National Electrical code - Electrical Advice Needed!

[VinnieCap]

Any electricians here familiar with this code?

I live in Collegeville, PA. Just built a 22x36 detached garage.

Here is the plan:

• Install a 100amp subpanel from my house (house as 200amp).
• Use #2, 4 wires. I think that is to separate the ground bar from the neutral bar.
• I already have 1 1/4" schedule 40 run under the driveway so just have to continue that out to garage.
• Just insulate garage, no drywall.
• Wall outlets will be 20amp, 12-2
• Ceiling outlets on switches for LED shop lights will be 15amp, 14-2

Here are my questions:

• Do I need a grounding rod outside for this subpanel?
• Is there a code for how high all the wall outlets need to be?
• Can I install ceiling outlets for shop lighting instead of hardwiring them?
• Can I just run romex through the 2x4 walls if I am not going to drywall?
• I am using those blue plastic boxes, any issues there?

Do most townships just use the National code? I am in Lower Providence, PA

Thanks,
Vinnie

 

[teal95]

I just know what my electrician (who did the main panel) and my inspector told me, so... Blu boxes and Romex are fine. Your plan for 12 ga / 20 amp outlets and 14 ga / 15 amp for the lights is fine. The only detail I got was that every outlet has to be GFCI protected and the GFCI must be readily accessible even if the outlet it's protecting is on the ceiling. He then said that was a technicality and he didn't expect that when he did the final inspection. But if I had known it before I would have just put an outlet in the feed to the light switches. Since I did my whole shop in conduit that would have been a little hard to do.

 

[lakelandcat]

Any electricians here familiar with this code?

I live in Collegeville, PA. Just built a 22x36 detached garage.

Here is the plan:

• Install a 100amp subpanel from my house (house as 200amp).
• Use #2, 4 wires. I think that is to separate the ground bar from the neutral bar.
• I already have 1 1/4" schedule 40 run under the driveway so just have to continue that out to garage.
• Just insulate garage, no drywall.
• Wall outlets will be 20amp, 12-2
• Ceiling outlets on switches for LED shop lights will be 15amp, 14-2

Here are my questions:

• Do I need a grounding rod outside for this subpanel?
• Is there a code for how high all the wall outlets need to be?
• Can I install ceiling outlets for shop lighting instead of hardwiring them?
• Can I just run romex through the 2x4 walls if I am not going to drywall?
• I am using those blue plastic boxes, any issues there?

Do most townships just use the National code? I am in Lower Providence, PA

Thanks,
Vinnie

If you are running 240v, which is what it sounds like, you must be running a good distance from your 200a panel. I had to use 4ga THHN on mine and I was running 125'. My inspector made me pound 2 8' ground rods at least 6' from each other for lightning. I only had to have GFCI outside because it was subject to moisture. Because I was coming off my power meter, he made me bond my neutral to my ground, if you are coming from your house panel its prob. already bonded. you have to bury your sch40 a certain depth, that is determined by your location. As far as how high to install your boxes, just measure the ones in your house and go with the same. I could only run 2 12/2 wires through each hole in my studs, leave yourself 6-12" incase you have to move a box. All else sounds fine

 

[Stuff]

Is there an UFER rod going into your slab? If so just use that for grounding. If not you need two grounding rods outside.
No code for height of receptacles.
GFCIs for all receptacle feeds. Exception for dedicated outlets is gone. Easiest to use GFCI breakers in garage but receptacles are cheaper.
NM-C cable (aka Romex®) is a judgement call if subject to physical damage. Keep them 1 1/4" from edge.

If you use copper THWN then #3 is good for 100amps (two hots). Some allow reduced neutral if calculated. Can use #8 green ground. Aluminum needs #1 for 100amps though lots of inspectors miss this as #2 is good for service (entire dwelling). Can use #6 for grounding.

Note a man door usually requires an outside light.

How did you build a garage without finding out what codes apply? Permit office should tell you the high level. Or did you skip the permit for your garage? PA goes by 2009 IRC which is most of 2008 NEC codes. Each township can modify it.

 

[KRB52]

Not an electrician, but I do remember reading somewhere that the code required all electrical boxes for outlets on a wall to be equal height form the floor. Verify with your AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) to save having to redo it.

 

[Alchymist]

If you are running 240v, which is what it sounds like, you must be running a good distance from your 200a panel. I had to use 4ga THHN on mine and I was running 125'. My inspector made me pound 2 8' ground rods at least 6' from each other for lightning. I only had to have GFCI outside because it was subject to moisture. Because I was coming off my power meter, he made me bond my neutral to my ground, if you are coming from your house panel its prob. already bonded. you have to bury your sch40 a certain depth, that is determined by your location. As far as how high to install your boxes, just measure the ones in your house and go with the same. I could only run 2 12/2 wires through each hole in my studs, leave yourself 6-12" incase you have to move a box. All else sounds fine

If it's a detached garage, which I gather from the op, then it must be a 4 wire feed for 240v, and the neutral and ground will NOT be bonded.

 

[VinnieCap]

If it's a detached garage, which I gather from the op, then it must be a 4 wire feed for 240v, and the neutral and ground will NOT be bonded.

That is correct, it's a detached garage. The house box is bonded, so the subpanel will not and needs 4 wires.

Just didn't know if I needed a grounding rod outside?

 

[VinnieCap]

How did you build a garage without finding out what codes apply? Permit office should tell you the high level. Or did you skip the permit for your garage? PA goes by 2009 IRC which is most of 2008 NEC codes. Each township can modify it.

Garage builder got the permit for the building. It did not include electric.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

That is correct, it's a detached garage. The house box is bonded, so the subpanel will not and needs 4 wires.

Just didn't know if I needed a grounding rod outside?

Yes you'll still need two 8' ground rods outside, 6' apart.

 

[old__man]

[*]Just insulate garage, no drywall.

Vinnie

In this does all the wire in the garage have to be in conduit or BX?

 

[casmurbax]

I am not an electrician but having just wired my detached garage(Saratoga Springs, NY) I was told by my inspector that all the 120v outlets had to be 48 inches from the floor.

Also, sched 40 under the driveway? I was required to use sched 80 if I was going to pull wire under the driveway.

Good luck and post some pictures.

 

[pattenp]

Here is the plan:
Install a 100amp subpanel from my house (house as 200amp).
No problem in itself. Use main breaker box, not main lug.
Use #2, 4 wires. I think that is to separate the ground bar from the neutral bar.
If this is #2 aluminum, 90A is max feeding breaker. When coming off house panel after first disconnect the neutral is isolated from the ground. You will need to add ground bar to box.
I already have 1 1/4" schedule 40 run under the driveway so just have to continue that out to garage.
Conduit under drive needs to be buried at least 24". 1 1/4" conduit is too small for four conductors of some types of #2 such as RHH/RHW/USE. THHN/THWN or XHHW will work.
Just insulate garage, no drywall.
Romex through borded hole 1.25" from nailing face.
Wall outlets will be 20amp, 12-2
Good
Ceiling outlets on switches for LED shop lights will be 15amp, 14-2
Ceiling outlets must be GFCI protected, can't place GFCI outlet on ceiling, must be readily accessible.

Here are my questions:
Do I need a grounding rod outside for this subpanel?
Yes, 2, six feet apart from each other.
Is there a code for how high all the wall outlets need to be?
No. Recommend 50" in shop to bottom of box.
Can I install ceiling outlets for shop lighting instead of hardwiring them?
Yes, see above comment.
Can I just run romex through the 2x4 walls if I am not going to drywall?
Yes, see above comment.
I am using those blue plastic boxes, any issues there?
Use good quality ones.

My comments are based on the NEC. Your local codes may have different requirements.

*

 

[alfredeneuman]

If it's a detached garage, which I gather from the op, then it must be a 4 wire feed for 240v, and the neutral and ground will NOT be bonded.

Here is a graphic from Mike Holt ->http://www.ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-grounding-and-bonding-remote-building

 

[lakelandcat]

If it's a detached garage, which I gather from the op, then it must be a 4 wire feed for 240v, and the neutral and ground will NOT be bonded.

From what I understand if you are running from your main house panel it is already bonded neutral to ground, in my case I am coming from my meter and the ground was not bonded to the neutral. Thats why my inspector made had me bond N-GR (it wasn't done in my panel box in the detatched)

 

[ard]

How far IS it from main panel to sub panel?

 

[MushCreek]

The ground rod(s) will vary by town or county. In our county, you need two at least 8' apart, but in the neighboring county, they require 16' apart. When I ran power out to my barn 125', the inspector said I didn't need a ground rod at all (he's wrong, and I put in two). Always go by what your local building dept. requires, or better.

 

[VinnieCap]

How far IS it from main panel to sub panel?

Quick rough measurement today was just under 80 feet.