snap on s80 not made in america??
- Thread starter tpolley
- Start date
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
interesting question.........i'm not sure, i'll think about it. but why should ANY parts be made in china? and more importantly why not be honest?
chadster1
Well-known member
Or lets take it one step further, what if the ratchet internals are imported but the body of the ratchet is made in Tennessee? How much of a price difference should there be? I do not think that there is anyone out there complaining about the QUALITY of any of the 80 series ratchets.
Just for the record, I wish that they would put the USA back on the ratchet so that discussions like this were not necessary.
krusty the clown
Member Emeritus
thats what i think we have here......and it's better than completely imported.
all of us do........
swoodworks
New member
I think what we are discussing here are consumer's rights. A guy wants to know where the tool he is thinking of purchasing was made. If that is a political topic to Bull then I think he will have to shut down this entire thread.
Manufacturers will work within a frame of rules. Those rules are created by government. If those rules don't require a manufacturer to detail COO in their lable they will not do so unless it is in their best interest and adds value to their product.
I think there are a large number of people out there who would like to make an informed decision when purchasing tools or anything for that matter. I visited this blog because it came up on a google search when I was looking for an american made cordless drill. With guys like Bull out there guiding discussion it is certain any critical discussion will be cut off. Good luck folks I for one will look elsewhere for a open forum.
Manufacturers will work within a frame of rules. Those rules are created by government. If those rules don't require a manufacturer to detail COO in their lable they will not do so unless it is in their best interest and adds value to their product.
I think there are a large number of people out there who would like to make an informed decision when purchasing tools or anything for that matter. I visited this blog because it came up on a google search when I was looking for an american made cordless drill. With guys like Bull out there guiding discussion it is certain any critical discussion will be cut off. Good luck folks I for one will look elsewhere for a open forum.
if to trade the 2 cents worth of couple screws for not to have "USA" stamped on the ratchet, Snap On is simply telling you how much "USA" is worth.
I think bull was referencing the small section where we stopped talking about the COO of dual 80's and drifted into the Political, Union talk. I personally dont think anything got out of hand, No one got beligerant with anyone. So in the end it was all good... But im not a mod so that is there decision to make.
My guess is that the ratchet mechanism is made in China. And the reason that Snap-on doesn't make it here is probably because they can't; it's protected by patent. Sometimes a manufacturer will simply not license another to make their patented product. Or perhaps it was just cheaper to buy the ratchet guts rather than license the patent. I would gather that this is pretty much the same reason that the Chinese have a lock on the ratchet wrench market...or at the very least on the internals of these wrenches.
This is an area where the Gearwrench folks have really hit a home run; by patenting these mechanisms in a design that makes so much more sense than any alternate methods that anybody has yet to dream up, they have created a monopoly.
Why Snap-on has not been more honest about this is beyond me, but I would bet that they really don't want to spend money to publicize something they are not too proud of; better to just say nothing. It is after all, still a fine product, that no one is doing anything but rave about.
benjamming
Well-known member
If that is the case, SO can invent a better mouse trap. That is American ingenuity & one thing that has put us on the map.
What about the ones that did have USA on them? Did they just get caught or saw where another company got caught & put their house in order?
Danaher also makes the mechanisms in the US for their Armstrong branded ratcheting wrenches and some Matco and C-Man ones as well.
A ton of ratcheting wrenches are also manufactured in Taiwan (Some GearWrench & Matco, SK, EZ-Red, Blue-Point, Blackhawk, Crescent, etc.)
EXACTLY! We are talking about the Inventor of many of the tools in use today! Their R&D budget has to be orders of magnitude larger than anyone else..
superautobacs
Well-known member
Perhaps the USA marking was not likened by the Taiwanese supplier of the ratcheting parts.
Merkava_4
Banned
Here's more correspondence:
December 10, 2009 22:30:46 PM GMT
December 11, 2009 6:38:12 AM PST
December 10, 2009 22:30:46 PM GMT
Hi,
Question: Can you tell me if the RKRF80 and RKRS80 ratchet service kits are made at your Elisabethton, TN facility? Thank you.
December 11, 2009 6:38:12 AM PST
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Zrexxer
Well-known member
Maybe they don't have time to make it all here because they're too busy answering emails from Garage Journal members... 
Merkava_4
Banned
Maybe they don't have time to make it all here because they're too busy answering emails from Garage Journal members...
LOL!!
Not really important for you guys...but i asked my so dealer yesterday how much a sh80 costs in germany
anwer: 180 euro + 19% tax ---> about 320$
That's very relevant.. I'm sure you in Germany would feel a bit ripped off if you paid $320 for a ratchet to find it's internals are form China, right?
But that's interesting that the service kit is US made... Which begs the question, why no USA stamp? And if it's because they're getting away from USA stamp... then why is it still on some of their other ratchets and wrenches?
Merkava_4
Banned
If anybody wants the unedited version of those e-mails, just let me know - I'll PM them to you. I edit them a little bit to make them easier to read.
What, do you think I own this site?
"Guys like Bull..." yada yada yada.
I am enforcing the ADMINISTRATOR'S/OWNER'S rules.
Give me a break.
Oh, and yes Hiball, that is the part of the thread that I was referring to. Thank you.
The idea is to prevent anything from getting out of hand by avoiding the banned topics in the first place, not to run around and keep stamping out fires after they have started.
"Guys like Bull..." yada yada yada.
I am enforcing the ADMINISTRATOR'S/OWNER'S rules.
Give me a break.
Oh, and yes Hiball, that is the part of the thread that I was referring to. Thank you.
The idea is to prevent anything from getting out of hand by avoiding the banned topics in the first place, not to run around and keep stamping out fires after they have started.
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What, do you think I own this site?
"Guys like Bull..." yada yada yada.
I am enforcing the ADMINISTRATOR'S/OWNER'S rules.
Give me a break.
I understand that... I was a moderator for years on Flightinfo.com and finally got sick of carrying their water... the admin was far too lax on the civility rules and I got sick of enforcing rules that the webmaster didn't even support me on.
To be fair, the no politics rule here needs to be explained better.. I got hit once for breaking it (before I knew it existed) because I specifically named politician's names, and that's fair enough, but I've seen people on here totally go on a rant that clearly speaks of one political parties view, and even after reporting one such post, nothing happened.... so I assumed that it's fair game to get into political issues, so long as no candidates, office holders or reference to Dems or Repubs was made.. Right? or?
No sir, that is not correct. The rule, as written by the admin/owner, is stated in two words: No Politics.
That's it. Anything that starts to get political, even a little, I have to take notice of and potentially act on, because that is what I volunteered to help with. I'll gladly be the punching bag (I punch back, sometimes) if it relieves pressure on Ryan, who was getting so sick of the politics and other BS on here that he wanted to close Free Parking down entirely. That would ****.
Discussions about unions are almost guaranteed to become political, even if it isn't inherently political on its own.
That's it. Anything that starts to get political, even a little, I have to take notice of and potentially act on, because that is what I volunteered to help with. I'll gladly be the punching bag (I punch back, sometimes) if it relieves pressure on Ryan, who was getting so sick of the politics and other BS on here that he wanted to close Free Parking down entirely. That would ****.
Discussions about unions are almost guaranteed to become political, even if it isn't inherently political on its own.
There are ways of discussing COO without getting political.
I don't mind people voicing their opinion but can totally understand why Ryan uses the rules he does.
I agree Bull. For the most part posters do a good job of monitoring themselves but somehow it always seems to go off the rails.
As far as the F80's, the thing I find the most odd is that they used the "USA" for a time and then discontinued it. I would think there would be something behind the decision beside the idea of they didn't like how the logo looked.
I would guess they were/are planning on shifting production or it had some material content that was foreign (even though S/O told Merk it wasn't) and they decided to play it safe with the FTC after what happened to Stanley.
I don't mind people voicing their opinion but can totally understand why Ryan uses the rules he does.
I agree Bull. For the most part posters do a good job of monitoring themselves but somehow it always seems to go off the rails.
As far as the F80's, the thing I find the most odd is that they used the "USA" for a time and then discontinued it. I would think there would be something behind the decision beside the idea of they didn't like how the logo looked.
I would guess they were/are planning on shifting production or it had some material content that was foreign (even though S/O told Merk it wasn't) and they decided to play it safe with the FTC after what happened to Stanley.
BanjoSavesTheDay
Well-known member
I received this in response to a question I had about USA not stamped on Dual 80's:
I'm not trying to stir anything else up, I just thought this was worthy of being included in the record so to speak.
I'm not trying to stir anything else up, I just thought this was worthy of being included in the record so to speak.
Man there is alot of slippery phrases in that quote, I think Snap on Should take some lessons from Mark McGwire. The Truth shall set you free........ On a side note it sounds like Tim is about to Crack, If this is the same guy in customer service his next response is gonna start out like this. [crying in the background] Whennn [hard breathing] I was 7 years old i killed a Black Bird and all its babies... I. I... I.. Never told anyone.. this before. LOL Keep on him he is about to crack and spill all the gory details.
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chadster1
Well-known member
If I ever meet Tim at one of the national conferences, I am going to buy him a beer. He sure answers a lot of emails.
Titus
Well-known member
chadster1
Well-known member
I wonder if he has any clue that he is some what of a celebrity around GJ.
I will definitely tell him.
norry
Well-known member
I disagree. Imported products have 'cachet' around the world, and this is only more so in countries that haven't achieved high standards in manufacturing. At one point the leading import beer in China was Pabst Blue Ribbon - simply because it's American!
That's a pretty silly thing for him to say - the toolboxes were made in Canada, so of course they weren't marked "Made in USA." They were marked "Made in Canada." I think I speak for many people here when I say that Canada and China inspire very, very different emotions in me.
Hell, He said the "majority" dont care in the US.
I know Chad and Shaun can probably answer this but How many other Drive tools are not labeled "Made in the USA"? Besides Dual 80 tech ratchets.
chadster1
Well-known member
Just a quick look and I see USA on sockets, prybars, extensions, SOEX wrenches, pliers, 1/2 to 3/8 adaptors and screwdrivers.
mrshaun
Well-known member
on the crowfeet on the RATCHET adapters torque adapters even the blue point BTWS bit wrenches are made in the usa and SAY IT...
ok boys to kill a lot of your thoughts about the guts in the dual 80 ratchets
read this please I wasnt sure if anyone has even looked at this yet
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...=21365&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all
ok boys to kill a lot of your thoughts about the guts in the dual 80 ratchets
read this please I wasnt sure if anyone has even looked at this yet
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...=21365&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all
Thats what im getting at... Snap on Probably has the Hottest selling ratchets in its class, yet they go out of there way not to Mark it "Made in the USA". It makes Zero sense to me, Ive owned hundereds of Snap on ratchets dating back to there early begining and they all where stamped USA. What has changed? Does everyone buy that "We want to be a Global Company" BS? I dont, I think like any company they want to make as much money as possible and if that means using overseas products in there tools to accomplish that goal.. Well so be it. Dont get me wrong, I enjoyed swinging Dual 80's ratchets they are a remarkable product, but think there is more to this story. Sigh.... Maybe someday we will find out. Till we do, im gonna continue to do the "Wright" thing.
mrshaun
Well-known member
by the way that is the repair kit for the 3/8 dual 80 ratchets...
Im dumb to Snap on's production methods but what about the Steel they use? I remember watching the "genius" tool production video and you could see right on the Steel Round stock that it had a "Made in China" tag. It just doesnt make any sense to me.
Isn't there a thread about how inaccurate Snap On online COO is?
You should ask Tim if he knows of the case where Maerklin (Marklin) from Germany, the famous toy/Model Train maker who relocated a large amount of their die casting to China, only to pull out after having their alloy formulas stolen and inferior alloys substituted in the production of some of their models... They essentially got "Burned" by dealing with the Chinese and between the huge increase in costs, and the theft of their intellectual property they decided to cut their losses and return production to the EU and Germany.
Depends on the price. Like everything else. If i have tools made in china and have to pay only the name it's not ok. if i have tools made in china and have to pay a low price with a good quality, why not. if i have tools made in germany it's ok to pay a price which is ok for germany.
but i ask you, how do you make it with your clothes, shoes etc. f.e. nike most of these stuff is also made in taiwan/china etc.