with a couple of Ferrari's and some Fedex envelopes inbound, and 200,000lbs of freight / goods outbound 2 times a day, 7 days a week... I saw the trade balance visually.. and you can bet that those Ferrari's were going to the new Chinese millionaire's that were making their millions on the back's of slave labor working 7 days a week 12 hours a day.. And you want the US worker to compete with that?

Anyway.. that's my rant..

 

[oldtools]

....Those are both made in ELIZABETHTON, TN. Basically, to sum it up real easily, our STEEL/IRON hand tools are made in the USA....

It didn't say 100% US made.

 

[oldtools]

It doesn't seem like SO online COO can be trusted. If the tool itself does not have "USA" on it, it is not made in the US.