Making tool to prevent balljoints from spinning

[noid]

I am currently in the process of designing in CAD/making a tool that will grab and hold balljoints from spinning during install/removal (mostly removal). I am mainly making the tool for myself but thought others may like it also.

Normally upward pressure by a jack on the balljoint or a pry bar provides for sufficient friction to undo the balljoint nut, but in my experience (rust belt) from time to time, there have been nuts that were stuck enough where only cutting the shaft of the balljoint was the only option.

A couple questions I have for the group. Especially those working with suspension components daily:

1. Do you often find yourself in a situation where the jack, pry bar or locking pliers dont work? Would you find value in paying for a dedicated tool to prevent balljoints from spinning?

2. What would a tool like that be worth to you, assuming it was made in north america? If it is something people want, that would help me gauge to what extent to complicate the creation of the tool.

 

[Reese]

I don't seem to remember having much issue with ball joints spinning on either assembly or disassembly. I live in the rust belt and have owned some real **** over the years. I replaced the original front end on an 02 Windstar this summer with no issue.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Can’t beat a torch. Heat that nut bright red and zip it off with the impact. Never fails.

Look at the otc front end set. They have something you could use to keep tension on it. Sometimes squeezing them together or pulling them apart works. Depends on situation.

 

[lbhsbz]

There are far too many different designs out there to make a universal tool that will work on more than a handful of them I think.

 

[Schurkey]

The ball joint stud should be stuck in the matching taper of the steering knuckle. The nuts come right off--then you separate the tapers.

If the taper doesn't hold the stud, the taper in the knuckle is probably damaged. You're likely going to replace the knuckle to make the vehicle safe. A damaged taper can break the stud by concentrating stress on it.

I have--VERY rarely--seen studs that freed themselves from the undamaged taper before the nuts came completely off, but we put a jack on the control arm to force the tapers together, and oxy-acetylene on the nut. No need for a special tool.

I have seen some non-tapered studs, (primarily FWD econoboxes) but they aren't held in with a nut on the end of the stud, they're held in the knuckle with a sideways bolt and nut that crushes the knuckle casting around the stud by distorting it slightly.

In short, I don't think there's much market for a tool like you're designing, unless I don't understand the situation properly.

 

[noid]

Can’t beat a torch. Heat that nut bright red and zip it off with the impact. Never fails.

Look at the otc front end set. They have something you could use to keep tension on it. Sometimes squeezing them together or pulling them apart works. Depends on situation.

Sometimes the balljoint is just too close to the axle where you cant use a impact, nor would prefer to have heat that close to the boot.

I figure instead of having to cut it off, or mess with heat, it would be better to just use a tool to hold the balljoint from spinning.

 

[scubadoober]

Why not a nut splitter?

 

[WhiffySpark]

Sometimes the balljoint is just too close to the axle where you cant use a impact, nor would prefer to have heat that close to the boot.

I figure instead of having to cut it off, or mess with heat, it would be better to just use a tool to hold the balljoint from spinning.

That never stopped me honestly. Just turn the flame down. I’d aim it more to the diy crowd. They might even sell on here

 

[noid]

Why not a nut splitter?

Everytime I want to use my nut splitter, it never fits.

Good example below where you cant use a nut splitter or an impact wrench:

 

[General Geoff]

Everytime I want to use my nut splitter, it never fits.

Good example below where you cant use a nut splitter or an impact wrench:

Usually those types of ball joints have an internal hex on the top of the stud, so you can hold it stationary with an allen key while using a box end wrench to break the nut loose. In the event the OEM part doesn't have it, a reputable aftermarket supplier like MOOG probably makes a replacement that does.


If you're trying to remove one that doesn't have that, I've had success using a pair of Knipex Cobra pliers to grab onto the ball joint through the rubber boot to hold it still. Narrow-jawed vise-grips would work great as well.

 

[buffalobill]

Wreck the boot, tear it off and squeeze it with vise grips, if that doesn't work, torch or grinder.

 

[noid]

Usually those types of ball joints have an internal hex on the top of the stud, so you can hold it stationary with an allen key while using a box end wrench to break the nut loose. In the event the OEM part doesn't have it, a reputable aftermarket supplier like MOOG probably makes a replacement that does.


If you're trying to remove one that doesn't have that, I've had success using a pair of Knipex Cobra pliers to grab onto the ball joint through the rubber boot to hold it still. Narrow-jawed vise-grips would work great as well.

There is only a few mm between the axle and the balljoint, no room for allen or otherwise.

Vise grips couldn't hold it from spinning. Had to cut it off.

 

[buffalobill]

There ya go. No foolin the gas wrench!

 

[General Geoff]

There is only a few mm between the axle and the balljoint, no room for allen or otherwise.

That big shroud around the CV joint isn't rubber?

You could probably fit a stubby wrench in there. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006O4AII/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[noid]

That big shroud around the CV joint isn't rubber?

You could probably fit a stubby wrench in there. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006O4AII/?tag=atomicindus08-20

No, its the CV body.

The stubby wrenches definitely wouldn't fit. Even if they did im not sure an allen could keep the thing from spinning when corroded.

I guess the question boils down to, is there a desire or need for such a tool somewhere in between trying the conventional methods and reaching for the cutoff wheel/torch?

 

[sqaurelizard]

When im in the situation above a transmission jack underneath or trolley jack would prevent any spinning, am I missing something, (to explain my situation I am a full time mechanic of more than 10 years )

 

[Gmonkee]

If we are replacing the ball joint anyway I''ll whack it into the taper until it grabs tight again. Then whack it back loose with hardware removed.

Also a long prybar to pressure it or the Allen-torx if applicable. Never had to cut one.

But, I am interested in seeing your ideas. There might just be a better mousetrap in this.

 

[fourjeepin]

I've had this happen on my CJ, but just cut the top off with the grinder.

 

[General Geoff]

When im in the situation above a transmission jack underneath or trolley jack would prevent any spinning, am I missing something, (to explain my situation I am a full time mechanic of more than 10 years )

^^ This is a very good solution if there is clearance to get a jack onto the bottom of the control arm.

 

[noid]

^^ This is a very good solution if there is clearance to get a jack onto the bottom of the control arm.

This is the first thing I try before messing with anything else.

I'd imagine escalation wouldn't be as prevalent where roads aren't salted.

 

[sqaurelizard]

We get plenty of fairly rotten cars and jeeps imported from Scotland and even with that still haven't had to resort to cutting of other than some of the bmws that dont have a traditional taper. If its a top balljoint that ure struggling with normally you can jack against something with jack under and a block on top

 

[Musicinabottle]

There ya go. No foolin the gas wrench!

Amazing how that always emerges a winner!

 

[sqaurelizard]

love the gas torch in the right place when needed but plenty of times its not suitable

 

[Buckgnarly]

I would be very interested, have run into that situation OP but worst case I just burn off the nut and/or replace BJ....but do know what you are talking about.
Its sometimes made worse by cotter pins that do not come out, and don't get blown by by an impact, that is a few times I ran into myself where I could have used something to hold the tapered end.

More details/picks, and most importantly, a price point.

 

[noid]

We get plenty of fairly rotten cars and jeeps imported from Scotland and even with that still haven't had to resort to cutting of other than some of the bmws that dont have a traditional taper. If its a top balljoint that ure struggling with normally you can jack against something with jack under and a block on top

Some cars (like the one pictured), you cant remove the nut without first dislodging the balljoint from the knuckle. The nut can be backed off until the top threads, but from there it needs to drop down. In that application for those last threads, where the threads may be the most corroded, the only real options are either pry bar, or vise grips.

I would be very interested, have run into that situation OP but worst case I just burn off the nut and/or replace BJ....but do know what you are talking about.
Its sometimes made worse by cotter pins that do not come out, and don't get blown by by an impact, that is a few times I ran into myself where I could have used something to hold the tapered end.

More details/picks, and most importantly, a price point.

No pictures just yet.

I may be looking for testing volunteers in the near future.

 

[okie18]

Well with that picture being a vw, just pull knuckle off and you'll have plenty of room.
All the joints I've pulled that had the internal or external hex either rounded off or stripped out. So then it's either a combination of heat and a hammer or a cut off wheel.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[WhiffySpark]

That control arm has perfect slots for a 36 inch prybar lol

 

[Mr_B]

Everytime I want to use my nut splitter, it never fits.

Good example below where you cant use a nut splitter or an impact wrench:

simplest way on those is undo the bolts from the wishbone and the shaft nut and swing hub out so drive shaft removed and use stubby impact zip it off, I always tend replace them if look crusty or want reduce time and in that scenario zip um off with air saw and straight in with new parts .
Pinch clevis bolt or inverted BJ like subaru use way better design ...
Never had a BJ I could load with basic tools I already got such as slip joint pliers vise grips g-clamp etc etc.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Some cars (like the one pictured), you cant remove the nut without first dislodging the balljoint from the knuckle. The nut can be backed off until the top threads, but from there it needs to drop down. In that application for those last threads, where the threads may be the most corroded, the only real options are either pry bar, or vise grips.




No pictures just yet.

I may be looking for testing volunteers in the near future.

Sign me up!

 

[stikman56]

That example, just put a bottle jack under it, pressure on and it should come off. Never had an issue when pressure is pushing it in the hole, they have always come off.

 

[Finky198]

simplest way on those is undo the bolts from the wishbone and the shaft nut and swing hub out so drive shaft removed and use stubby impact zip it off, I always tend replace them if look crusty or want reduce time and in that scenario zip um off with air saw and straight in with new parts .
Pinch clevis bolt or inverted BJ like subaru use way better design ...
Never had a BJ I could load with basic tools I already got such as slip joint pliers vise grips g-clamp etc etc.

Not only do I agree with this cause that is how I did it on a friend older Honda. And a bunch of others, but it allows you to partially disassemble the front end and check for wear and other issue while doing the repair. Front end issue have a lot of cause and effect and sometimes digging deeper into a repair provide better insight. Then just replacing the part quickest way possible. Not that there isn’t a time and place for it. ( I’ve had a few brand new Ball joints fails before and its the pefect time to get it done quick) especially if you were just working on it. And know everything is sound.

I’ve use a pickle fork before and that works well I hammer it in tight on or near the taper similar to the prybar method but hands free once it’s in there.

I’d been interested in seeing what you come up with...

 

[Wesley B]

I can't picture the tool you're trying to make, but having done many of FWD/AWD transmissions, any tool to help deal with balljoints without damaging them, I would consider helpful.

 

[Daddy B]

I’m having this problem myself right now. The jack torch etc. ides don’t always work in every situation. I say go for it. I for one think it’s wonderful to have those tools that help you get out of sticky situations. Like bolt outs, broken stud removers etc. no one tool works for everything and the more options we have the better. Besides this is garage journal. The answer is always you need more tools. We also need more tools that aren’t yet available!

 

[noid]

A working model has been made and tested on a perfectly flat cylindrical surface.

Our force gauge only gets up to 50KG (~110LB), and we were able to get it up to 51KG before we stopped as to not over force the force gauge.

We suspect we can get much higher, and even more so as we start using higher grades of steel.

This tool will be just as effective in removing stripped bolts/nuts.

Stay tuned. A teaser attached.