Smart thermostat savings?

[MUD DAWG]

I'm thinking about getting an Ecobee for the house. I already have Honeywell programmable 5+1+1 thermostat, that's set very close to our schedules, and the house is warm when we're home, and cooler when we sleep or are away.

I'm wondering how much more a smart thermostat can really save us? Ecobee is claiming a 23% savings, but that's only compared to someone who sets the house at a constant 72 degrees. With our current programmable thermostat, I really can't see the savings being that much more.

I'm thinking there might be another 2-5% savings, at most, due to the odd time where we come home later than usual, or we might go away for 2 or 3 days and I forget to lower the stat. Other than that, it'd be convenient to have something controllable over the internet. And it's kinda neat the Ecobee shows the outside temperature and weather for the week.

So what say you fine folks? Are smart stats worth the money? I'm not too keen on giving up a beast of reliable stat, or the whole privacy and data issues, but I'm not afraid of keeping up with the times if it makes sense.

Cheers

 

[justinjoyal]

Most likely not worth it in your case.

 

[jbwilkins]

Remote accessible t-stats are great if you travel a lot...I don’t have to run around the house when I leave to turn them down, and when I’m close to the house(hour or so out) I can reset it to the comfortable level....otherwise it’s just a programmable t-stat as far as I’m concerned.....resetting it because I’m late one day doesn’t happen though, to much hassle...

 

[peter2772000]

Remote accessible t-stats are great if you travel a lot...I don’t have to run around the house when I leave to turn them down, and when I’m close to the house(hour or so out) I can reset it to the comfortable level....otherwise it’s just a programmable t-stat as far as I’m concerned.....resetting it because I’m late one day doesn’t happen though, to much hassle...

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This. But other than that, Justin is right, I doubt it's worth it.

 

[tyme2par4]

Smart thermostats are really only helpful to people who don't know how, or don't bother to program a thermostat.
If you already have a program set, a smart thermostat will likely never recoup the cost.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

The savings are not quantifiable without much more information...but you might be able to approximate it by estimating how many more hours of set back per week the new system would allow compared to your existing system and then multiply that (as a ratio) times your estimate of 23%.

Additional Setback hours/week = 6
Current Setback hours/week = 45

6/45 X 23%=3% Savings over current system.

That's not "correct" but it would be a legitamate estimate.

Phil

 

[MUD DAWG]

Thanks for the replies. If I get one, it'll be more for convenience and cool factor vs actual savings it seems.

The other question I have, is on compatibility. I just had a high efficiency 2 stage furnace with ECM motor installed. Will the ecobee adapt to It? On the Honeywell I had to program it for the type of furnace and A/C I have.

 

[Falcon67]

Just installed an Ecobee 3 lite - so far so good. The Honeywell wifi crapped out and the touch screen has always been ****. We WILL save some, specifically because the Honeywell was hard coded for a 2 degree differental to trigger emergency heat, so any set back more than 2 degrees would cause the heat strips in the air handler to come on. With the Ecobee I have it set to 5 degrees, basically so they never come on in regular use. Now we can use more flexible schedules.

their site is pretty good about helping you sort out compatibility. I'm not an AC guy, but we have a single stage heat pump so that's not a big deal. The system was new in 2015. The instructions are good, better IMHO than the Honeywell. Cutting the wiring over was no sweat. Yes, you'll need to tell it what it s running. The only info I had to guess at was low temp to the heat pump, and had to go with literature that said "works efficiently down to 0F", so I set that at 5F. If it gets that cold here, it's damn cold.

The app is OK, good for basic controls and such. You have a better interface on the thermostat for setting up the schedules, and on the web. Takes a bit to figure out the interface but it's good once you kinda get a feel for how it works. Have it tied to our Echo but have not tried any commands other than switch from Heat to Cool and such.

The ecobee has a HELL of a lot better data collection than that Honeywell POS.

 

[Falcon67]

One other thing I like - the Ecobee anticipates based on your schedule. So when we want it 68 at 6 AM, it figures out how to start early to come up from 65 so at 6 AM , it's 67~68. The Honeywell would go full on at 6 AM, turn on the heat strips (if using the current 65/68 settings) pour heat out the vents, wake up the wife that was now pissed off. The slow ramp up, no hot blast from the vents and no heat strip smell - yes, she can smell them and I can't even with my nose stuck in a vent - no complaints from the other side of the bed. Win.

 

[mrramsey]

I'm thinking about getting an Ecobee for the house. I already have Honeywell programmable 5+1+1 thermostat, that's set very close to our schedules, and the house is warm when we're home, and cooler when we sleep or are away.

I'm wondering how much more a smart thermostat can really save us? Ecobee is claiming a 23% savings, but that's only compared to someone who sets the house at a constant 72 degrees. With our current programmable thermostat, I really can't see the savings being that much more.

I'm thinking there might be another 2-5% savings, at most, due to the odd time where we come home later than usual, or we might go away for 2 or 3 days and I forget to lower the stat. Other than that, it'd be convenient to have something controllable over the internet. And it's kinda neat the Ecobee shows the outside temperature and weather for the week.

So what say you fine folks? Are smart stats worth the money? I'm not too keen on giving up a beast of reliable stat, or the whole privacy and data issues, but I'm not afraid of keeping up with the times if it makes sense.

Cheers

I just installed an Ecobee4 last week. I have been fighting a comfort issue and I have solved it to a degree with the ecobee.

42 year old 3000 SF two story with finished basement. Master bedroom is above the garage and is much cooler in the winter than the first floor. I have a 96+ modulating furnace so it already is very efficient how ever when the call for heat is low the variable speed blower is on low resulting in not enough oomph to get it to the second floor.

Enter the ecobee 4 and a remote temp sensor that is in the master. I know average the temperature of the master and the first floor and set custom blower settings. So during the home hours the blower runs constantly keeping the air moving to equalize the temps better. The average temp causes a bit longer run time for heat. So is it saving me money over the old programmable t-stat? Probably not but it does increase the comfort of our house way better than the old one.

My wife hasn't complained about being cold since. Worth it? Yeah

 

[dowmace]

Smart thermostats are really only helpful to people who don't know how, or don't bother to program a thermostat.
If you already have a program set, a smart thermostat will likely never recoup the cost.

I'll never cease to be amazed at how wide of a brush some of us at GJ cast.

My schedule and location in the country changes by the day and so does my spouse's. The geofencing on our lyric has drastically reduced our electric and gas bills because of the random times we are or are not there. It would be impossible for me to set up a schedule for when we are at work since work hours change wildly.

Not everyone works a 9 to 5 and has a set schedule.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[peter2772000]

Great point!!!

 

[Git]

I'll never cease to be amazed at how wide of a brush some of us at GJ cast.

My schedule and location in the country changes by the day and so does my spouse's. The geofencing on our lyric has drastically reduced our electric and gas bills because of the random times we are or are not there. It would be impossible for me to set up a schedule for when we are at work since work hours change wildly.

Not everyone works a 9 to 5 and has a set schedule.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I think he is talking about a 'smart' thermostat that learns your schedule and sets the temperature accordingly

So with your 'geofencing' what happens - it turns on the heat or a/c when you pull into the driveway I guess if I really cared I could just use any of the cheaper wifi thermostats and use an app to turn on the AC or just do it manually when I got home

We turn on the heat or ac when we get hot or cold

 

[dowmace]

I think he is talking about a 'smart' thermostat that learns your schedule and sets the temperature accordingly

So with your 'geofencing' what happens - it turns on the heat or a/c when you pull into the driveway I guess if I really cared I could just use any of the cheaper wifi thermostats and use an app to turn on the AC or just do it manually when I got home

We turn on the heat or ac when we get hot or cold

You can set the radius from really small 200ish feet up to a few miles.

The fact you put geofencing in quotes displays you know nothing about the current smart thermostats. If you don't have working knowledge of the current products why would you even open your mouth to show off your ignorance?


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Git]

You can set the radius from really small 200ish feet up to a few miles.



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

ok - it turns on the heat 5 whole 5 minutes before you get home automatically? Cheaper $80 Honeywell with Wifi app will turn it on from anywhere

 

[dowmace]

ok - it turns on the heat 5 whole 5 minutes before you get home automatically? Cheaper $80 Honeywell with Wifi app will turn it on from anywhere

Your really looking for an argument

I have more important **** to do than remember to adjust my thermostat when I'm headed home from the airport. This device does it for me. Sorry your afraid of technology making your life easier. Arguing against spending another 20 bucks on a thermostat makes no sense.

Your probably the same kind of guy that says yes cordless tools are convenient but I could do the same thing with a 100ft extension cord.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Git]

Your really looking for an argument

I have more important **** to do than remember to adjust my thermostat when I'm headed home from the airport. This device does it for me. Sorry your afraid of technology making your life easier. Arguing against spending another 20 bucks on a thermostat makes no sense.

Your probably the same kind of guy that says yes cordless tools are convenient but I could do the same thing with a 100ft extension cord.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

LMAO

I am sorry you are so proud of your Lyric thermostat with it's geofencing... is that the one that sells for $200 on Amazon and has a 3-star rating (41% of the ratings are 1-star)?

But a simple, inexpensive wifi thermostat like the ones Honeywell sells for $80 can accomplish the same thing. But I am guessing you never heard of IFTTT?

IFTTT = If This, Then That

It's a free service that can automate a lot of things - like turning on your Honeywell thermostat automatically when you return home, or have it automatically turn on the heat if the outside temp gets below a certain point

https://ifttt.com/honeywell_total_connect_comfort

By the way, speaking of technology - if your interested in geofencing you should look at Life360
https://www.life360.com/

 

[peter2772000]

This won't end well.....

 

[ratdoggy]

The nice thing about WiFi Tstats is that I can see what the kids set things to when I'm not home...
I can turn off the A/C and make them sweat if need be. When they set it to 65

 

[MUD DAWG]

This won't end well.....

Yeah, seriously, we're just talking about a damn thermostat here

The nice thing about WiFi Tstats is that I can see what the kids set things to when I'm not home...
I can turn off the A/C and make them sweat if need be. When they set it to 65

Yup that'll be fun playing ghost with them.

Here's another situation that I think a WiFi thermostat could come in handy. We got home late last night, to find out the furnace hasn't kicked on for hours, and the house was ****** freezing. I just had a brand new high eff. furnace installed, and one of the pressure switch hoses had popped off. I'm thinking with a WiFi thermostat, if we're away for an extended period of time, it'll let me keep an eye on things, and eventually I might ask a neighbor to pop over and have a look. It would be cool if the thermostat would send me an alert if the house got too cold, but I haven't seen any of the thermostats mention this fact.

 

[reader2580]

A smart thermostat is great for people who are not home at consistent times. You can change the temperature when you leave home and then change it remotely before you head home again. Personally, I would buy one of the $100 models that has no touchscreen instead of the fancy models.

I only have a smart thermostat because my power company gave it to me in exchange for being able to control my air conditioning temperature during peak power usage. I got the thermostat free plus a $10 credit during the summer months. They set the temperature down two degrees to precool the house and then set it up two degrees for three hours during the peak hours. It happened I think four times this year. I get an email several hours in advance and I am free to opt out, but I lose the $10 credit for the month.

I used to have a different power save feature where they attach a box to the air conditioner and cut off power 20 minutes an hour during peak times.

 

[steveo1o9]

I installed the cheaper Honeywell Lyric last year after my programmable thermostat was fried during a power surge. Since I have a heat pump I follow the set it and forget it method (68 when heating) so all the bells and whistles don't really apply to me. But it is sure nice when you leave town and forget to turn the heat/ac off or can turn it back on as you near home. Its also nice to be laying in bed under the covers and be able to turn the heat up without getting up. Those convenience factors were worth it to me alone.

In all honesty the only reason I purchased a wifi t-stat was because I found it cheap, and they look so much better then the big ugly white boxes on your wall.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Yeah, seriously, we're just talking about a damn thermostat here




Yup that'll be fun playing ghost with them.

Here's another situation that I think a WiFi thermostat could come in handy. We got home late last night, to find out the furnace hasn't kicked on for hours, and the house was ****** freezing. I just had a brand new high eff. furnace installed, and one of the pressure switch hoses had popped off. I'm thinking with a WiFi thermostat, if we're away for an extended period of time, it'll let me keep an eye on things, and eventually I might ask a neighbor to pop over and have a look. It would be cool if the thermostat would send me an alert if the house got too cold, but I haven't seen any of the thermostats mention this fact.

I'm really interested in the answer to this too. That would be a great feature. I have a lot of customers who go to Florida for the winter and I bet that would really give them a lot of comfort to get a warning if there was a problem.

BTW...the last time I came home and my house was too cold it was because the idiot who had gone down to check the p/n on the igniter to order a spare left the power off to the furnace when he got done. Guess who the idiot was?

Phil

 

[MUD DAWG]

A smart thermostat is great for people who are not home at consistent times. You can change the temperature when you leave home and then change it remotely before you head home again. Personally, I would buy one of the $100 models that has no touchscreen instead of the fancy models.

I only have a smart thermostat because my power company gave it to me in exchange for being able to control my air conditioning temperature during peak power usage. I got the thermostat free plus a $10 credit during the summer months. They set the temperature down two degrees to precool the house and then set it up two degrees for three hours during the peak hours. It happened I think four times this year. I get an email several hours in advance and I am free to opt out, but I lose the $10 credit for the month.

I used to have a different power save feature where they attach a box to the air conditioner and cut off power 20 minutes an hour during peak times.

I had one from the power company as well a while back. Same principle, they wanted to control the AC on really cold days. Turned out to be a bit of a flop, and they cancelled the program. I got rid of their thermostat. It wasn't very good, but the WiFi control was nice to have when it did work.

 

[Git]

It would be cool if the thermostat would send me an alert if the house got too cold, but I haven't seen any of the thermostats mention this fact.

This $70 Honeywell wifi thermostat will email you if the temp goes below or above temps that you set

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywe...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-203926327-_-203356032-_-N

 

[mrramsey]

the ecobee can send alerts if it hits a temp you set. Mine sent me a low humidity alert this morning.

Low, temp, high temp, Low humidity, high humidity, maintenance reminders etc.

 

[yeldogt]

Daily setbacks done perfectly can save about 10%. You really have to look at what the thermostat manufacturers are talking about when they say savings of 20+ percent. Many lower the overall house temp -- making a case for tighter controls allowing for lower overall temp setting. It's going to cost less to maintain 68 vs 72.

If you use a heat pump -- be very careful about setbacks.

We basically maintain tight temps (home office) .. allowing for the highest temps in the evening and then a slow drop till morning .. with a smaller bump for a very short time in the early AM. It takes a long time for our house to drop 3 degrees.

I love both our carrier and Honeywell internet thermostats -- with vacation properties its easy to monitor the spaces and turn the units up way in advance. We previously had typical systems that mimicked our usual schedule -- I can now keep both places much lower now w/o fear of having an uncomfortable house when we arrive. The savings come when you can drop the temps for days or a week.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

We're going to be gone on vacation January and February.

I'm thinking about getting a Smart/WiFi thermostat that I can "log into" to check the temp at home and/or get emails/text messages to tell me the temperature of the house while we're gone.

Am I headed in the right direction?

 

[Git]

Yep

Check out the Honeywell I linked to at HomeDepot. Internet access via a web page or they have an app for your phone

Note - this is not a "Smart" thermostat that 'learns your routine', it is WiFi only

https://lifehacker.com/what-can-a-smart-thermostat-do-that-mine-can-t-already-472975733

 

[MUD DAWG]

This $70 Honeywell wifi thermostat will email you if the temp goes below or above temps that you set

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywe...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-203926327-_-203356032-_-N

That is a very nice WiFi stat for the price. And for the record, I'm not too concerned for a learning stat either. I'm looking at getting the ecobee lite, which doesn't come with a sensor. I'm getting a good deal on It, and not really impressed with the Nest, so the ecobee wins. Otherwise, I'd definitely opt for a simple WiFi stat like you posted.

the ecobee can send alerts if it hits a temp you set. Mine sent me a low humidity alert this morning.

Low, temp, high temp, Low humidity, high humidity, maintenance reminders etc.

Awesome, thanks for the info.

 

[jayoldschool]

Power went out at my place last night just as it got dark. Went into town with my wife for dinner, was able to tell exactly when the power was back on by simply looking at my Sensi phone app. Had time for dessert.

 

[yeldogt]

Just a warning -- the Honeywell can be a pain with all the alerts.

 

[mrramsey]

That is a very nice WiFi stat for the price. And for the record, I'm not too concerned for a learning stat either. I'm looking at getting the ecobee lite, which doesn't come with a sensor. I'm getting a good deal on It, and not really impressed with the Nest, so the ecobee wins. Otherwise, I'd definitely opt for a simple WiFi stat like you posted.





Awesome, thanks for the info.

The Ecobee's are on sale from the ecobee website. $149 for the ecobee3 lite $199 for the 4 with sensor.

 

[b-boy]

My problem is that I have a 3-zone baseboard heated house. i have 3 thermostats. It would cost me about $800 to set this up. Maybe when these things hit about $50 each I'll jump in.

 

[dfiler2]

Just curious, 3 zones would be $240.

I agree if you have programmed thermostats you probably won't save a lot by going WIFI. For me, the one in the shop, where I'm not there at the same time every day, has saved me a lot and added a level of comfort.

 

[bushmechanic]

It'll cut your bill. I've got Nest units, but they all improve your system.

They account for many things:

1: The Nest sneaks you a little bit. Unless you don't want it to, it will attempt to raise or lower the temperature just a bit at the most efficient times.

2: It accounts for exterior temperature, solar loading, and similar factors; in that way it can use the environment outside the building to best advantage.

3: The thermostat also knows that ducts remain cool or hot for some time after the system is turned off. As a result, it cuts hot or cool air earlier, as the room will still reach the desired temperature.

4: It learns without being fooled. If you want, you can simply walk by and turn the dial every now and again, and it will learn your schedule by itself. More importantly, it won't be thrown off by one family member who has the chills and decides to crank the heat on occasion.

This eliminates almost 100% of the frustration when dealing with programmable thermostats in environments with more than one person. If you have low blood sugar, or have ever had a woman in your house, you know what I mean.

5: You will get a report if you like, once a month. It will provide you with an analysis of your performance. You are encouraged to be a bit more flexible if you allow it.

6: Energy saving temperatures and fan settings are indicated simply by a leaf appearing on the display. If you feel like you can turn the temperature down a bit, do so. If the leaf shows up, you're nearing the most efficient use of your system.

7: It can swap between heat and cool automatically. That alone is worth the price of entry.

8: It can be programmed just like anything else; either via the knob (a perfect interface that anyone can use) or via an app that's actually quite good.

9: It works with any voice control system you may have in your house.

Ecobee is similar.

Yes, one of these will absolutely cut your bill down. Doesn't matter who you are or what you live in. Unless you are staring at your thermostat 24/7 and making fine adjustments, you simply cannot compete with a smart thermostat.

Pick your poison and make the purchase. They've made them all completely idiot-proof to install. Nest even includes the damned screwdriver and plates to cover pretty much any hole the idiots cut in your wall when they built the house and installed the old thermostat.

Right now, I've got two; each handling half of a warehouse and separate HVAC systems. They turned a $450 per month into $250. My lighting cut it down to $180 or so. Similar results were observed in other houses.

So, there's your answer. Yes, they save money. A human simply cannot watch a system that closely within reason.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

My cousin owns 2 homes. I've put ecobees in both. The only real savings over the original 7 day programmable stat is from occupancy monitoring.
The ecobee has occupancy/temperature sensors you put in the rooms you use and you tell the main unit which room to use for a temperature sample. The system only runs long enough to maintain that one room, not the whole house. It's also great for people who bounce back and forth between two houses because it will remain in the unoccupied mode until someone is there. Obviously, you can remotely turn the temp up on way to the house and there's also the benefit of the ecobee security cameras.

I'd have an ecobee setup in a heartbeat if they had a way to use it with a 3 zonevalve baseboard hydronic system.

Tommy

 

[yeldogt]

One more point; The new higher end split systems from Carrier, Trane etc use a proprietary thermostat to control the compressor and VS fans ... if you are thinking of upgrading don't think you can just switch over your nest or ecobee.

My carrier VS system uses the main thermostat to control the other zones. I'm not even sure they can control the two speed compressors unless the main system is only an algorithm control .. like the goodman.

I have one of my Mitsubishi systems on the comparable Honeywell setup -- you don;t get all the features unless you set w/the Mitsubishi remote.

 

[99LeCouch]

I got an ecobee3 for a comfort issue. My split-level house has the thermostat on the main level. The remote sensor went into the master bedroom, which is the furthest away from the remote, and set to only read there at night. Much more comfortable when sleeping.

It also helped me figure out that we could make the lower level just as warm as the main and upper levels by playing around with the fan settings and vents. Partially shutting many of the upper level vents helped the lower level stay warm. Reversing the vents this past summer also helped alleviate the often sweltering overnight temperatures in the master bedroom.

I don't know if we saved any money. The house is more comfortable year-round, so that's totally worth it for me.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons of each product's WiFi support. Want to monitor temps in house while we're away for two months. Thanks!