EMT adapter shorts to outlet

[howpeculiar]

Ran into an odd problem. I am surface mounting my branch outlets in the pole barn, and I discovered a real problem. I am using EMT screw adapters into the 1 7/8 handy boxes, with standard 20 amp outlets. With the adapters on the center holes on the left and right, I found out the screws on the outlets can touch the EMT adapters. What is the answer here? I do show what I am saying in the below vid in the first minute.

 

[pattenp]

Don't use handy boxes. Use 4" box with mud ring adapter.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Just one of the many joys of a handy box.
You can't use the side (or the back if it's a shallow box) knockouts with a device.

 

[howpeculiar]

What a pain this will be. I have a bunch of them mounted already.... Measured between the two adapter, and it is 1.275 inches, the outlets are 1.295 across!!! I hate when things are designed to fail. I will have to spend more time in front of the wall of things at Menards, and spend more time and money....

 

[75gmck25]

I like to buy 4" square, 2 1/8" deep metal boxes that have top and bottom tabs for two receptacles. I usually then put two dual receptacles; however, if don't want two I can just use a cover plate that is blank on the side without a receptacle.

Bruce

 

[mm08822]

What you have are a bunch of code violations for box fill aside from the obvious grounds.
Its a simple fix but rework none the less. Cut each end of emt back so 4"sq boxes use/or cover the the original mounting holes.

Buy raised 4" sq duplex covers or double duplex and continue. Could possibly re-use same conductors if you are careful.

PM Norcal and ask him if he wants those handi-boxes. (Take down your utube video first otherwise your fingers are going to hurt.)

Read the recent 4S vs. 4" sq box thread and you'll get the point.

 

[Norcal]

What you have are a bunch of code violations for box fill aside from the obvious grounds.
Its a simple fix but rework none the less. Cut each end of emt back so 4"sq boxes use/or cover the the original mounting holes.

Buy raised 4" sq duplex covers or double duplex and continue. Could possibly re-use same conductors if you are careful.

PM Norcal and ask him if he wants those handi-boxes. (Take down your utube video first otherwise your fingers are going to hurt.)

Read the recent 4S vs. 4" sq box thread and you'll get the point.

All the OP needs to do is scroll down on the threads in this forum to read my low opinion of handy / Gem boxes.

Here is the thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377071&showall=1

 

[howpeculiar]

Just another example of simple Lego letting me down... I will have to remove everything and start over with larger boxes. They will not mount flush anymore, which *****.

 

[DenisG]

I'm not in the electrical trade, but here's an example of electrical box fill calculations:
https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2017/01/31/box-fill-calculations/

 

[kd3pc]

you might be able to "space" the emt connectors back away, far enough - to use them....

by adding a second lockwasher to the emt connector and screwing it all the way down (towards the emt), intall the connector in the box and then installing the lockwasher that holds it to the box, and tighten/adjust to pull the edge of the connector as far away from the center of the box as possible and tighten it.

 

[PhysicsDude]

Pro-tip: Use a spinning pipe cutter and you won't have to take the wires out of the conduits when you cut them, or keep your conduit and space your outlets farther.

Pulling all the wire out and cutting the conduit with a sawzall will waste a lot of time.

On a commercial electrical project, you'll rarely ever see handy boxes unless you're REALLY constrained on space or something. Using a 4" square box also gives you the flexibility of upgrading to a quad outlet in the future.

 

[mm08822]

you might be able to "space" the emt connectors back away, far enough - to use them....

by adding a second lockwasher to the emt connector and screwing it all the way down (towards the emt), intall the connector in the box and then installing the lockwasher that holds it to the box, and tighten/adjust to pull the edge of the connector as far away from the center of the box as possible and tighten it.

No way. that is hack work and the box fill is still over.

 

[mm08822]

Pro-tip: Use a spinning pipe cutter and you won't have to take the wires out of the conduits when you cut them, or keep your conduit and space your outlets farther.

Pulling all the wire out and cutting the conduit with a sawzall will waste a lot of time.

On a commercial electrical project, you'll rarely ever see handy boxes unless you're REALLY constrained on space or something. Using a 4" square box also gives you the flexibility of upgrading to a quad outlet in the future.

No pipe cutters allowed. Sure way to get grounds. All cut ends need to be reamed including factory to be safe.

 

[mm08822]

Just another example of simple Lego letting me down... I will have to remove everything and start over with larger boxes. They will not mount flush anymore, which *****.

After seeing your video, the 4" sq boxes should be able to equally straddle the 1/8" thick ribs if you keep the same box cl's. If you find a spot where you can't do that, consider making pre-fabricated spacers to provide a uniform surface behind the box. Paint them white (before use) to blend in. You need to re-use or at least cover your existing screw holes so it doesn't look like ****.

Cutting ~one inch off each end of emt is not a big deal. Just rework. And if no offsets were used in the emt then you can cut all from one end (assuming straight lengths).

 

[alfredeneuman]

No pipe cutters allowed. Sure way to get grounds. All cut ends need to be reamed including factory to be safe.

https://www.energyavenue.com/Greenl...MI4sSYkbvx1wIVBB4rCh1ruwOLEAQYASABEgIYj_D_BwE


It doesn't leave a ridge, because it doesn't cut all the way through.
It's a POS to usebut, it is a pipe cutter

 

[Norcal]

https://www.energyavenue.com/Greenl...MI4sSYkbvx1wIVBB4rCh1ruwOLEAQYASABEgIYj_D_BwE


It doesn't leave a ridge, because it doesn't cut all the way through.
It's a POS to usebut, it is a pipe cutter

Bought one of those, used it & took a immediate dislike to it, now it just sits around gathering dust. I'll take a porta band & EMT reamer any day.

 

[malibu101]

I agree that handy boxes have their places. But their places are VERY limited.

On conduit cutting and deburring--
I cut EMT with a saw and then normally use this pictured if I'm running 1/2"-1" EMT with setscrew connectors.
Or the dykes that are always with me, I stick them in and twist them to deburr the inside.

 

[mm08822]

Yeah, now that i see it, I remember it. I passed on it too. I like a hacksaw and pliers. Still dont see it working too well to pop off 1" pieces. No leverage.

Doesnt it still leave a small ridge needing to be reamed?

 

[PhysicsDude]

Almost every professional electrician I've worked with has one of these guys (or equivalent) in their tool bag:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...-Close-Quarters-Tubing-Cutter-32985/100021967

No one uses them instead of a hacksaw or reciprocating saw, but they come in super handy when you need to cut a conduit that already has wire in it. They take a fair amount of time to cut EMT also.

There are cases where it just saves so much time, like a conduit stub coming from the slab that's 2" too long and another crew already pulled the wire into it. Or to retrofit a 6x6 box where there used to be a 4x4 box, or changing the box/device on an underground PVC run, etc.

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

its like the woman who had surgery....

Woman: this bill for 6 thousand dollars is ridiculous, I want an itemized bill!
Dr’s itemized bill:
Incision - $400
Knowing where to cut - $5400

Sometimes, it’s just experience and know how.....

 

[MikeF2316]

I'm starting to see what all you experienced guys are talking about. One other flaw I noticed with handy boxes, if you use the end by the ground screw, it's hart to use it. But I just figured that electricians learned that the first day on the job, and mounted them so they didn't have to use that end.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Pro-tip: Use a spinning pipe cutter and you won't have to take the wires out of the conduits when you cut them, or keep your conduit and space your outlets farther.

Pulling all the wire out and cutting the conduit with a sawzall will waste a lot of time.

On a commercial electrical project, you'll rarely ever see handy boxes unless you're REALLY constrained on space or something. Using a 4" square box also gives you the flexibility of upgrading to a quad outlet in the future.

Except for the big burr the tubing cutter leaves in the conduit.
Let an electrical inspector see you doing that without deburring the pipe,your life will get complicated fast.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

https://www.energyavenue.com/Greenl...MI4sSYkbvx1wIVBB4rCh1ruwOLEAQYASABEgIYj_D_BwE


It doesn't leave a ridge, because it doesn't cut all the way through.
It's a POS to usebut, it is a pipe cutter

Show me a tubing cutter that wont leave a burr/ridge on the inside of a piece of a piece of conduit.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Almost every professional electrician I've worked with has one of these guys (or equivalent) in their tool bag:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...-Close-Quarters-Tubing-Cutter-32985/100021967

No one uses them instead of a hacksaw or reciprocating saw, but they come in super handy when you need to cut a conduit that already has wire in it. They take a fair amount of time to cut EMT also.

There are cases where it just saves so much time, like a conduit stub coming from the slab that's 2" too long and another crew already pulled the wire into it. Or to retrofit a 6x6 box where there used to be a 4x4 box, or changing the box/device on an underground PVC run, etc.

I've got several,those are made for cutting copper tubing.
Not conduit.

 

[mm08822]

I've got several,those are made for cutting copper tubing.
Not conduit.

And that's exactly what I thought he was referring to.

 

[mm08822]

This job has way too many handi-boxes to consider any one-off tubing cutter cob job cause yer in a pinch. It is quicker to take it all down, cut to fit and re-install with 4" sq's. All the holes are there so re-install is quick.

OP, if this is getting inspected, you might as well bite the bullet now and fix it instead of digging a deeper hole. Your box fill is over. Pulling the grd wires isn't making it any better.

And forget your idea of grinding threads off of the emt connectors so the recepts fit in the boxes.

Pics from the video.......

And that's one hell of a nice garage!

 

[markushofer27]

Not something I would do but u could use a raco 187 over the top of the hand box

 

[howpeculiar]

I have already accepted that I need to replace the handy boxes anywhere I am running conduit. I will just go to 4S boxes. Need to find single outlet front covers as well. I do not see why I would need to replace the ones on the ceiling, they are just wiring junctions. Thanks for everyones opinions and expertise, just remember I am just another DIY that is trying to tackle a project that got out of hand!

 

[mm08822]

I have already accepted that I need to replace the handy boxes anywhere I am running conduit. I will just go to 4S boxes. Need to find single outlet front covers as well. I do not see why I would need to replace the ones on the ceiling, they are just wiring junctions. Thanks for everyones opinions and expertise, just remember I am just another DIY that is trying to tackle a project that got out of hand!

Verify your box fill in those overhead. Can't tell box size or # of conductors or conduct size from video.

If it is getting inspected, the inspector won't care who you are.