VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[Shiftless]

JT & Drives:
That design looks a lot like a few Reeds I have worked on.
The pin securing the main nut is driven in on a slant so when it is replaced, the depth of the pin in the hole affects the free play on the vise handle.

 

[Outlawmws]

JT, get the rust off the side of the jaws, and shoot a pic, as the jaw to jaw face interface is often a good indicator of who made it. (Flat, "T" or "C" jaw faces...)

I would NOT drill and tap for soft faces for the jaws. Most use brass and they are made to bend and wrap around and stay in place well enough.

I use sheet lead or wood faces generally, and make them to fit tight and call it good.

If plastic is needed, (and the jaws are removable) remove the jaws and put the plastic ones in their place.

Welcome to the madhouse!

 

[Outlawmws]

Shift, I'm not seeing the Reed oil hole?

 

[jtolbert]

JT & Drives:
That design looks a lot like a few Reeds I have worked on.
The pin securing the main nut is driven in on a slant so when it is replaced, the depth of the pin in the hole affects the free play on the vise handle.

So the pin gets driven out from the nut side, not the underside? I'm guessing it's tapered, if it's an interference fit with the nut. I figured the dovetail was just made loose to allow for easier use.

 

[jtolbert]

Wait, I'm thinking about it wrong. If it's tapered, the wide side would have to be on the nut side to allow for locking things together, and the pin would get driven out from the underside. Hrm.

 

[Outlawmws]

Exactly. Not sure its tapered, (it could be) but they often bend them forward to make sure the nut is not walking fore and aft, adding to the back lash on the main screw.

 

[Shiftless]

Outlaw:
My Reed 204 has no oil holes...
But the front end of the mystery vise is plainer than Reed so I'm changing my vote. Like Drives said, Prentiss is a likely winner.

jtolbert: Like Outlaw said, A good clean up on the sides of the jaw insert area will give us some better clues.

 

[drivesitfar]

JT: I personally wouldn't mess with the jaws cause they look like they are sitting on your old vise nicely. if you need soft jaws or need a little more grip i'd suggest making copper or aluminum jaw covers.

I'm still not certain about the maker of your vise, but pretty sure it's close to or more than 100 years old. once you get the rust off it a maker's casting mark might appear so let us know if it does.

as far as color a lot of those old vises left the factory with a sort of naked look or a Japanning finish that was more like a black. since it's your vise we sort of have an unwritten rule that it's YOUR COLOR CHOICE. if you are looking for some great vise colors might i suggest looking on the big vise thread and here's the link to some 60,000 posts about vises in case you haven't seen it already.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44782

here's a couple pictures of one of my old Prentiss swivel jaw vises that has it's original finish on it in case you might want to go with a Japanning type look.

 

[Bunk]

Bunk's Paramo No.3 & Morgan Chicago 45

Time to share a couple of my vises. One needs some help, the other, not really.
Both are getting refinished.

First up is my Paramo No.3. Bought it at a local pawn shop 5 years ago for I think $45?
View media item 76039
It was is really pretty good shape, everything moved freely, no cracks, and the screw has great threads.
View media item 76040
View media item 76042
The only trouble I am having with this vise is the backlash spring and washers are missing from the leadscrew.
Would anybody know the approximate specs on the spring? Coil dia / free height / wire dia?

Back when I bought it in 2012, I dipped it in my newly built electrolysis tank and got all the parts in primer. Rustoleum Self Etching. Life happened and it sat until now waiting to be finish painted. I am shooting for a original look color which is a dark royal blue of sorts.
I've recently spiffed up the leadscrew / jaws / bolts and swivel clamp screw with a wire wheel and coated them in BLO until final assembly. Soon I hope. Finish pics to follow.


Next up is my new acquisition from the weekend. A Morgan Chicago 45. I found in on letgo about 20 miles away from me. $65. The guy bought a storage locker and was selling all the contents.
View media item 77342
I found this interesting property tag under a thick layer of spray paint
View media item 77343
This vise, for all intents, really needs nothing. The screw is in really nice shape, as are the jaws. The handle does show evidence of hammer dents, but it is straight and true. The last repaint was not really done well, so I will refinish is as well. Is red the correct color for these vises?
I need to look up some info on the property tag. Sounds like it could have an intriguing history.

 

[Bunk]

Bunk's Paramo No.3 & Morgan Chicago 45

Hold for After pics

15JAN18
The Paramo has FINALLY been completed. Its been 6 years. Damn I **** at follow through apparently. The end result is pretty nice though.

View media item 79649The color is Rustoleum Royal Blue, brush painted, two coats.
I wiped on a BLO/Beeswax/Turp mix on the bare metal parts.
I did the needle bearing mod to the lead screw, pretty cheap and easy.
I'm not 100% happy with my replacement of the missing back lash spring. I'll figure out something better later, hopefully not 6 years later though.


I did get the Morgan fully cleaned up of paint and rust using my electrolysis bath.
View media item 78353With just a coating of WD40 she almost looks too good as-is to cover up with paint. Love that gold patina.
During the cleanup I did determine the original color underneath the red was in fact black.
I've decided to go with a somewhat low key, working finish on this one. Brushed machined bits and Rustoleum Matte Black. I found that new to me color while perusing the paint aisle at HD.

 

[Fretters]

Regarding the spring, the ID wants to be a slightly loose fit on the screw, and the uncompressed length wants to be just past the hole through the screw so that it's compressed once you fit the washer & pin. Wire diameter wise, something akin to a similar size valve spring.

 

[ALLFAST]

You could also follow JZiggys lead and use the retrofit of a bronze bushing, and as I recall, two roller thrust washers, backed by a cotter key ? He says it smoothes things up remarkably.

Shawn

 

[Bunk]

Shawn, do you have a post# reference for that? I tried searching for that and cane up empty.
Thanks-
Bunk

 

[jtolbert]

I found NUMBERS! I don't know what they mean, though. One is on the back side of the static jaw housing, and it's hard to read. The other set, on the end of the dynamic jaw slide, are pretty much impossible to read.

I let the parts sit in vinegar for twenty-four hours, then dried them off and hit them with a brass-bristle brush and a stainless-steel scouring pad. I forgot my punch set again, so I didn't attempt to remove the dowel pin tonight.

The jaws are the cast-in-place variety, and they are cross-hatched.

I looked at a lot of Reed, Prentiss, and Parker vises last night, and none of them had characteristics that matched. Do the new pics help in identification? Thanks!

 

[chrisnazzy]

I found NUMBERS! I don't know what they mean, though. One is on the back side of the static jaw housing, and it's hard to read. The other set, on the end of the dynamic jaw slide, are pretty much impossible to read.

I let the parts sit in vinegar for twenty-four hours, then dried them off and hit them with a brass-bristle brush and a stainless-steel scouring pad. I forgot my punch set again, so I didn't attempt to remove the dowel pin tonight.

The jaws are the cast-in-place variety, and they are cross-hatched.

I looked at a lot of Reed, Prentiss, and Parker vises last night, and none of them had characteristics that matched. Do the new pics help in identification? Thanks!

I'm no expert but my money woyld be on early Rock Island. Maybe a private label produced for another company.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[bhydro]

I'm no expert but my money woyld be on early Rock Island. Maybe a private label produced for another company.

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Possibly a (Charles Parker) Trojan?

 

[jtolbert]

Possibly a (Charles Parker) Trojan?

I looked at a lot of Parkers and didn't find any other with rounded areas around the bolt holes...They all have more pointed ones. Other than that, and the missing text, it's pretty close!

 

[jtolbert]

I'm no expert but my money woyld be on early Rock Island. Maybe a private label produced for another company.

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I think you're on to something with the Rock Island idea.

 

[drivesitfar]

Chris: you might be right about JT's vise being a ROCK ISLAND cause in this thread https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124285

Riley's Rock Island vise has #'s on the end of the dynamic jaw like JT's does.

JT: look at that thread about Rock Island and even though you won't see any vises on it without any Rock Island name cast on their sides you'll notice the cross hatching jaw faces and the #'s on the end of the slide where your 133 is.

 

[Shiftless]

Shawn, do you have a post# reference for that? I tried searching for that and cane up empty.
Thanks-
Bunk

I think you are looking for this posting by JZiggy who knows a thing or 2 about those English vices especially.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6513619&postcount=17

 

[ALLFAST]

Shiftless,

Thanks for finding that for Bunk. And yes, I thought this vise was a Rocky from first glance..

Shawn

 

[ALLFAST]

JZiggy's infamous upgrade. As I recall, it's Mcaster Carr for the roller bearing thrust washers (I believe 2 each ?) and the bronze bushing can be sourced from there, or from any good hardware store or homemade.

Shawn

 

[Bunk]

Shiftless and Shawn, thanks for the info / link / pic. I think I may like this method better than the spring and pin.
That Morgan I just bought has a collar with a setscrew. Its so much easier to R&R the leadscrew.

 

[JZiggy]

Are you guys talkin' about me over here?

For the bearing you need a thrust roller bearing and two correctly sized bearing washers, one for each side of the bearing.

The wave washer inside works quite nice. I'm not sure the collar really needs to be a brass like the one on my vise. Any old spacer should work fine to just give a gentle preload to the spring.

 

[jtolbert]

Is there any way to non-destructively remove the handle from the screw? I'd like to powder coat the center part red, but it would be a pain to tape off the handle while it's installed.

 

[Outlawmws]

Is there any way to non-destructively remove the handle from the screw? I'd like to powder coat the center part red, but it would be a pain to tape off the handle while it's installed.

Non destructively? Nope!

 

[Shiftless]

Is there any way to non-destructively remove the handle from the screw? I'd like to powder coat the center part red, but it would be a pain to tape off the handle while it's installed.

How about powder coating BOTH and then polish off the coating from the handle?

 

[jtolbert]

So I got the nut out today. Good punch and a hammer did the trick. Got everything cleaned up nicely and the vinegar neutralized, then my dad decided he liked it as-is, so we just oiled it up, put things together, and tossed some anti-seize on the screw threads.

There were some numbers and an unusual marking on the nut. I got a pic before we reassembled the vise.

I drove the bent dowel pin in too far. I think we're going to leave it and just drill a hole for it when we mount the vise.

Before I decided to clean the thing up, it was hard to operate and unpleasant to use. The smile on my dad's face when he was able to run the jaws closed with no chunkiness, noise, or trouble at all was definitely worth it.

Now I want to find another one to fix up for myself. Thanks again to everyone that advised me over the past few days. I'm somewhat disappointed that I didn't get to powder coat the vise, but my dad is happy with it, so that's what matters.

 

[Shiftless]

You're right...Happy Dad = success
Quite a few of us have lost our dads.

Another vise is easy to find. Enjoy time with your dad.

 

[jtolbert]

You're right...Happy Dad = success
Quite a few of us have lost our dads.

Another vise is easy to find. Enjoy time with your dad.

Will do, thanks. We come from long-lived stock and they had me young, so I'm hoping I have many more years to enjoy with him.

I'm eyeing up a Paramo No.5 for $50. That might be a fun one.

 

[gpw_42]

Bunk's Paramo No.3 & Morgan Chicago 45

Time to share a couple of my vises. One needs some help, the other, not really.

Next up is my new acquisition from the weekend. A Morgan Chicago 45. I found in on letgo about 20 miles away from me. $65. The guy bought a storage locker and was selling all the contents.
View media item 77342
I found this interesting property tag under a thick layer of spray paint
View media item 77343
This vise, for all intents, really needs nothing. The screw is in really nice shape, as are the jaws. The handle does show evidence of hammer dents, but it is straight and true. The last repaint was not really done well, so I will refinish is as well. Is red the correct color for these vises?
I need to look up some info on the property tag. Sounds like it could have an intriguing history.

Bunk,

I just redid a Morgan Chicago 360 (which doesn't belong to me). I emailed "Morgan" (Milwaukee Tool Company) about the color to paint the vise. Below is their response:

"We bought the Morgan Vise Company in 1970, and the records we received were very limited. Its our understanding that all vises were black and turned blue when the company was mover out to Aurora Illinois in 1965. We have kept the blue color. I am sorry that I cant be more accurate."

Lots of info on the web about the Defense Plant Corporation; it'd be really interesting to know where that Morgan was used. Here's one link which may be of interest:

Best of luck with your restoration!
Steve

 

[Bunk]

Bunk,

I just redid a Morgan Chicago 360 (which doesn't belong to me). I emailed "Morgan" (Milwaukee Tool Company) about the color to paint the vise. Below is their response:

"We bought the Morgan Vise Company in 1970, and the records we received were very limited. Its our understanding that all vises were black and turned blue when the company was mover out to Aurora Illinois in 1965. We have kept the blue color. I am sorry that I cant be more accurate."

Lots of info on the web about the Defense Plant Corporation; it'd be really interesting to know where that Morgan was used. Here's one link which may be of interest:

Best of luck with your restoration!
Steve

Thanks for the info Steve. Black, huh....I think I like the later used lighter shade of blue I've seen around here. We'll see.

I've been reading up on DPC and these property tags. Apparently the "J.I.C." on the lower right indicates the company/plant that the property is from.
I found a website that lists all the defense plants of that era by state. I've been through MI and OH so far and haven't found anything I would say is JIC.
Kind of cool thinking that this vise was part of the Arsenal of Democracy and helped churn out parts for the war machine.

 

[drivesitfar]

JT: Awesome that your Dad appreciates all the time and effort you put into your vise work. it does look more like a Rock Island now that you've cleaned it up, but i can't recall seeing Rock Islands without their name on the side. It's a good bet that your vise is about 100 years old cause most companies made those type of jaws prior to the 1920's.

Bunk: if you want to paint your vise the original factory color that's up to you, but if you have some time to check out other colors on vises that other members have done just look on the big vise thread. some of the members like the bright colors like Snap on toolboxes use and here's a few examples. i couldn't find the orange vise pictures i saved, but they were close to the Williams toolbox i found.

 

[jtolbert]

Guy accepted my offer of $40 for a Paramo No.5. Will probably pick it up over the next day or so.

 

[Shiftless]

Guy accepted my offer of $40 for a Paramo No.5. Will probably pick it up over the next day or so.

See? I told you so. More vises are easy to find!
The Paramos are well made. You got an excellent deal.

 

[drivesitfar]

JT: Paramo vices were one of the English's best made vices in their day and while not quite as stout as a Rock Island or Reed it's a keeper and yes you didn't pay too much for it if it's not broken or welded.

i think now is the time we have to say "PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN" even though i know it's probably not in your hands or pics available yet.

 

[jtolbert]

It's...It's beautiful. It was also only $40, and heavy as hell.

Most of the other Paramo vises I've seen are lighter blue...Is there a year split between the light and dark blue ones? Also, is all of the raised lettering white on the dark blue ones? I suppose I need to look for pics of other dark-blue ones.

I built a little electrolysis tank that works for smaller stuff, but I'm going to soup it up this weekend to work more effectively for larger items. The old version only had one anode and one cathode, which just didn't cut it. If you want to see the electrolysis tub, check out https://photos.app.goo.gl/FmdXTy772q66kLTy2.

I'm excited to get this one cleaned up. I'll probably stick with the darker blue and white color scheme.

Are those jaws a common size?

 

[Jason1972]

Acquired a Charles Parker 974. Was completely seized up and covered in rust. Once I started cleaning it up I noticed a big crack in the drawbar. Are any other models interchangeable with the 974 as far as using the same drawbar?I’m not finding any 974 drawbars online to replace the cracked one. I’ve never owned a Parker Vise so I’m not super familiar with this model. Also, the handle has been replaced. Is the 974 a model that has the locking mechanism in the handle to keep the bar in place when you remove your hand from it? I’d like to get a new drawbar and I’ll have a handle with the ball ends machined. I’d like to restore this thing, but may have to wait on a drawbar to become available to do this vise justice. Any info on this particular model would be appreciated

 

[Jason1972]

jtolbert, nice looking vise and great price too. I’d like to see what it looks like when your done. Not sure bout the colors, I’ve not seen any Paramo with painted lettering besides blue, wasn’t aware of different shades. Thought they all were same blue

 

[jtolbert]

Jason: I see a lot of people with painted text on their Paramos. If they really are all blue, that's easier to do. It's hard to tell on mine if they were painted or not.

That ***** about the 974 cracks. It looks like they are at the end...You could probably run it and be fine, but I am no expert.