Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT Woody's Works Garage

[Denwood]

Quite a few of the "SmartThings" devices are rebranded Centralite...so you can price shop a bit. You're correct in that the branded ST stuff is all Zigbee.

You'll see that this Centralite plug looks familiar...

 

[Denwood]

Basement Home Theatre Noise Proofing

Boarding done, with little left of the the 20 odd sheets this area soaked up.

I've been doing quick sound tests to see how effective (or not) the sound "proofing" treatments are as we close things up. The measure rig is just my iPhone 6s plus, using the SigScopePro app. The reference pink noise (equal energy across all frequencies) is provided by my computer, which I measure at 94.5 db, about 3 ft away. The computer sits in the basement, just adjacent to the theater area. The three measure points are in the living area on the 1st floor. The loudest point is at a cold air return on 1st floor, almost directly above computer. Our first floor living room is directly above the theatre.

The most important is the last measure point (on floor by couch) as this is in the middle of our living room above the theater. That's where we're looking for max noise attenuation. Here's my ad hoc data table so far If you're planning on doing a renovation with noise control, this stuff might help.

BASELINE TESTS

iPhone SigScopePro pro meter, Level-Lp, Weighting-A, Response-Slow.

Reference Pink noise from computer sub/spkrs in basement office nook, below 1st floor test areas. HVAC room (completely open) right beside computer. 94.5 db. Pink noise (20 Hz to 20 kHz)

1. Just after demolition, furnace room open, ceiling open, zero sound treatment, both cold air registers open from below (drywall removed):

At cold air return register by front door 65 db.
On cold air return register by south wall 64 db
At floor (on floor) by couch 51 db.

2. Computer in front of basement air return, air returns treated and closed in, floor insulation (R22 Roxul) only, no drywall:

At cold air return register by front door 60 db.
On cold air return register by south wall 57 db
At floor (on floor) by couch 48 db.

3. After two layers 1/2" ceiling dryall + Green Glue, not taped or sealed, furnace room and basement walls open/bare.

At cold air return register by front door 58 db.
On cold air return register by south wall 53 db
At floor (on floor) by couch 44 db

4. Drywall done, no mud. Open equipment rack covered by loose sheet of drywall.

At cold air return register by front door 55 db.
On cold air return register by south wall 46 db
At floor (on floor) by couch 42 db

Essentially a loud 94 db pink noise in the basement is now dropped to 42 db (a library is in the 40db area) in the living room...and there's still more noise work to do. The media rack needs to sound treated and sealed from the HVAC room, and plenty of door work (add mass, weatherstrip) will happen on the HVAC and electrical room. The biggest drop is the air return on 1st floor, in living room which started at 64 db, and has dropped to 46 db. That's 18 db, or about 4 times quieter than when we started. Pink noise includes equal energy from 20 Hz to 20 kHz so the computer sub is rumbling pretty good in this test. We'll likely never listen in the theatre at 94 db as those levels are rather offensive, and after 4-6 hrs likely would damage your hearing.

You could summarize the steps I took as follows:

1. Build duct mufflers on supply air ducts, and air return in basement theatre area. This keeps noise from propagating throughout home via metal ducts.
2. Acoustically line 1st floor air returns in theatre ceiling.
3. Insulate ceiling with R22 Roxul.
4. "Strap" ceiling with 25 gauge steel studs.
5. Apply two layers of drywall and Green glue.
6. (not done) air seal/add mass/Green Glue to basement HVAC and electrical room doors.

The basement walls are spray foamed with R24 or so, and somewhat decoupled from the floor joists, however resilient channel on those walls would have helped. I chose not to do that as floor space is scarce..so every inch matters. Closed cell foam is not a good sound block, although it's hard to beat for air sealing. If you hammer on a stud surrounded by rigid closed cell spray foam it's surprisingly loud as the foam acts a bit like a speaker.

If I had more room, no question I would have further isolated walls and ceiling using sound isolation clips and "hat" channel. However, because the basement is open, ALL of it would need to be done..not just the theatre section. One must pick their battles when it comes to noise control

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Great work Dennis!

Last night in my PC oven research I discovered that our local Lowes sells rockwool insulation with the sound control layer so I will be putting that up in the ceiling joists in the basement before I finish the ceiling to lower the noise passed through to our bedroom. But that and the acoustic tile is as far as I'm going... I just want to knock down the sound levels of the kids laughing when they have friends over.

 

[Denwood]

Thanks B. You may want to consider cutting 5/8 drywall strips to fit and applying between the floor joists against the underside (2 layers is better than 1) floor with Green Glue. That has been proven effective. The insulation itself is only likely good for a few dB with a suspended ceiling.

 

[Grumblebum]

Dennis, looks like you are on the home run stretch

I know the joys of recabling a 50yo hard wood timber frame house making for cat6 everywhere at the time. Your efforts on your 100 odd yo house w/basement are to be admired.

Have the girls picked the first movie to watch ?

Cheers GB

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Thanks B. You may want to consider cutting 5/8 drywall strips to fit and applying between the floor joists against the underside (2 layers is better than 1) floor with Green Glue. That has been proven effective. The insulation itself is only likely good for a few dB with a suspended ceiling.

Nah, like you, headroom is at a premium... I do have to put furring strips in to drop the ceiling just a little bit to clear a couple of drain pipes so I might fill in with dry wall in the grid, but just having the acoustic ceiling tiles up with the mineral wool insulation will help a lot. It's not terribly loud now with nothing there when my daughter and her friends are down there, but boys are louder and my son is reaching the age where they'll be staying over more often.

 

[Denwood]

GB, no movie picked by the girls to watch, but for sure I know what will be screened first. Wife approval depends on a successful audition/viewing of U2's latest Blu-ray concert footage in Paris. It's a good thing that Bono is short as he'll be more or less life size on the screen. Ha.

Boiler, this is the floor detail I was referring to..so no loss of height

As I seal up door frames etc. in the basement it's getting eerily quiet. My youngest daughter and niece were "playing" Wii Dance on the main floor while I worked in the basement yesterday. I had to peek upstairs to make sure they were still there...

Green Glue and two layers of drywall perform pretty much as advertised..so a real alternative/compliment to resilient channel for noise attenuation.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

GB, no movie picked by the girls to watch, but for sure I know what will be screened first. Wife approval depends on a successful audition/viewing of U2's latest Blu-ray concert footage in Paris. It's a good thing that Bono is short as he'll be more or less life size on the screen. Ha.

Boiler, this is the floor detail I was referring to..so no loss of height

As I seal up door frames etc. in the basement it's getting eerily quiet. My youngest daughter and niece were "playing" Wii Dance on the main floor while I worked in the basement yesterday. I had to peek upstairs to make sure they were still there...

Green Glue and two layers of drywall perform pretty much as advertised..so a real alternative/compliment to resilient channel for noise attenuation.

Thanks for the detail. I'll definitely file it away for my next house and shop.

Too cheap to spend anymore than I have to on this house.

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: i hope you had a good weekend. i moved a couple thousand old red bricks a client removed from his yard to put in a sport court and pics are on my GET HEALTHY thread if you want to take a peak. after loading about the first 100 of them on a 5x9 Uhaul i wanted to borrow the starship Enterprise's transporter to beam them 30 miles to my home. they made it ok and I survived. not sure what i'm doing with them yet so STAY TUNED. link for GET HEALTHY thread in case you don't have time to look it up.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298568

looks like your room is shaping up very nicely and glad you like all the sound proofing you are doing. keep up the good work.

also keep up the COOL SMART HOME TALK cause now that the last of our 5 kids have left the nest here i might have some time to look into some of that and i always enjoy the research you do.

cheers

 

[Denwood]

Boiler, I hear you on the house expense thing. We were very much intending on moving, but about six yrs ago as housing went a bit crazy, decided to just improve as needed. Not sure the next owner will appreciate all the work, but you might say the garage journal “diary” might just help sell this place down the road

Drives, the now unused red brick chimney running 3 floors in my house will end up as pavers for back yard paths...so perhaps an idea for your haul

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: i probably have more 80 pound bags of cement poured into sidewalks and walls around here than some parks so bricks probably won't be used for that. i know we could use a fire pit, outdoor BBQ or sitting areas, raised bed gardens or some pillars out front maybe on each side of our driveway. as of yet i still have more cement sidewalks to pour, a fence and deck to rebuild and then maybe i'll figure out what to do with my new pile of bricks.

are you able to get your chimney out of your house without damaging it? i recall a chimney you covered up with siding next to the deck last year, but that was on the edge of your house and not in the middle. I'll just sit back in my chair and watch and learn as per usual when it comes to your amazing projects.

we will be EMPTY NESTERS after this weekend so i might be MIA from GJ for a while so keep things active around here for me to return to when i come back.

 

[jeremy_cherokee]

Well I just made it through all 87 pages. So much amazing information. I really wish I would have read this before starting my basement project because knowing about a lot of your sound insulation techniques would have been very useful. I really like the duct muffler - I would have done that had I not already had my ceiling sealed up.

With that nice media rack down there it'd be a great opportunity to setup a little Intel NUC as a Plex server and a low power NAS and start ripping Blu-Ray's to stream on the sweet new theater. I cannot tell you how nice it is to just have my nvidia shield (I have an Apple TV upstairs and it works good but doesn't allow DTS audio) hooked up to the receiver and pick through all my movies without ever touching a disk. HandBrake and MakeMKV work great and with an i7 processor can encode the Blu-Rays in a relatively short amount of time. If you're ever wanting to go down THAT rabbit hole, feel free to ask questions. The NUC is really low power and so are most of those NAS devices so it would fit into your low power/environmental impact mindset. I find it kind of funny that we are/were both remodeling our basements at the same time and both have 7' ceilings and are both incorporating theaters into the basements

I think this year we're going to have typical Iowa winters again (the last 2 years have been very mild and last year I didn't even bring out the snow blower) so I have a feeling the theater will get a ton of use - which i'm sure is what you're looking forward to as you hibernate up there where it's even colder.

You've got a ton of great info, a lot of really good info, and I have made several notes as to where different things are in your thread so I can refer back to them as I venture down new areas. Keep up the good work!

 

[JohnnieMo]

With that nice media rack down there it'd be a great opportunity to setup a little Intel NUC as a Plex server and a low power NAS and start ripping Blu-Ray's to stream on the sweet new theater. I cannot tell you how nice it is to just have my nvidia shield (I have an Apple TV upstairs and it works good but doesn't allow DTS audio) hooked up to the receiver and pick through all my movies without ever touching a disk. HandBrake and MakeMKV work great and with an i7 processor can encode the Blu-Rays in a relatively short amount of time.

Random factoid - You can run an NVidia Shield as a Plex server natively and forgo the NUC. Also extremely low power because it is a mobile GPU chipset. I use mine to access content all over the world. It can also double as a Smart Things Hub.

 

[Denwood]

Drives, when/if that chimney comes out, it will be in pieces from the 2nd floor down Concrete is awesome, but tends to get beat up here with our freeze/thaw cycles. With climate change in the last 20 yrs, we've seen more and more wild swings from -10 and back up over freezing in one day. Absolutely tears up the roads.

Jeremy, there really should be some kind of award for the perseverance of enduring this entire thread I'm really glad you could take some useful bits from it. I think the duct mufflers represent the cheapest/fastest buzz for one's buck when trying to isolate theater noise from multistory HVAC. It's very satisfying as the mud goes on (not by me, thank goodness!!) to see how the various sound control bits are coming together as a system.

Like you, I've been messing with HTPC builds for a few yrs now, but actually end up using a few Nexus (android) units for Kodi and now Terrarium over various HTPC builds. They're about the size of a hockey puck, use next to no power, and just work. I have a full blown editing computer about 5 ft behind the basement media rack with dual Nvidia cards for processing, etc. I'll have that connected up to the AVR. I've done a few reviews for QNAP along with a six part blog series on 10Gbe Ethernet (https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tags/Cinevate) so they were gracious enough to supply me with a few NAS units, both 10Gbe equipped. The NAS units actually work quite nicely as HTPC units...and host archives of all of our family photos/videos. That will be hooked up into the system too as we do get a kick out of exploring family history as the girls grow up

Johnnie, I ended up buying the 2 Nexus players (they were cheap near the end of production), which seem quite happy now with Android 8. Nvidia must of sold a boat load of Shields as they are without question the defacto box to get these days...just a bit more pricey. The shield should be miles faster with respect to hardware for ST than the hub ST is using!

With the theater going ATMOS, I suppose I'll either have to buy blu-rays for the full Monty experience, or wait for some streaming alternatives. There's a Sony 4K bluray player (with ATMOS support) sitting in a box waiting to get hooked up With respect to streaming ATMOS stuff there's not much right now...just Netflix on a few titles with select (Xbox One, 2017 LG OLED TVs) devices. Other than carpet, the budget is max'd out for now, so those bits will need to wait.

Speaking of theaters, my drywall guru Bob applied his artistry to layer one of tape and mud today. It's pretty awesome to see a master at work. I was relegated to dump duty getting a solid truckload of old basement out to landfill today.

Bob has taken my rather shoddy two layer ceiling job (I left some nasty gaps) showing just how restrained the first layer of tape/mud should be. He'll do the edge beads tomorrow, and the 2nd layer of mud. I didn't find a single blob of mud on the floor...
The hole in the foreground has been a bit distorted by the pano shot, but he's trimmed it out perfectly for the ATMOS ceiling "height" speaker that will live there.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Holy cow those QNAP NAS are a bit spendy!

But I did find the QNAP TS-451+ 4-Bay Next Gen Personal Cloud NAS, Intel 2.0GHz Quad-Core CPU with Media Transcoding on Amazon for $450 without drives. I have two 2TB drives right now but haven't bought the NAS yet. I was just looking a USB3.0 5-bay HDD enclosure to plug into my WiFi router for $100. Now you've got me thinking about the TS-451+ since it has the ability to output HDMI directly and supports 7.1 surround sound. But for my current needs I'm not sure it gives me anything I don't get from our Amazon Fire Stick plugged into the TV since I don't have a surround sound system set up. And my ethernet cable is CAT5 so I can't even fully support Gigabit let alone 10Gbe. I'm not sure I can even easily pull new CAT6 or fiber to the wall jack under the TV now. Well, I could go through the joists and down... but man, I'm just not sure it's worth it... in this house. It is something else I will probably file away for future use in the next house.

I wonder how hard it is to get a Gigabit network set up in the next house and run fiber out to the garage and the detached barn shop? This is all previsionary at this point, but my goal is to have 3-5 acres and have the barn shop a good 200'-300' feet away from the house mostly for noise abatement.

 

[jeremy_cherokee]

Random factoid - You can run an NVidia Shield as a Plex server natively and forgo the NUC. Also extremely low power because it is a mobile GPU chipset. I use mine to access content all over the world. It can also double as a Smart Things Hub.

I noticed that when I setup my Shield over the weekend. I'm a fan of dedicated VM for this, but that's a really good option for a LOT of people. Because of the GPU I bet it does transcoding extremely well, too.

Jeremy, there really should be some kind of award for the perseverance of enduring this entire thread I'm really glad you could take some useful bits from it. I think the duct mufflers represent the cheapest/fastest buzz for one's buck when trying to isolate theater noise from multistory HVAC. It's very satisfying as the mud goes on (not by me, thank goodness!!) to see how the various sound control bits are coming together as a system.

Like you, I've been messing with HTPC builds for a few yrs now, but actually end up using a few Nexus (android) units for Kodi and now Terrarium over various HTPC builds. They're about the size of a hockey puck, use next to no power, and just work. I have a full blown editing computer about 5 ft behind the basement media rack with dual Nvidia cards for processing, etc. I'll have that connected up to the AVR. I've done a few reviews for QNAP along with a six part blog series on 10Gbe Ethernet (https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tags/Cinevate) so they were gracious enough to supply me with a few NAS units, both 10Gbe equipped. The NAS units actually work quite nicely as HTPC units...and host archives of all of our family photos/videos. That will be hooked up into the system too as we do get a kick out of exploring family history as the girls grow up

Johnnie, I ended up buying the 2 Nexus players (they were cheap near the end of production), which seem quite happy now with Android 8. Nvidia must of sold a boat load of Shields as they are without question the defacto box to get these days...just a bit more pricey. The shield should be miles faster with respect to hardware for ST than the hub ST is using!

With the theater going ATMOS, I suppose I'll either have to buy blu-rays for the full Monty experience, or wait for some streaming alternatives. There's a Sony 4K bluray player (with ATMOS support) sitting in a box waiting to get hooked up With respect to streaming ATMOS stuff there's not much right now...just Netflix on a few titles with select (Xbox One, 2017 LG OLED TVs) devices. Other than carpet, the budget is max'd out for now, so those bits will need to wait.

Speaking of theaters, my drywall guru Bob applied his artistry to layer one of tape and mud today. It's pretty awesome to see a master at work. I was relegated to dump duty getting a solid truckload of old basement out to landfill today.

Bob has taken my rather shoddy two layer ceiling job (I left some nasty gaps) showing just how restrained the first layer of tape/mud should be. He'll do the edge beads tomorrow, and the 2nd layer of mud. I didn't find a single blob of mud on the floor...
The hole in the foreground has been a bit distorted by the pano shot, but he's trimmed it out perfectly for the ATMOS ceiling "height" speaker that will live there.

The duct muffler definitely looks like it's a great idea. I REALLY wish I would have caught that before sealing up the ceiling :-(

See, I figured you had something there as an HTPC. I hear everyone rave about the QNAP stuff and that would work really well with Kodi. I used Kodi (XBMC) for years but started travelling for work and really wanted to stream my content while away and that's why I transitioned to Plex. I know you can use both, but I don't like inconsistencies like that and I really like Plex.

I really thought about starting to go the 4K route but there's just not enough out there yet to make me feel compelled to convert. The picture is great, but, really, so is 1080. I'm excited to hear your analysis of the ATMOS system the first time you get to use it. Should be a really nice setup!

Holy cow those QNAP NAS are a bit spendy!

But I did find the QNAP TS-451+ 4-Bay Next Gen Personal Cloud NAS, Intel 2.0GHz Quad-Core CPU with Media Transcoding on Amazon for $450 without drives. I have two 2TB drives right now but haven't bought the NAS yet. I was just looking a USB3.0 5-bay HDD enclosure to plug into my WiFi router for $100. Now you've got me thinking about the TS-451+ since it has the ability to output HDMI directly and supports 7.1 surround sound. But for my current needs I'm not sure it gives me anything I don't get from our Amazon Fire Stick plugged into the TV since I don't have a surround sound system set up. And my ethernet cable is CAT5 so I can't even fully support Gigabit let alone 10Gbe. I'm not sure I can even easily pull new CAT6 or fiber to the wall jack under the TV now. Well, I could go through the joists and down... but man, I'm just not sure it's worth it... in this house. It is something else I will probably file away for future use in the next house.

I wonder how hard it is to get a Gigabit network set up in the next house and run fiber out to the garage and the detached barn shop? This is all previsionary at this point, but my goal is to have 3-5 acres and have the barn shop a good 200'-300' feet away from the house mostly for noise abatement.

I used to have something small as my file server like that. It was a mini-ITX motherboard in a bigphoenix case and had I think 5 x 1 TB green drives in it. Well ... blu rays, even when compressed, take up space and I filled that in no time. And now I have a "legit" file server with a decent amount of space (that I'm already almost filling up). It's another rabbit hole, and it happens to be an expensive one. My dream, too, is to have a few acres with a shop a few hundred feet away. Partially because it'd be nice to have the separation, partially because I think it'd pose new challenges from a technical standpoint and I'd love to work on those challenges.

Basement is looking great denwood!

 

[djbmusicworkshop]

I wonder how hard it is to get a Gigabit network set up in the next house and run fiber out to the garage and the detached barn shop? This is all previsionary at this point, but my goal is to have 3-5 acres and have the barn shop a good 200'-300' feet away from the house mostly for noise abatement.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NMAB2W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

has the StarTech.com converter on the page as well. A couple of Ethernet cables and you're set.

 

[JohnnieMo]

The Shield is a pretty powerful device and it says it can serve 5 1080p media streams at one time. I have no reason not to believe that. We will often be playing a movie in one room and playing games on the Shield at the same time. Never a hiccup. However I have discovered if I take it off the internet (as I do when we go camping), it can't serve more than a single 720p video. I'm not sure why, but I assume it is using some internet codec it can't access. Even using my phone to give it internet fixes the problem. I know its not uploading any video to the internet, so it must be a wonky connection thing.

One way to cheapen up the Shield is to just buy the 16GB version ($279 CAD). It has a very cool feature where you can expand your memory with an SD card. The OS creates a RAID across the various storage devices to create a single drive. Then you just add a USB hard drive for external media. Up time is terrific. Far more reliable than my PC ever was. Anyways, I'm not trying to convert anyone, just present the data for those thinking about it.

--

Side note, I picked up one of these Sengled LED bulbs as a test. $12 on Amazon.ca.



I got it mostly to help extend and strengthen my Zigbee mesh. In testing with my ST motion sensor I was getting response time through a CoRE subroutine consistently under 1 second. I think if I wanted to use these in more spaces, I could get away with it. It does get really hot though and I want to determine why. 9W shouldn’t be hot to the touch. I plan to test if it is really using 9W.

As for the issue where they turn on after power outage - that makes sense to me. If it is on a switched circuit, a layman would expect the bulb to turn on if you flipped the switch on. That would be the expected behavior. Unfortunately a power outage is the same as flipping a switch off (to the bulb) so it defaults to the least disruptive behavior. I think the best situation would be to run it this way but with a CoRE piston to double check it if there is no motion etc.

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: happy to hear your drywall guy is taking care of all the mudding and taping. i know you worked your **** off getting that double layer of rock with all that sound deadening stuff you did too so you need to relax and smell the roses and plan for the next phase.

are the girls painting it or are you hiring that job out or doing it yourself?

i love when the rock goes up and the mudding and taping is done on a project and hopefully i didn't forget to install something. i hope you didn't forget to put in extra mounts or enough electrical stuff which i'm guessing you didn't.

keep up the great work!!

 

[BoilermakerFan]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NMAB2W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

has the StarTech.com converter on the page as well. A couple of Ethernet cables and you're set.

Thanks djb. A high end home network is one of those rabbit holes that I DIDN'T fall down into. My feet punched through the ground, but I caught myself before I slipped down the hole. My feet dangled for a bit before I pulled myself back onto solid ground.

That is a lot easier and more reasonably priced than I imagined too. I'll definitely be running fiber to my future outbuildings, then setting up local WiFi in those buildings.

 

[Denwood]

Djb, pretty hard to beat fiber and SFP

Johnnie, great info on the shield . The Nexus boxes are aging quickly with respect to tech.

Zigbee bulbs can get hot. GE is the worst, Hue runs coolest. A bit of dimming (10%) makes a big difference. Dimming a 9w Zigbee LED 50% cuts power use to about 4.5 Watts. I posted tests over at ST forum. The “autoDimmer” app dynamically dims most of our Lights using LUX info from the weather tile app pointing to a nearby Weather Underground station. This works great to dynamically set light levels based on time of day, and actual outside ambient light levels

The only way to get fast response (local processing) from ST is to use the Smart Lighting app, with fully supported bulbs. So no custom device handlers. The Smart Lighting app is the only thing running locally, but only in each instance where fully supported hardware is used. I use it for most of the basic light and on / off stuff.

Hue is 100% local, therefore pretty much instant on.

Drives, color is a sticky issue as I need wife approval...and the room really should be painted as dark as possible for projection. We’re moving towards a multi-Grey scheme. I’ll be spraying with help from the girls. Last mud coat tomorrow, so paint will come quickly

I framed in extra reinforcement (before drywall) for the tv mount, motorized screen, recessed ceiling projector mount, fireplace etc. Two circuits were added from the panel, as well as ceiling boxes for the projector power, screen, TV and LeD lighting. Front and rear false walls/valence will hide acoustic treatments, speakers and all the cabling. It was a lot of extra detail work for sure . I spent a lot of time staring at plans etc to make sure i didn’t miss anything. The conduit runs I installed actually have zero wire run through..they are strictly for future proofing.

Boiler, I ran cat5e something like 13 yrs back in conduit to my shop when doing the gas line. I only terminated it last yr so was happy to see everything worked. Surge protect at both ends and you’re good to go. I think key is running conduit, a strong pull cord, and leaving room for future runs. I’m using an EX7000 wired access point out there to provide 5 more LAN ports and AC1900 Wi-Fi. 500 Mbps to iOS is quite zippy.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Boiler, I ran cat5e something like 13 yrs back in conduit to my shop when doing the gas line. I only terminated it last yr so was happy to see everything worked. Surge protect at both ends and you’re good to go. I think key is running conduit, a strong pull cord, and leaving room for future runs. I’m using an EX7000 wired access point out there to provide 5 more LAN ports and AC1900 Wi-Fi. 500 Mbps to iOS is quite zippy.

I have Cat5 out to the garage. Actually two runs, one is ethernet and the other is phone, and it's in 3/4" conduit. My garage is only 40' from the house so one of my 5G WiFi points covers the garage. I have 500Mbps broadband service too. My Asus router yields faster speeds than the 5G built in to service provider's box, but in the garage from that AP I still get 240-300Mbps on most days. Good enough for streaming Spotify to a BT speaker.

All of my Cat5 is terminated the same so I could make either run the phone, but I differentiated the two with different colors, both on the cable and on the jacks. I used a 66 punch down block for the phone because it allowed me to have up to four phones lines and over 15 jacks. In 2000 my house was state of the art WRT to ethernet and phone wiring. When I had a home office I had 3 phone lines. One for the house, one for the home office, and a dedicated fax line. Funny how quickly that became obsolete. We still have the land line and I still have my 2-line phone out in the garage. My wife won't give up the land line. I laugh because it's through the broadband now so when we lose power we lose the land line... no point to having it, but she won't let it go.

Now when I move and I finally get to build my barn shop with the entertainment room above it, I will pull fiber in conduit to the upstairs of the shop, then add a switch to run a few WiFi points throughout both levels.

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: sounds like you've got it all planned out pretty well and i'm guessing you have wireless or speaker wires to every corner too?

not sure if you have any re sellers in your area for old theater chairs or if you've already bought the furniture, but we get rows of old 1950's theater chairs that show up for almost free around here. not the most comfortable so probably not an option, but thought i'd mention it.

hope you (and the girls) and the GENERAL love the room when you start using it cause it's going to get there soon at the pace you are going.

it snowed down here last night a little so guessing it's getting cold up in your part of the world. that new fireplace in the new room should be nice.

cheers

 

[Denwood]

Drives, yes speaker wire (definitely no wireless!!), LFE (subwoofer)RG6 runs to both ends of the room, extra cat5e, and redundant spkr wire runs are all in place.

For now seating will the leather sectional I found on Kijiji last year. The room will be used by the kids too if course, so at least for now we’re trying to keep seating family friendly

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: yep i seem to remember you buying the sofa type movie theater chairs maybe last year, but hadn't seen them for a while so didn't know if the plan to use them had changed.

i have to say that I'M JEALOUS of your new THEATER/MUSIC room and hope it works as well as you hope it will.

have any snow yet?

cheers

 

[Denwood]

Drives, it's dipping below zero every night (so some snow), but melting quickly during the day. Bob (drywall master) is telling me one more coat still..so no painting this weekend :-(

That sectional is sitting at the Cinevate studio in storage. I'd really like to do staged seating, but it's hard to do in that room with the openings as they are. I'm still thinking hard about some arrangement that takes us from seating for six, to a very open floor (so the kids can play). Haven't quite sorted the concept yet.

Things are looking awesome though. Cinevate has a big show in Toronto (Vistek's Profusion show) next week so business calls. Our new product has been getting rave reviews..and sales are building to reflect.

Check out this super cool time lapse perched on a 1000ft cliff overlooking Thunder Bay. This is our magnetic inductive braking camera slider with full motion control...

https://vimeo.com/236924432

 

[Innov8tive1]

Dennis, I'm really surprised I haven't "lurked" across your build before this. I'm not far from you in Fort Frances. If I had to describe your garage reno in one word, that would have to be inspiring! I'm always complaining about not having enough space in my garage........and it's 24'x36' with 10' ceilings. My biggest problem is not having sufficient and properly designed storage. I am slowly working on it but all to often life gets in the way.
The other problem, much like yourself, is that I take on many many different types of work. Everything from woodwork, electronic repair, welding, repair and maintenance of all of our vehicles including tractors, building and installing custom car audio, installing remote car starters........the list goes on. And I've so far painted two vehicles in there with another major rebuild starting soon.
All I can say is wow! You've done an amazing job of making maximum use of your space and done it with expert workmanship!

 

[JohnnieMo]

Djb, pretty hard to beat fiber and SFP

Johnnie
Zigbee bulbs can get hot. GE is the worst, Hue runs coolest. A bit of dimming (10%) makes a big difference. Dimming a 9w Zigbee LED 50% cuts power use to about 4.5 Watts. I posted tests over at ST forum. The “autoDimmer” app dynamically dims most of our Lights using LUX info from the weather tile app pointing to a nearby Weather Underground station. This works great to dynamically set light levels based on time of day, and actual outside ambient light levels

The only way to get fast response (local processing) from ST is to use the Smart Lighting app, with fully supported bulbs. So no custom device handlers. The Smart Lighting app is the only thing running locally, but only in each instance where fully supported hardware is used. I use it for most of the basic light and on / off stuff.

Hue is 100% local, therefore pretty much instant on.

A few posts back you mentioned that you have good luck with the Hue bulbs but using the ST motion sensors. Does this constitute local processing?

I did confirm the bulb is using 9W. I am surprised how hot it gets. So long as it is delivering on the 9W promise I am pleased.



I will admit that $12 looks a lot better than $30+ for a Hue setup. However I do trust your experience on these matters.

If we run the math and assume I am running a 9W bulb for 24 hours a day, and I cut that to a 50% duty cycle using automation, at 7.5 cents per kWh it would take 41 years to pay off the $12 price of the bulb. If I went to a $30 Hue bulb it would be 102 years.

Obviously there is no reason to do this for cost reasons. So convenience / reliability is the only thing to consider. It sounds like Hue owns the game with regards to reliability. Or said another way: The Hue bulbs lower your blood pressure.

When I do this it will be Hue and it will be for convenience and reliability.

 

[Denwood]

Innov, first of all, thanks for the kind words. We have family in FF so are there quite often. Summer on Rainy Lake is world class . I would be very, very happy in a 24 x36 shop! I’ve painted three vehicles in the 16x24 which was not super enjoyable, ha. It’s always nice to hear that the thread has some value to others..also great motivation to post . Once you work out a LEAN workspace, you’ll never go back. Start with an “everything on wheels” and/or off the floor philosophy and that space will become enormous.

Johnnie, EDIT: Hue hub devices are not local to ST, (EDIT: bit WILL be local as of firmware update in November 2017) but they do function with local processing on the HUE hub itself, and anything you automate in the HUE app. You add Hue bulbs to the Hue Hub, then add them to ST. Hue’s motion sensor (attached to Hue hub) is a better solution yet as you can add time parameter, ambient light settings, and motion sensitivity all from the Hue hub. The batteries lasts a lot longer (2 AAA) and they have required zero resets. Remember the Hue white bulb is $14, so the least expensive of the lot. Looking back, i just wish I had bought Hue only :-(

I imagine I sound like a broken record but truly, the other bulbs are all automation fails for various reasons. Repeated intervention to “fix” bulbs is frustrating, particularly if you have a house full. Hue has been set and forget..as it should be. There are about 20 Hue devices in the home system (of about 100 devices total) and zero resets or any kind of interaction has been required in over a yr. Pretty much all of the Zwave stuff including locks, same thing. I’d say on average every 4-5 days an ST branded sensor or device needs a battery removal and reset. The two water sensors are my favorite...resets every month or two.

Use these two tools to see what devices and apps are actually running locally on SmartThings. Remember that using any non-standard app, device driver, or even app feature will disqualify it from local processing.

Apps:
https://graph.api.smartthings.com/localInstalledSmartApp/list

Devices:
https://graph.api.smartthings.com/localDevice/list

Conversely, if your bulb/motion sensor/switch is attached and managed by the HUE hub, it is 100% local processing via the HUE hub and will not require a web connection to function. Bulbs attached to the HUE hub can be seen and therefore automated via the ST hub. Did I mention you should just use HUE bulbs? Ha.

In my case, only 7 of 30 or more automations run locally :-(

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Thanks to Denwood I've taken the plunge and ordered a reman HUE hub off Groupon. For $34 shipped I could resist. I'll add bulbs later when the basement remodel is finished.

 

[Denwood]

Boiler, the Hue hub integrates well with pretty much any automation hub out there..and can travel with you to the new house when you're ready Perhaps I should be seeking out a Hue commission arrangement..ha.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Boiler, the Hue hub integrates well with pretty much any automation hub out there..and can travel with you to the new house when you're ready Perhaps I should be seeking out a Hue commission arrangement..ha.

That's the plan. I'll primarily use the Hue bulbs in the can lights that will be installed in the basement ceiling when that is put in. I'll probably change the switch out for a tandem switch in a single box so I can have one circuit of normal LED floods and then have the HUE circuit so I can dim them down for movies in the basement. I'll probably put Hue bulbs in my daughter's ceiling light too. Even though she is away at Purdue, my son is so used to her light being on he turns it on at night sometimes and doesn't turn it off when he goes to bed so I have to go upstairs and turn it off. The Hue bulbs would let me turn it off remotely.

 

[Denwood]

Boiler, just be careful not to fall down the automation rabbit hole too far

The Missus asked me to make a grocery run last night. Driving her CRV in the freezing slush, I realised pretty much straight away that her "4 season" winter rated tires were done. This was the first time I've tried this type of tire and won't purchase them again. Essentially it's a softer compound tire that works nicely in the winter, but wears out far too quickly...like 40 000km (24 000 miles).

Surfing Kijiji last night, I found a fellow selling a set of alloy rims and winter tires (205/65 R16 Toyo Observe G-02 Plus) that were used on a 2013 Venza. A bit of internet research revealed that they should fit our 2003 CRV (15" alloys) , with only a small difference of 7mm ET on the offset. Firing up the hoist, I confirmed the best deal ever on rims/tires. $350. This setup runs about $1500 (CAD) by the time you get done with mounting, balancing and our 13% sales tax. I'm guessing they were used for 10 months. The wheel on the car is "new", the one on the ground stock Honda. They fit like a glove Most drivers here mount winters on steel black rims (they're cheap) which, call me shallow, look terrible.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Boiler, just be careful not to fall down the automation rabbit hole too far

The Missus asked me to make a grocery run last night. Driving her CRV in the freezing slush, I realised pretty much straight away that her "4 season" winter rated tires were done. This was the first time I've tried this type of tire and won't purchase them again. Essentially it's a softer compound tire that works nicely in the winter, but wears out far too quickly...like 40 000km (24 000 miles).

Surfing Kijiji last night, I found a fellow selling a set of alloy rims and winter tires (205/65 R16 Toyo Observe G-02 Plus) that were used on a 2013 Venza. A bit of internet research revealed that they should fit our 2003 CRV (15" alloys) , with only a small difference of 7mm ET on the offset. Firing up the hoist, I confirmed the best deal ever on rims/tires. $350. This setup runs about $1500 (CAD) by the time you get done with mounting, balancing and our 13% sales tax. I'm guessing they were used for 10 months. The wheel on the car is "new", the one on the ground stock Honda. They fit like a glove Most drivers here mount winters on steel black rims (they're cheap) which, call me shallow, look terrible.

No worries Dennis... I'm chasing vintage fans now thanks to F'in Gregor. And I went down the HA path about 17 years ago... All X10 at the time, but my wife HATED it and made me tear it all out. Well, I left the bridge attached to the loadcenter since it was drywalled in place. That's why I'll have 2 separate lighting circuits too. One "normal" one and the Hue circuit. The next house will be set up the same way... His and Hers lighting. I will have a little more automation in the next house since the plan is to have soar PV, solar hot water and a residential wind turbine, but that will be more for monitoring and security than anything else.

Fantastic score on the winter shoes! I had a set of Maxxis UHP All Season tires on my 2012 Focus. They were amazing in the rain even in winter, but as soon as it snowed, they were horrible. I switched to Yokohama All Seasons and they actually work in the snow, but the wet braking is worse than the Maxxis tires. I had to retrain myself how to drive in the rain with the new tires... The wet emergency stopping distance was probably 20% longer than dry and a good 30% longer than the old Maxxis tires in the rain. Now the Focus is my daughter's car and it's parked in the driveway while she's at college and I have a 2017 Forrester. I decided that after driving a 2004 Audi A4 Quattro and a 2006 Honda Pilot before the Focus, I will never own a FWD only DD vehicle again. They will be either AWD or 4x4 from here on out. I didn't realize how spoiled I had gotten with AWD until it was gone...

 

[djbmusicworkshop]

On the topic of lightbulbs... I too can attest to the solidity of the Hue system. Another solid bet is the Lutron Caseta switches. They've been every bit as solid as the Hue stuff (I have both in my house). I first installed the Caseta stuff for my parents. They needed a light with a spare switch. The entire setup took minutes and they had a "coming and going" setup. Same deal with their bedroom ceiling light which they can now both turn off from their bedside as well as the wall switch. They don't use the bridge, but I installed one for myself not long after and they've been rock solid. I'll spare you the why I rely on the lights turning on and off at specific times, but I do, and I can't just hit a switch during those times to correct something that goes wrong. reliability is a must.

The downside of the Caseta stuff is how it does dimming...essentially turning things on and off at varying rates. You have to watch the inrush current rate for the LED bulbs you use or they will buzz. Caseta provides a "compatibility list" and lots of stuff works perfectly, but it is a detail you'd need to track.

Last but not least if you want a really well thought out system for lighting check out http://lumencache.lighting/why-lumencache/ It's a beautiful system... if a bit pricey at this point. But it does tie everything together nicely, provide easy flexibility and control. Sweet!

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: for maybe the last 20 years all i've bought are all weather Michelin tires for my Honda CRV's and Pilot. I had a set of extra stock wheels for a set of studded tires that i only used i think 2 times when it snowed over a foot and stuck around for more than a day. with my manual 1998 CRV and studs i rescued more than a few friends and clients that couldn't get out of their driveway and I brought them groceries or maybe chains.

it was sort of like skiing on those hilly streets that hadn't seen another car's tires so i had fun myself besides handing off supplies to happy people.

looks like you found some good winter replacements for your wife's CRV. what brand tires do you put on your Audi?

i'm liking all this TECH TALK and one of these days i'll be checking into it for my own personal use.

Snowed in Seattle yesterday in my area all day and 15 miles north in downtown it didn't snow at all.

 

[JohnnieMo]

I imagine I sound like a broken record but truly, the other bulbs are all automation fails for various reasons. Repeated intervention to “fix” bulbs is frustrating, particularly if you have a house full.

Broken record? Nah.... I trust your experience. You haven't led me astray yet! The only reason I would like the ST motion sensors is for the home security aspect. If I can't use the Hue motion sensor as part of my security network (i.e. detect motion, send a notification) then it's only doing half the job.

For automation, the Hue hub and bulbs (or switches) are the ticket. I still think I prefer to do relays or switches rather than bulbs, but we'll see. First I need to stock up the "home automation" bank account.

Good find on the winter rubber. Many years ago I turned to Kijiji and scored a set of 18" Toyota Matrix rims and separately a set of perfectly matched Blizzaks. That saved me $1000 easy and I'm still running them today on the Vibe. I am a big believer in winter tires (which necessitates rims). That partially explains my tire addiction....

 

[Denwood]

Djb, I’ve only heard good things about Lutron, but have had zero experience with it. Hopefully that info will prove useful to others reading this. HD locally stocks quite a few Caseta and Lutron products.

Drives, Michelins always test well and seem consistently well rated..can’t go wrong. Unlike our CRV, my Audi is not AWD. The TDI is FWD only. 99% of the time that is ok, but even with dedicated winters (Italian manufacturer, Marangoni) there have been a few steep hills I’ve had to turn away from in winter storms. The CRV on the other hand seems unstoppable in even deep snow. I’m knee deep in a Toronto trade show, but the Missus will
get a first blast of snow tonight at home.

Johnnie, my experience with Zwave relays has been good, so I don’t thing you will go wrong there. You are quite right with respect to ST motion sensors and security as per the built in “security” features of ST, but don’t rely on it. DSC systems that we use on the commercial side are rock solid reliable, and are vastly better designed than ST for security. That said, as you populate a few of the motion sensors you will start using them in concert with each other. An example is that the “Good Night” routine is executed if no motion is detected on any of four main floor sensors for 30 minutes, after 9pm. This puts the house in night mode, checks all the locks, arms the system. In night mode only select lights come on with motion, and usually 90% dimmed. Keeps the kids and wife happy.

 

[Innov8tive1]

Thanks Jim.

The freshly ground slab needs sealing. It's dipping to -30C nightly, making tile or epoxy very difficult. The bright white floor I'm seeking will be achieved with several coats of concrete stain-sealer. My pal Dean at Kam Industrial (local) suggested Increte stain-sealer which will give me a floor that is bright, resistant to brake fluid, gasoline, oil, salt etc, but a penetrating finish that won't be affected by large temperature swings above and below freezing.

http://www.increte.com/professional-products/stains-and-dyes/concrete-stain-sealer/

I know this is going back a ways, but how is the concrete stain/sealer holding up? I need to do something in my shop and this looked to me like a decent solution with less messing around than with epoxies etc.

 

[drivesitfar]

Woody: i haven't a CLUE even though i've participated and watched your thread for a few years now how you manage to own and run a successful business while getting all this great stuff done at your home. i bet you don't watch a lot of TV, but still even that said you have coordinated your time management and projects to a fantastic level that inspires a lot of us to do better to maybe get close to yours.

with the first blast of snow in your area i hope your town's airports and roads are ready so it doesn't delay your trip plans or your wife's.

so if you like Michelins why don't you buy them or maybe they don't sell them in Canada?

best of luck with all the products you sell and are you the R&D too at your company or do others that work for you think of all the cool new products?

cheers