KR vs KRL. Which box is best box?

[mcantar]

First thread!

So I shifted to a different industry a few months ago and calipers, micrometers, and reference gauges are slowly pushing the now-unneeded ratchets, wrenches, and BFH's out of my work toolbox.

I've been running out of tool storage and work space at home as I pare unneeded stuff from my work box, so I picked up a KR1000 with an SO stainless top bench and hutch a few days ago.
It's in pretty good shape considering it's age, but it's pretty grimy so I'll be giving it a good rub down this weekend with scotch-brite (on the stainless, NOT on the paint) and degreaser.

The day I picked it up was the day my Snappy guy visits and I mentioned it in passing while I was on the truck buying stuff. He offered to buy it right then and there for almost twice what I paid for it, and offered to cut me a killer deal (over 50%) off on a brand new KRL7023 (and deliver it right to my house).

The KR1000 has a pretty solid, almost cult-like following, but I haven't figured out why yet... maybe I just need to spend more time with it... but I'm wondering if my kids wouldn't be better off with the KRL in 15 years.

Now I know these things are driven by the user, and what's best for a body shop guy might not be best for the tech at the local Firestone. The only feature I'm seeing that I like on the KRL better is that extra wide top drawer, but other than that it's kind of a wash as I have the room for either.

What do you guys have to say?

 

[ChevyEFI]

The top box that matches the KR1000 has a full width drawer.

 

[bdelmar2]

It depends on the individual boxes in question, but as a general rule the older a box is the more heavy duty it is.

The KR1000 is built like a tank, just grab a drawer and pull it out then wiggle it around a bit, now try that with the krl7023, its way flimsier. Grab in the middle of one of the drawer sides and push it back and forth, kr1000 won't move much, krl7023 will flex a lot - any of the newer ones will - not to say it is a flimsy box in comparasion to the other new stuff that is out there, but less heavy duty than a kr.

But the older krl's are almost the same as a kr. I have a krl1001 (which has the wide top drawer) and it feels a lot better made than a new box on the truck, perhaps not as heavy duty as my kr at home but pretty close.

The 70xx series tool boxes are also shorter than your 1000 series so you basically lose a drawer height.

Of course in theory you would gain that back and some more because the 7023 is triple bank, but in practice it doesn't work out like that.

Krl7023 has 19 drawers, 11 of which are shallow, kr1000 has 15, 4 of which are shallow, my 1001 has 14, 6 of which are shallow.

I can tell you I have more shallow drawers than I want, I would much rather have fewer deeper drawers from a practical standpoint. Many tools/sets wont fit in a shallow drawer, while smaller ones will still fit in a deeper drawer.

The wide top drawer on my 1001 is fine moderately handy, little heavy as I have all (well, most) of my sockets/extensions/ratchets in it - which from what I have seen is probably the most common use of it.

But honestly its not so much that its wide that is handy as the fact its a deep top drawer. I would actually prefer if it was split into 2 deep drawers but no biggy.

The second full width drawer on the 7023 would be great for wrenches, what I imagine its designed for, not as tall as the top drawer, but taller than a regular shallow one.

You would get a larger top work surface with the 7023, but I would imagine a top for it will in addition to original purchase price.

As far as value goes, tool box prices seem to be a regional thing, but in my area a kr1000 when it comes up is somewhere in the $500 to $2000 range depending on shape and owner expectations - but they don't come up often and always sell fast- within a couple days.

krl7023's go for $2000 up depending on same factors and don't sell as fast. Partially because its more cash to come up with I suppose, but also because they are pretty big and not everybody has the space. I have seen pretty nice ones for $3k sit on CL for long periods of time - 6mts or more.

Given that even at half price a krl7023 is still over $5k that doesn't seem like a great value to me, but would depend on your areas specifically.

Don't know what you paid for the 1000, but obviously got a good deal if the dealer will give you double what you paid, and you already own it.

Personally I'd keep the 1000 as it is more functionally useable in my situation and is heavier built, and wouldn't cost me anything more - and I'm a tall guy so the extra height is nice.

 

[Mr_B]

besides drawer layout if prefer the newer craze for full width and deeper height drawers there nothing much to gain.
The KR1000 is a great box, nice and deep and nice lot of drawers, having stainless top good bonus as they ideal work surface height for most people .
KR1000 always be worth money so kids can either trade it in for what they need at that time or carry on enjoying dads old box .
If you got it for a steal price and it clean order keep it and enjoy a snappy classic .
Snapon truck guys always looking pull in a box trade lol, it never a great efficient way spend money for a box lol .

 

[Wamsutta]

Coming from a KRL1056 owner, I'd strongly recommend that you keep the KR1000.

In comparing build quality, the KRL is made from paper thin sheet metal. Paper thin sheet metal bends real easy. Run away from that deal as fast and far away as you can would be my advice.

Besides that, the KRL7023 is a whole layer of drawers shorter.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

My advice to the OP would just be that the KR series is great.
But the KRL series is great, as well.
I have a KRL1000 my shop bought new in 95. I unloaded it off the freight truck myself. It's still in use as the main shop tools box and many drawers full of heavy stuff. If KRL is as flimsy as some here make it out, it would not have survived 22 years of working equipment dealer shop use being treated like step-child since it's the shops, not a personal owned box.

 

[pi_guy]

I wandered downstairs into the garage and measured the thickness on some drawers.
KR 56 .039
KRSC43 .050
KRL 1032 .060

Done with a caliper so it is close. Also the major diff outside of the thickness is the extra folds in the drawers

So as often here on GJ many with no exposure to the items have answers contrary to the facts.

 

[bigdav160]

I prefer shallow drawers for most things so I would go with the box with the most shallow drawer space. (two KLR1003's here and need more shallow drawers)

 

[Schurkey]

KR1000 has drawer dividers welded-in. I hate them, but they do stiffen the drawers. I wanted "open floor-plan" drawers, like the newer boxes.

 

[redwrench60]

Both are good boxes but heavier doesn't always mean better. You can build a box out of 1/4" plate steel and it would be a tank but it couldn't be moved around a shop let alone loaded/unloaded at your new job. All the caster's capacity would be eaten up by the weight of the box and have none left for tools. KRL's are built smart with strategically placed gussets and stiffeners to carry huge loads of tools without weighing a ton themselves.

KRL's seem awkward when new and empty on the Snap On truck for sale. The drawers seem stiff to open and flimsy but I promise, load them with a few thousand pounds of tools and they smooth right out. I don't know if I could ever overload my KRL. Maybe if I filled it with wheel weights or something.

 

[Wamsutta]

I have a KRL1000 my shop bought new in 95.

That would be a KRL1001.

 

[bsg1]

Both are good boxes but heavier doesn't always mean better. You can build a box out of 1/4" plate steel and it would be a tank but it couldn't be moved around a shop let alone loaded/unloaded at your new job. All the caster's capacity would be eaten up by the weight of the box and have none left for tools. KRL's are built smart with strategically placed gussets and stiffeners to carry huge loads of tools without weighing a ton themselves.

KRL's seem awkward when new and empty on the Snap On truck for sale. The drawers seem stiff to open and flimsy but I promise, load them with a few thousand pounds of tools and they smooth right out. I don't know if I could ever overload my KRL. Maybe if I filled it with wheel weights or something.

thanks for the mini review of the KRL series. I have no history with the KRL series and can't do the Pepsi Challenge, but I will mention that drawer movement of the KR series also smoothens out with added weight. I have a KR series combo from 1978 and the more weight the better.

 

[WittHay]

I had a KRL7003 and the last word i would use to describe it is flimsy. Weighed about 825 lbs. and was loaded up with heavy stuff. The drawers were smooth and you could pull them out with one finger

I think shallower drawers are better for organizing in a home shop. Don't need to put every last blow molded case in your tool box.

The other thing is color selection. older KR is red you might like a different color and that might be worth a $1000 or two extra for a box that you could have for 20 years

 

[Patrick73RS]

i have a KRL1023 and it’s built well. I have a lot of weight in it and it’s rock solid. Can’t comment on the KR series

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

So as often here on GJ many with no exposure to the items have answers contrary to the facts.

I might have to perma-quote that!

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

That would be a KRL1001.

yes,sorry, I did actually mean 1001, just miss-typed.

 

[pi_guy]

I might have to perma-quote that!

As long as you make a donation to a mechanical charity.


There is one in the brake bleeding thread that claims it is good to push fluid from the caliper to the master and you can just **** the fluid and **** out from the reservoir.

Also since he has never had a bad brake pedal from contaminated fluid such a concept is only to sell brake fluid.

The issue is the guy writes a ton of text but all wrong and people will often listen to the big posting that sound good but fail to see the error in it.

 

[Wamsutta]

Someday I would like to find a KR1000 and restore it. They're not too hard to restore. I already have experience working with Snap-on paint. It works best on bare steel. 3 coats, 5 minutes apart at 100F.

 

[bdelmar2]

I wandered downstairs into the garage and measured the thickness on some drawers.
KR 56 .039
KRSC43 .050
KRL 1032 .060

Done with a caliper so it is close. Also the major diff outside of the thickness is the extra folds in the drawers

So as often here on GJ many with no exposure to the items have answers contrary to the facts.

I will admit I haven't measured any of my boxes metal thickness, nor have I paid any attention to how the drawers are folded. I've just been using mostly snap on boxes since the early 80's.

But I own several snap on boxes and have owned many others over the years, and have access to a few more. Not exceptional, fairly common for mechanics.



I recently gave a friend of mine a kr557/537 combo with the center drawer section. It was made in the late '70s and is a pretty sturdy box, but its not as heavy as my later boxes. Its also not as deep, metric wasn't a thing then, and vehicles were less complicated so mechanics didn't need nearly as many tools.

I could go mic it at his place, although I still have the 2 side boxes and the hanging puller box here at home.

I also have here at home a kr660b/kr650 set that is definitely heavier. Also about 4" deeper, and the bottom box and bottom drawer of the top box are bearing glides. It was made in the early 80's.

You can pull the 660's drawers all the way out and wiggle the sides, they don't move to speak of, you can grab the whole drawer and try to move it back and forth and it won't move much either, and when you push the drawer in, it goes straight in evenly and steadily even if you push on just one side with a finger.

I no longer have a kr1000, but when I did it acted just like that and its not surprising as they were made toward the end of the 660's run if I remember correctly.

At work I have krl1001, also an older box, forget the production date on it, and it doesn't feel quite as sturdy as the older boxes, but still pretty sturdy. Sides of the drawers don't deflect much, the drawers have more side to side movement and I can feel a back and forth 'wallowing' when I push them in, especially from one side.

Perhaps I should have used the word 'deflection' earlier instead of 'flimsier' and fewer people would have their ******* in a bunch.

One of our mechanics just got snap on corporate credit and has a brand new krsc46. Its drawer sides have considerably more 'deflection' than my 1001. They also 'wallow' back and forth more, just don't have the feeling of stiffness, and when you close a drawer with a finger on one side it will move a fair amount on that side before the other side starts to move.

If you are sensitive, you may want to substitute a more politically correct word for 'wallow'.

I haven't actually put my hands on a new 7023, but the double bank version (krl722) is on the snap on truck that comes by and it feels the same as the krsc46 more or less.

There is a 1022 on the truck as well, but I haven't played with it.


I would imagine your KR 56 would have thinner metal as it is a small portable box, not really comparable to double and triple bank stationary boxes. (Yes I am aware you can move them, but you aren't going to pick one up and put it in your trunk)


Yes, I am guilty of not actually having measured the thickness of the boxes in question, oddly in almost 35 years of working with them I have never had the need.


I may be full of **** and the newer metal is thicker, I have also never sat them all side by side and fingered them in comparison either.


But I am reasonably good at telling whether something feels more or less sturdy in general comparison.

The older boxes all feel very noticeably studier and solid to me. It may not be the metal thickness at all though that is my assumption.


Not to say any of them are bad boxes, quite the opposite. They are all great boxes. As they should be for something costing in the $10,000 range, or the $5000 range, or even the $2000 roll cart.

I'm even looking for a good deal on a used 7023 as it would fit just right in my work area to replace a stainless bench I use to assemble transmissions.

I shall however take the plunge and use the mic on the drawer its in and a few others that are handy on Monday just to see.

Edit: I should also add that metal 'thickness' does not necessarily equate to 'strength' The newer steel may have fewer impurities or be of a different composition and actually be stronger, without being a metallurgist and testing it I couldn't say.

 

[mcantar]

Wow, more responses than I would have expected.

Here it is after a good cleaning. Went over it all with engine degreaser, hit the paint afterwards with some Honda polish I use on my bikes, and cleaned up the stainless (well... bribed the kid to do it anyway)

Now I need to make a jumper cable to run from my garage lighting over to the light in the hutch (I'm OCD about my cable runs, has to be clean and organized and an extension cord just won't cut it).
Also need to figure out something for drawer liners, seems everything readily available is a few inches too short to cover the full length of the drawer. I have an email in to NSI for a quote on their "high-grip non-slip" stuff cut to size for each drawer, depending on what they want I'll either go with that or the 30' roll of whatever they have at Home Depot.

Jury's still out on the trade-it-in deal, seems there's good points on both sides. I'll have to sleep on it a bit more.

Someday I would like to find a KR1000 and restore it. They're not too hard to restore. I already have experience working with Snap-on paint. It works best on bare steel. 3 coats, 5 minutes apart at 100F.

By chance, do you know of a Duplicolor or Rustoleum color that'll match that I can pick up in a rattle can at the auto parts store? Snappy seems to no longer have the color, if their website is to be believed.

 

[plinker]

Rustolem "sunrise red" seems to be the close match paint that I remember.

I had a KR1000 for a about four years, great box, ended up not being big enough for what I needed, traded for a KRL1023 and it's pretty nice as well. One of the other guys in the shop actually got my KR1000.

Funny part is I could just as well kept the KR box since I changed jobs and dont need all the heavier tools with what I'm doing now.

 

[Wamsutta]

By chance, do you know of a Duplicolor or Rustoleum color that'll match that I can pick up in a rattle can at the auto parts store? Snappy seems to no longer have the color, if their website is to be believed.

The standard red spray can is part# REP12A.

You have to phone in the order on paints. Website don't show it.

 

[mcantar]

The website does show it (link), it just says it's no longer available.


I'll check out that Sunrise Red, thanks!

 

[bobcatdan]

It really gets me when people say the older bode are built better then new. Granted my box is almost 15 years old now, but compared to KR1000s I have been around, I don't see how they are build better. A KR1000 has more drawers, so it will weigh slightly more. With no wide drawers, the center drawer support runs full top to bottom so in theory that is stronger then a KRL since it stops before the top. Most KR have welded drawer dividers so that will make a drawer more ridgid. In the end it's trade offs in a box by design is more ridgid, but is less user friendly. Now taco carts on the other hand I can believe are much beefier. But those were designed for airport hangers to be moved constantly, often being towed. Not really what most krl will see in an auto shop.

 

[shockwave]

I do know most of not all kr will be in red
Krl started coming in colors

And the current krl series have thinner construction than those krl from 8+years ago to make way for epiq the rest will be the same

 

[Wamsutta]

And the current krl series have thinner construction than those krl from 8+years ago to make way for epiq the rest will be the same

My KRL1056 is a 1999 model. It's loaded up full of super thin 18 gage steel. If they've made the boxes any thinner than that, then they're ripping people off big time.

 

[mcantar]

Hey guys, wanted to give some follow-on info on this for the random Google searcher that'll read this in 4 months.

Turns out, we're both right....

The standard red spray can is part# REP12A.

You have to phone in the order on paints. Website don't show it.

The website does show it (link), it just says it's no longer available.


I'll check out that Sunrise Red, thanks!

The SO website does, as I said, list the red touch up can under REP12A, and does state that the product is no longer available.
HOWEVER, if you call them, they can look it up in some "other" system that shows it as available and allows them to sell it to you over the phone after somehow "verifying" that you're over 18yo. The price is ~$24.

Also of note, according to the lady on the phone they've been using the same red since the late 40's or so... so these older boxes are not a different color than the newer ones, and any variance in appearance is simply due to age and exposure.