Loosening torque? Nitrocat 1200k vs 2135TiMAX

[kmorgancraw]

My CP 7740 has worn out after only a year of well oiled use so it is time to buy a new gun. So....The latest buzz term in impact guns seems to be loosening torque. The two guns listed in my title supposedly have 1200 and 1100 ft lbs of "loosening torque" but their "working torque" specs top out around 780-800 ft lbs. Whats the difference and is it just hype?

Looking around the forums here I can find a lot of posts comparing the 2135TiMAX to older Nitrocat/Aircat guns, but none comparing the IR to the newer 1200k. Anyone have any experience with the 1200k? Both companies offer a 2 year warranty, but can I expect a hassle free process if it came to it? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[tonydanzah]

the nitrocat is supposedly made by pissed off former IR engineers, (IR)usa assembly vs (NitroCat)chinese

 

[LGMechanical]

The winner is the MG725 from Snap On It's a bit pricey unless you can buy one off ebay. But it's definately the strongest 1/2" impact wrench on the market.

I would go IR over Nitrocat. I hear they fall apart quickly. At least this is what my Mac dealer told me.

 

[vssjim]

Nitro Cat says USA Assembled on the box and paper work also.

 

[tonydanzah]

really? thought they were chinese

wow the snap on unit is really a monster with 30 more ft lb lol

you can also pick up used ir 2135 cheap, i got a used one on here for $105 shipped

 

[Marlin]

the nitrocat is supposedly made by pissed off former IR engineers, (IR)usa assembly vs (NitroCat)chinese

Not true about the IR Engineers.

 

[tonydanzah]

good to know, thats why i wrote supposedly

 

[LGMechanical]

really? thought they were chinese

wow the snap on unit is really a monster with 30 more ft lb lol

you can also pick up used ir 2135 cheap, i got a used one on here for $105 shipped

Reserve your sarcasm.

 

[tonydanzah]

how dare you

was that you that said that genius had a warehouse with storefront by you?

 

[psychoclaw84]

I have owned the Mac Tools Version of the Nitrocat, Mac Tools 1/2" Composite Impact Wrench Model Number AW480Q, and cannot say how the 1200K performs.

Personally, the Nitrocat did not feel as powerful as a Twin Hammer Impact. This is my observation, not based specific data to back up this claim, however I think this is due to the feel of the Dual Clutch vs. Twin Hammer operation. Also the Mac Dealer said that it is more sensitive to water vapors in the compressed air line than the AW434M. But the AW434M is a bullet proof IR design so it is hard to compare sensitivity. A positive trait for the Nitrocat is the quiet operation.

Based on the feel and sensitivity to water vapors, I sold the nearly new wrench on ebay with the original packing with the warranty paperwork.

The replacement impact wrench is a Snap On MG725 which is a twin hammer design and which I like very much.

The 2135TiMAX, is a outstanding impact wrench with a lot of happy owners, it has more positive reports/use than the Nitrocat owners report.

Loosening Torque vs. operating torque

Not clear on how they differ, but I do think it is based on the hammering effect the wrench has on the bolt which is added to the operating torque output of the wrench.

I have a thread regarding the Best 1/2 impact wrench, a reply I got was using proper fittings, such as the Milton HVLP couplers will maximize the torque and performance of your impact wrench. I REALLY NEED TO HAVE THIS UPGRADE.

Here is the link: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36135

 

[gofastman]

I have owned the Mac Tools Version of the Nitrocat, Mac Tools 1/2" Composite Impact Wrench Model Number AW480Q, and cannot say how the 1200K performs.

Personally, the Nitrocat did not feel as powerful as a Twin Hammer Impact. This is my observation, not based specific data to back up this claim, however I think this is due to the feel of the Dual Clutch vs. Twin Hammer operation. Also the Mac Dealer said that it is more sensitive to water vapors in the compressed air line than the AW434M. But the AW434M is a bullet proof IR design so it is hard to compare sensitivity. A positive trait for the Nitrocat is the quiet operation.

Based on the feel and sensitivity to water vapors, I sold the nearly new wrench on ebay with the original packing with the warranty paperwork.

The replacement impact wrench is a Snap On MG725 which is a twin hammer design and which I like very much.

The 2135TiMAX, is a outstanding impact wrench with a lot of happy owners, it has more positive reports/use than the Nitrocat owners report.

Loosening Torque vs. operating torque

Not clear on how they differ, but I do think it is based on the hammering effect the wrench has on the bolt which is added to the operating torque output of the wrench.

I have a thread regarding the Best 1/2 impact wrench, a reply I got was using proper fittings, such as the Milton HVLP couplers will maximize the torque and performance of your impact wrench. I REALLY NEED TO HAVE THIS UPGRADE.

Here is the link: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36135

operating torque it the only number you should look at, it is a much better representation of the rotational force the gun puts out, loosening torque is ********, it it the number of foot-lbs you can tighten a fastener to and still have the gun break it loose under laboratory conditions.
If I could only have one gun it would be my Nitrocat 1375xl mini 1/2", its super light ans small, however I have yet to come across an automotive/light duty fastener it couldn't [break] loose.
OTOH my 2135QTiMAX is a real socket-cracker, it is the ultimate torque-monster IMO.

One thing to keep in mind, I believe NitroCat rates their NEW impacts at 120 psi, not 90, so the power ratings are a bit off.

 

[mrshaun]

the nitro cat guns work well as long as you oil them... that is the main reason for failure.
The ir guns have to be greased a lot to keep the motor cool while under heavy use. once you pull the trigger all the grease slings to the outside of the case.
the mg725 uses a sealed motor with synthetic oil. keeps it cooler while under heavy use.

 

[toolfreak]

I don't like my IR, the buttons in the back fall out when hammering on a bolt or switching directions.

 

[tonydanzah]

can't you just order a new housing to fix that?

 

[nate379]

MG725 looks like a nice unit. About the same cost as the IR 2135. I think I paid $225 for my IR and the Snappy gun is $233.

The 2135 is 1000ft/lbs, the Snappy gun is 1190ft/lbs. HMmmmmmm

 

[tonydanzah]

thats not operating torque snap on is 810 ft lb IR is 780 ft lb

 

[nate379]

What are the numbers I posted then? I took them off the spec sheets.

 

[bigsteve1969]

My MG725 doesnt have any balls... ive had it for 6 months and it just wont break alot of stuff loose. 1190ft/lb breakaway rating wouldnt bust off a bolt tq'd to 255 thats not right

 

[gofastman]

My MG725 doesnt have any balls... ive had it for 6 months and it just wont break alot of stuff loose. 1190ft/lb breakaway rating wouldnt bust off a bolt tq'd to 255 thats not right

I too tried the MG725, didnt care for it.

 

[Marlin]

There are three different torque ratings for impacts. Max Torque, Wroking/operating Torque and Loosening torque.
Max Torque-This is the maximum torque that the impact will achieve when tightening a fastner, this can be stated in both forward and reverse, it is checked in reverse using LH fasteners. Final torque achieved is checked using a torque wrench or converted from a tension reading that is measured the test fixture. Not all manufactures use the same run time, bolt type, bolt size or thread lubrication so results vary a lot.

Working/Operating torque- Basically the recomended operating torque range for day to day use so the tool is not destroyed prematurely. All manufacturers choose this differently.

Loosening torque- The max torque you can tighten a bolt to and remove it in a certain timeframe. Bolt size and timeframe affect the result and it is up to the manufacturer what they use.

Other things to consider, manufacturers test at 90 psig at the inlet of the tool when it is running freespeed. Most users have a fixed air supply so a tool that uses more air will have a lower pressure at the inlet than a tool that uses less air when used in the real world. So one tool may run at 90 psig on you air line but one with higher CFM may only be running at 85 psig and therefore not hitting the performance that is stated by the manufacturer. There is a lot of variables in testing impacts and there is not a industry standard, so be careful when strictly looking at catalog values. Hope this helps.

 

[Marlin]

the nitro cat guns work well as long as you oil them... that is the main reason for failure.
The ir guns have to be greased a lot to keep the motor cool while under heavy use. once you pull the trigger all the grease slings to the outside of the case.
the mg725 uses a sealed motor with synthetic oil. keeps it cooler while under heavy use.

Air motors expand air during use which creates very cold temps, during design the engineer needs to be mindful of this so the design does not ice up during use. So keeping the motor cool while running is not a concern and is not linked to grease in the mechanism.

 

[LGMechanical]

I can remove truck wheel nuts with my mg725 that are tightened to 500 lbs-ft plus with ease. So I have no idea what you people are talking about.

The direction switch is much better than the rest aswell. It won't back off on you like IR or Nitrocat.

 

[gofastman]

I can remove truck wheel nuts with my mg725 that are tightened to 500 lbs-ft plus with ease. So I have no idea what you people are talking about.

The direction switch is much better than the rest aswell. It won't back off on you like IR or Nitrocat.

interesting, thats the biggest gripe I have about the SO gun, the power selector/direction switch.
I haven't tried the mini nitrocat on truck lugs yet, ill report back when i do.

 

[wellstig1]

Ditto on the mg725 being the ****. Me and my friend at work have both had them since they came out and we work at a international dealer. You can blast off wheels and head bolts all day with it. The other guys in the shop have irs and these just flat out dump on them. I don't even own a 3/4 gun. If your on a budget though i would go for the nitro cat since you can get them for $180 vs. $400 for the snap on.

 

[tonydanzah]

**** stuff

 

[wreckercologist]

I can remove truck wheel nuts with my mg725 that are tightened to 500 lbs-ft plus with ease. So I have no idea what you people are talking about.

The direction switch is much better than the rest aswell. It won't back off on you like IR or Nitrocat.

+1

1: My biggest complaint about the Matco(IR) that I have is the direction selector. It's always getting bumped.

2: My 1/2" Matco has been in the shop twice in as many years. Unacceptable for a $350+ tool. I have CP's and old Snap-ons that still work great and have been thrown, dropped, cussed at, and they still work great. I really babied my Matco/IR's and they have proven to be a little fragile at that.

3: I work with a guy that has a Nitrocat 1/2" gun(unsure of model#). It's a pile. No guts, no power. He always tries to borrow my gun when his won't take apart something.

I've owned Mac, CP, IR, Matco, and Snap-on and all I can say is I'm returning to the fold after Christmas and getting rid of my Matco's(IR's really) and buying Snap-on again. I'll keep buying Snap-on too. I've had enough of break downs, special grease and special grease guns, slinging bolts, nuts and sockets accross the shop and every other headache I've had with the Matco/IR guns.

In my opinion, the only thing the Nitrocat has going for it is price.

I wish the OP luck in this. It sounds like there is no clear conclusion to draw.

 

[WhiffySpark]

i have the snap on and IR. I much prefer my IR when tightening something. The snap on feels weak to me with the way it hits.

Granted i've been using my IR for over a year now, and it's just what i prefer. Plus that snap on sucker is heavy

 

[LGMechanical]

i have the snap on and IR. I much prefer my IR when tightening something. The snap on feels weak to me with the way it hits.

Granted i've been using my IR for over a year now, and it's just what i prefer. Plus that snap on sucker is heavy

It's .85lbs lighter than the SO lol.

 

[WhiffySpark]

It's .85lbs lighter than the SO lol.

It's also smaller and less bulky. I use it all day everyday, i can tell the difference lol

 

[BeansBaxter]

I have a thread regarding the Best 1/2 impact wrench, a reply I got was using proper fittings, such as the Milton HVLP couplers will maximize the torque and performance of your impact wrench. I REALLY NEED TO HAVE THIS UPGRADE.

Here is the link: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36135

While I agree with the principle, I'm not sure that the couplers are really a problem. When looking into this, I found that most 1/4" couplers have a rating of around 35 SCFM and the Milton HVLP are around 70 SCFM. I know those numbers aren't exact but they are ballpark and good enough for this discussion.

A 1/2" impact wrench uses 4-5 SCFM average which means approx 20-25 SCFM peak. Based on that, standard couplers shouldn't limit performance.

Anybody see a flaw in this reasoning?

 

[LGMechanical]

It's also smaller and less bulky. I use it all day everyday, i can tell the difference lol

I'm a truck mechanic and it's a complete pleasure owning a mg725. You always run into those large diameter rusted bolts. I have none of these issues that you listed. I got raw kick *** power and it's not bulky at all. These IR fanboys just can't face it.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

+1 on the mg725 being the best out there that I have used. If it gets too heavy or I don't need the torque it provides, I go to its baby brother (mg325) or one of my IR 3/8 impacts.

 

[Art From De Leon]

I haven't had anything other than Snap on air tools since 1973, and upgrade each time a new series is released. I have never regretted anything about this decision. For automotive use the new MG-325 is a better all around impact than any competitive 1/2" drive impact.

Just for shits and giggles, I have been asking my dealer to find me an IM-5.

 

[Marlin]

It's .85lbs lighter than the SO lol.

SO is 21% heavier.

 

[mrshaun]

Air motors expand air during use which creates very cold temps, during design the engineer needs to be mindful of this so the design does not ice up during use. So keeping the motor cool while running is not a concern and is not linked to grease in the mechanism.

then why do guns get hot during use? I am in texas, not much freezes here.
seriously though, what causes the gun to get hot. never had a gun freeze before by someone using it. the metal guns, IR mainly, get so hot you cannot touch them around the motor, or rotor as some repair places call them. when the veins swell up and air doesnt flow properly, could that cause it?

 

[mrshaun]

The guys that complain about lack of power on an air tool usually have low air pressure.
you can show 150, but when you hit the gun how far does it drop. thats all that matters. Do not look at the specs on the compressor. use a guage by the gun and watch it fall when you use the gun for more than 5 seconds.
My diesel shops love the MG725 and my car shops love the mg325. I have not sold an IR 2135 or 2115timax all year. No need.

 

[Marlin]

then why do guns get hot during use? I am in texas, not much freezes here.
seriously though, what causes the gun to get hot. never had a gun freeze before by someone using it. the metal guns, IR mainly, get so hot you cannot touch them around the motor, or rotor as some repair places call them. when the veins swell up and air doesnt flow properly, could that cause it?

Most likely it is heat transfer from the front end where the mechanism is. Typically this area does not get hot unless the tool is being free speeded for a long time or you are impacting on a bolt for a real long time.

 

[mrshaun]

that explains. it. I only sell them, not figure out how they really work.
When I said they get hot, that is what I meant. under heavy long use.

 

[bigsteve1969]

Ditto on the mg725 being the ****. Me and my friend at work have both had them since they came out and we work at a international dealer. You can blast off wheels and head bolts all day with it. The other guys in the shop have irs and these just flat out dump on them. I don't even own a 3/4 gun. If your on a budget though i would go for the nitro cat since you can get them for $180 vs. $400 for the snap on.

what psi shop air u run? cause my MG725 wont blast off headbolts off of a 444e much less truck lugs. my guns maxed out on the setting i gotta leave it there to break lugs on a z71

 

[LGMechanical]

Most shops run 120 psi or more.