Water Heaters, Tank vs Tankless

[SK-Mike]

New home construction. 3b/2bath. 1500 sq ft.

family of 3.

Going with all Electric for heat/cooling, No propane/nat. gas.

Considering a tankless electric WH OR a 50 gal. tank with digital thermostat.

Pros. Cons. Etc.



Want to be able to do laundry/dishes and take a hot shower at same time, within reason.

 

[Norcal]

New home construction. 3b/2bath. 1500 sq ft.

family of 3.

Going with all Electric for heat/cooling, No propane/nat. gas.

Considering a tankless electric WH OR a 50 gal. tank with digital thermostat.

Pros. Cons. Etc.



Want to be able to do laundry/dishes and take a hot shower at same time, within reason.

A electric tankless water heater will require a increase in the size of the electric service, as much as I dislike propane, if going tankless consider using it over electric.

 

[Dagny]

tank

 

[Stuff]

Tank unless you are a masochist.

If trying to "go green" then get a hybrid tank.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Tankless electrics ****.

Tankless propane are awesome. Every three years you disconnect and route inlet/outlet into a bucket. You circulate a vinegar like cleaning solution for a few hours with a little submersible pump. The ones with two heat exchangers can vent with PVC pipe.

The heat pump electrics are extra efficient but sound like an old frig.

Draining tank electrics is harder than flushing tankless. The new fat electrics are supposed to recover faster and use less power. I have no clue how or why.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The tankless electeic heaters use a lot of power so like Norcal said above, you would need to increase the size of the service.

 

[Lelandwelds]

The tankless electeic heaters use a lot of power so like Norcal said above, you would need to increase the size of the service.

Tankless electrics ****. Ok for remote half baths.

Our friends down south use one on each shower head. They work well but a live electric cord in my shower freaks me out big time.

 

[dw1]

Tankless electrics ****. Ok for remote half baths.

Our friends down south use one on each shower head. They work well but a live electric cord in my shower freaks me out big time.

Why would you have a live electric cord in your shower? I put an on demand electric water heater in my barn, # 1, no propane, its my only choice # 2 its for a limited time, it will be turned off and drained as soon as I get a house built. # 3 I didn't want a tank. # 4 I paid $285 for one that will service my 1 bath room ( shower and wash tub/ sink ) in my barn, it works very well, but is on a 70 amp circuit, so as stated above, make sure you have enough power for this if you go electric on demand.

 

[kwschumm]

I was considering a tankless for my shop, then I was told you they have to be flushed out every few months. So it's a small tank heater.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Tankless electrics ****. Ok for remote half baths.

Our friends down south use one on each shower head. They work well but a live electric cord in my shower freaks me out big time.

A live electric cord in the shower?

Please tell me youre not serious.

 

[Moto]

A live electric cord in the shower?

How else is the power going to get to the shower head?

 

[jvitez]

For 3 people and a 1500 sq ft house I'd use a tank. Electric tankless can't keep up with multiple faucets on at the same time unless you have a huge kW rating.

What is the ampacity of your planned service panel?

Best of all worlds is a medium sized tankless heater feeding a tank. You get the ability to run multiple faucets without going cold, and increasing the recovery capacity of the tank.

 

[rsanter]

I have a tank.ess gas heated unit and love it.

Benifits, with one or few people in the house bills are low.
When the house in not getting used bills are low.
When the house is full of people you never run out of hot water

 

[James-W]

I have heard some good things and some bad things about tankless water heaters. A couple years ago when we needed a new water heater we considered a tankless unit, but after doing some research on them we decided against it. We decided on a natural gas power vent unit and we really like it. If you are really set on getting a tankless unit, then I agree with getting a propane unit.

 

[Bretny]

They do make heat pump tanked water heaters that are suposto be quite efficent. Your in KY so its quite a bit warmer than here in NY.
I have had GE heat pump water heater for about 5 years now. They have stainless tanks or use to at least.
They use heat from around the water heater to heat the water. You do need an area to keep it. A closet or even closed utility room will not do.

Also my house is 1500sqft, 2ba. Two people can take showers, run the dishwasher and do laundry. I keep it set to 123* in the winter and about 110* summer.

 

[larry_g]

A live electric cord in the shower?

Please tell me youre not serious.

Do an image search on Showerhead heater. Common the the Caribbean and I suspect Mexico.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sho...ofPXAhUBTWMKHRuIAOIQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1097&bih=514

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Firebrick43]

I have a GE heat pump water heater I installed in 2010(I think,crazy how that is fuzzy). It's in my utility/laundry room. They are great for the most part. We have 2 adults and 3 small kids. We run it on hp only mode and it does great.

They help with air conditioning in the summer but "steal" heat in the winter but you can set it to run on the elements only. We leave it on hp mode as we heat with a wood stove 70% of the time.

It does make the utility room cool but that's fine with it. It took a while to get used to the fan noise but we don't notice it anymore(really quiet rural area)

Another plus, we have hard water and even with a softener we had minerals precipitating out and had to flush twice a year. If you run in hp only mode the hp tubing runs on the outside of the tank and therefore the tank walls heat the water. Since this is spread out there is no point about 140 degrees to precipitate out the minerals. With elements, even if you have the tank temp set lower, the temp immediately around the element gets quite hot if not close to boiling.

 

[Lelandwelds]

A live electric cord in the shower?

Please tell me youre not serious.

Do an image search on Showerhead heater. Common the the Caribbean and I suspect Mexico.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sho...ofPXAhUBTWMKHRuIAOIQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1097&bih=514

lg
no neat sig line

The one I used was in Mexico. It was mfg in Brazil. The outlet wasnt even elevated. It had no switch. It was on when plugged in. Yes, water ran down the cord.

Yes, it freaked me out big time. Yes, the locals teased me without end. Memories like that have staying power!

 

[lakeroadster]

The one I used was in Mexico. It was mfg in Brazil. The outlet wasnt even elevated. It had no switch. It was on when plugged in. Yes, water ran down the cord.

Yes, it freaked me out big time. Yes, the locals teased me without end. Memories like that have staying power!

I have a buddy who has a girlfriend in Brazil. Some crazy deal down there. Freaked him out too.

Crazy 3rd world country stuff.

 

[nh_yota]

I'd go with a heat pump tank-style water heater.

I'm not sold on tankless units in general because they take a long time to recoup their extra cost in energy savings and their long term reliability is spotty. Electric tankless units are great for small offices or warehouses when you only need a little bit of hot water for hand washing, but they take a lot of juice to meet whole-house demand.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I'd go with a heat pump tank-style water heater.

I'm not sold on tankless units in general because they take a long time to recoup their extra cost in energy savings and their long term reliability is spotty. Electric tankless units are great for small offices or warehouses when you only need a little bit of hot water for hand washing, but they take a lot of juice to meet whole-house demand.

Dont get too hung up on ROI. Always having same exact water temp and never running out no matter how many teenagers come to visit is very special. ROI depends on assumptions made. For example, if mostly idle, tankless payback is shorter . Plus, if you buy something less expensive like a Paloma or Aquastar, the payback difference is inconsequential. For offgrid solar, they shine.

If you get the extra thermostat version and add solar preheat, quicker payback.

If you replace anodes and strip insulation off of old unpowered tank heater to bring groundwater up to ambient, payback is faster.

I alway thought a smaller primary tank for normal needs with a final tankless to prop up temp was the hot ticket for less energy use.

For most households, domestic hot water is the second or third energy hog. (After HVAC or refrigeration depending on geography)

 

[Bretny]

Dont get too hung up on ROI. Always having same exact water temp and never running out no matter how many teenagers come to visit is very special. ROI depends on assumptions made. For example, if mostly idle, tankless payback is shorter . Plus, if you buy something less expensive like a Paloma or Aquastar, the payback difference is inconsequential. For offgrid solar, they shine.

If you get the extra thermostat version and add solar preheat, quicker payback.

If you replace anodes and strip insulation off of old unpowered tank heater to bring groundwater up to ambient, payback is faster.

I alway thought a smaller primary tank for normal needs with a final tankless to prop up temp was the hot ticket for less energy use.

For most households, domestic hot water is the second or third energy hog. (After HVAC or refrigeration depending on geography)

I actualy did something like this for my incoming domestic water.
Circulator pump and coil around my wood stove chimney pipe heats a 55gal barrel of water in my basement. My domestic gets pre heated by a 100ft coil in that hot barrel. I only pre heat the water going to my hot water heater. Sometimes in the winter i can get water from my well thats 33*.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I actualy did something like this for my incoming domestic water.
Circulator pump and coil around my wood stove chimney pipe heats a 55gal barrel of water in my basement. My domestic gets pre heated by a 100ft coil in that hot barrel. I only pre heat the water going to my hot water heater. Sometimes in the winter i can get water from my well thats 33*.

I just talk about it and never actually build it half the time. (Wife has a low "weird ****" tolerance. When it comes time to set aside the space, I often want something else more.) I havent measured but I believe my groundwater to be 60°F.

So, I think I am hearing you have a separate closed loop for the preheater? Did you add proplyene glycol? Is an expansion chamber and explosion valve needed for wood preheat?

 

[Radix2]

I'd go with a heat pump tank-style water heater.

I'm not sold on tankless units in general because they take a long time to recoup their extra cost in energy savings and their long term reliability is spotty. Electric tankless units are great for small offices or warehouses when you only need a little bit of hot water for hand washing, but they take a lot of juice to meet whole-house demand.

Except in places that need air conditioning for almost the whole year, I can't see the logic in a complex and expensive heat pump water heater. Electric resistance heat is 100% efficient, and the hp can make sense if it's "waste cold air" is creating a benefit by replacing some air conditioning...otherwise in a heating situation, the over 100% efficiency is completely negated by that heat having to be replaced by the central heat system.

My recommendation if you want a premium system with electric heat is to get a Marathon electric tank heater ( now under the rheem umbrella). The tank is well insulated and made of plastic so that it will never leak (lifetime warranty) the elements are easy to replace, and there are no anodes to corrode or smell - stone simple and efficient, been around a while too.

Best price I see is to order at menards with the 11% off sales.

 

[sberry]

I wouldn't want massive electric load to come on every time hands were rinsed, may be ok with LP.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Except in places that need air conditioning for almost the whole year, I can't see the logic in a complex and expensive heat pump water heater. Electric resistance heat is 100% efficient, and the hp can make sense if it's "waste cold air" is creating a benefit by replacing some air conditioning...otherwise in a heating situation, the over 100% efficiency is completely negated by that heat having to be replaced by the central heat system.

My recommendation if you want a premium system with electric heat is to get a Marathon electric tank heater ( now under the rheem umbrella). The tank is well insulated and made of plastic so that it will never leak (lifetime warranty) the elements are easy to replace, and there are no anodes to corrode or smell - stone simple and efficient, been around a while too.

Best price I see is to order at menards with the 11% off sales.

Do you argue that frig and freezers are too complicated and expensive? And, the heat displaced by a HPDHW is not like somebody cracked open a window. A big percentage of room heat can be absorbed just from 30° or 60°F groundwater entering your house.

 

[SK-Mike]

The tankless electric water heater I was looking at used 3 40 AMP breakers, my electrician saying that if we go this route he will need to upgrade from a 200 amp service panel to a 400 amp. An extra $500 on his end, not to mention extra $ with the utility company.

At this point not sure its worth it?? Might just go with a traditional 50 gallon tank, with digital temp. adjustments.

 

[SK-Mike]

Except in places that need air conditioning for almost the whole year, I can't see the logic in a complex and expensive heat pump water heater. Electric resistance heat is 100% efficient, and the hp can make sense if it's "waste cold air" is creating a benefit by replacing some air conditioning...otherwise in a heating situation, the over 100% efficiency is completely negated by that heat having to be replaced by the central heat system.

My recommendation if you want a premium system with electric heat is to get a Marathon electric tank heater ( now under the rheem umbrella). The tank is well insulated and made of plastic so that it will never leak (lifetime warranty) the elements are easy to replace, and there are no anodes to corrode or smell - stone simple and efficient, been around a while too.

Best price I see is to order at menards with the 11% off sales.

Home depot has the Rheem Marathon 50 gallon for $1148. Is this a decent price. I don't have any Menards close to me. In fact I'd have to drive about 100 miles just to get to a Home depot.

Locally all we have are Lowes and Sears.

 

[Notgrownup]

I have a gas Rinnai tankless and love it, this, my gas range costs me about $25 in gas per 2-3 months, little more in the winter as I also have a 3 brick wall heater.
If I only had electric and absolutely didnwas gas, I would get the best tank heater but probably not a hybrid.

 

[MFortie]

We put in a tankless (propane Noritz). Not all that impressed - takes 45 seconds to get hot water to my shower 25’ away. Yes, I stand there and count (one one thousand, two one thousand...). And I’m constantly adjusting the temp valve in the shower.

i suppose we’re saving energy and it’ll provide an ‘unlimited’ (‘til we run out of propane ) amount of hot water, but since it’s just the better half and I, not a major factor.

 

[Radix2]

Home depot has the Rheem Marathon 50 gallon for $1148. Is this a decent price. I don't have any Menards close to me. In fact I'd have to drive about 100 miles just to get to a Home depot.

Locally all we have are Lowes and Sears.

Hmmm, with the 11% it is $890 at menards ($999 regular). Menards website says nearest to you is in Jeffersonville,IN at 75 miles away?

https://www.menards.com/main/storeL...3164541&longitude=-85.28523899999999&filters=

 

[Lelandwelds]

takes 45 seconds to get hot water to my shower 25’ away

What does clearing cold water from your lines have to do with how you heat your water? Showers are supposed to have a constant temp reguardless of water temp or heater type.

I showered once in a home with passive infrared that turned on a hot water circulating pump. If you walked into the master or guest bathroom, hot water was pumped through the entire house for two minutes.

A hot water manifold with a separate run for each appliance is supposed to clear cold water faster. Pipe insulation couldnt hurt.

 

[nsula_country]

Personal experience. New construction 2011. Two, 27kw EcoSmart tankless installed in parallel. I did install a 320a service feeding two 200 amp subpanels to prepare for all electric 2300 sq/ft two story house, 3 bed, 3.5 bath, 2 central heat pumps, 2 tankless 27kw water heaters, double ovens and 5 burner cooktop.

Can valve one out for maintenance or if not needed (warmer seasons). Yes each one requires 3, 40a circuits (112.5 amp max draw, but rarely reaches this current level).

Have never flushed them. Don't know if electrics require flushing like gas models?

Constant hot water is priceless. If power goes out you do not have a tank full of preheated water. But it is not heating water when not in use...

In Louisiana, we usually only use one at a time, unless we are trying to quickly fill up the whirlpool with a mega flow faucet. Rarely is ground water cold enough to justify running both. Installed 2 out of unsureness and redundancy.

CT

 

[wyliesdiesels]

We put in a tankless (propane Noritz). Not all that impressed - takes 45 seconds to get hot water to my shower 25’ away. Yes, I stand there and count (one one thousand, two one thousand...). And I’m constantly adjusting the temp valve in the shower.

i suppose we’re saving energy and it’ll provide an ‘unlimited’ (‘til we run out of propane ) amount of hot water, but since it’s just the better half and I, not a major factor.

You misunderstood the function of a tankless water heater.

A tankless water heater CANNOT recirculate hot water through the house so you have instant hot water at every valve.

If you wanted that, then you need a recirculating pump and a hot water piping loop or a temp controlled flow valve at the furthest sink.

 

[nsula_country]

You misunderstood the function of a tankless water heater.

A tankless water heater CANNOT recirculate hot water through the house so you have instant hot water at every valve.

If you wanted that, then you need a recirculating pump and a hot water piping loop or a temp controlled flow valve at the furthest sink.

+1

Tankless just provides "on demand" hot water... Not "instant hot water"...

If one expects instant hot water from a tankless system, it requires a designed recirculation system. That will cycle the tankless to keep the loop hot. Defeating some of the advantages of tankless not using utilities while idle.

CT

 

[wyliesdiesels]

And if youre complaining about 45 sec wait to get hot water, you may want to check your priorities.

My shower is a good 75'-100' takes a couple mins for hot water. And i dont have a tankless.

 

[SK-Mike]

Update: Since this is new construction. Electrician says we should go with a 400 AMP Service ( Two 200 AMP service panels) for the home to be able to go with the tankless WH. This will cost us about $500 extra for us. We decided to go ahead and go this route.

The Tankless unit I will go with is an Eemax brand, model HA027240. with a max flow rate of 7GPM. and will require three 40 amp breakers.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I hope your electric rates are low!!

 

[SK-Mike]

Can't really believe than anyone has low electric rates anymore.

The good thing about the tankless is when we are not using hot water, it doesn't use any power. However when hot water is turned on, it uses a lot of power. Time will tell, Hopefully the periods of non use will outweigh the periods of use.

Right now in my old house, we currently use Two 40 gallon tank electric water heaters, we are building the new house next door, and will tear down the old house when finished. Hopefully with the 2x6 walls and good insulation, the new house electric rates should actually be lower, as this old home doesn't have good insulation, many cracks, single pane aluminum windows, etc.

It has some structural problems so we decided just to start fresh with a new home. At only 1514 sq. ft. it should be decent on energy use.

 

[AP514]

I was considering a tankless for my shop, then I was told you they have to be flushed out every few months. So it's a small tank heater.

Hell, that is not true..I have had my Boche...tankless for about 14 years never Flushed it. (I do have a inline filter for the house and use water softener)
I actually have 2 in my house..1 has an impeller to lite the unit..worked great when power was out after hurricane.

anyway back to OP..electric are not the way to go..If you were going gas I would say go for it...But Electric I would say GO TANK..