Matco XL Combination Wrenches
- Thread starter Wamsutta
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They're Made in Taiwan to Matco's Specifications.
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dutchgray
Well-known member
Is there even any US tool manufacturing companies left that are currently making long pattern combo wrenches that are also in the contract manufacturing business for other tool companies? Matco not having their own manufacturing plants probably have very few options when it comes to certain US manufactured tools, even if they wanted a US made wrench.
toolman9w
Well-known member
kabo
toolman9w
Well-known member
Without getting into a lengthy COO debate. You pretty much nailed it.
toolman9w
Well-known member
Armstrong never made them. Apex did as well as made Armstrong.
gdocktor3
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure they have been made by Kabo for quite some time now...
Good stuff either way. I have both Kabo made Matco and SK ratchet wrenches. No complaints.
Good stuff either way. I have both Kabo made Matco and SK ratchet wrenches. No complaints.
You're correct; they would have very few options if they wanted their wrenches made in the USA. They would probably have to have one of their competitors make the wrenches for them. The only companies making their wrenches in the USA that I know of are Snap-on, MAC, Proto, Cornwell, SK and Wright.
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There's Martin as well.
davethorik
Well-known member
The few Klein socket sets I've seen appeared to be made by SK. I wonder if they really make their own wrenches.
^ If they were, why are they priced so low?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002RI7DS/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002NYC9A/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002RI7DS/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002NYC9A/?tag=atomicindus08-20
davethorik
Well-known member
Looks like Klein's current sockets and ratchets are not USA made, which would explain why they're cheaper than SK. The Klein sets I've seen were marked USA and must have been older production.
earlthegoat2
Well-known member
If Wright would get with the program and make a proper long pattern wrench then the problem would be solved quite economically for all involved.
Typical great concepts with lackluster execution.
Typical great concepts with lackluster execution.
You could get a nice stahlwille set from germany at about a quarter of the price: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0079274FG/
I'm one of those guys who has no problem paying $400 for a wrench set from a tool truck. In fact, I have bought many full price wrench sets from my SO dealer over the years. ALL the wrench sets that I have paid top dollar for have been made in the USA. My question is, where does MATCO get off charging $400 for a wrench set made in Taiwan? Who would fall for that ********? If I am buying Taiwan tools I better be paying Taiwan prices. $400 for a Taiwan wrench set is absurd. For the same money you could buy Snap-on made in the USA.
I agree and would hope the dealers have some healthy wiggle room to reduce that price. That said Snap-On is not a good example, their comparable set price dwarfs Matco clocking in at an even more absurd $600.
Why does Taiwan really matter? If I'm buying something, all I care about is how well it works. If it works better than the competition, why shouldn't it be worth the same or more?
If I really have to explain it to you, then I'm not sure if you'll ever understand?
Manufacturing in the United States costs a LOT more than in China or Taiwan. The biggest expense in the US is labor. The American Worker costs a lot of money to employ by manufacturers... decent hourly pay, FICA taxes, health insurance, retirement, worker comp insurance, vacation pay, sick days, etc. The cost of labor in Asian countries is a faction of the cost here in the US. And the expenses to the manufacturer don't stop with labor. The cost of property, the cost of building/maintaining/operating a factory, the cost of raw materials, commercial business insurance, taxes, etc. EVERYTHING about manufacturing a product in the USA costs WAY more than in Taiwan and/or China. I hate the prices of Snap On tools, and I agree, they are still too expensive, but I can somewhat understand the price considering what it costs to make high quality stuff here in the US.
After saying all that, why is MATCO charging $400 for a simple Taiwan wrench set?
PLUS, I like buying stuff made in the USA. I think most of the USA produced tools are very high quality and it helps keep the American worker employed. How many Americans work at the factory in Taiwan? Are MATCO tools made in Taiwan as good as Snap On? I don't know. That's a debate for a different thread. I will say that in my lifetime I remember the COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTE JUNK hand tools that once came from foreign Asian countries, including Taiwan. Is the current stuff better? Probably. Just as good as Snap On? I highly doubt it! Especially considering what I've seen from them in the past.
I don't mind paying $400 for a wrench set from a tool truck made in the USA..... but why would I pay the same price for a similar Taiwan set from another tool truck when the manufacturing costs were only about 10% of the USA tool? Not to mention possibly (probably?) being lower quality too?
If you still don't see the difference then I can't help you. It's people like you that MATCO is relying on in order to stay in business. Enjoy your $400 Taiwan wrenches.
four.cycle
Well-known member
rmsg0400 said:
^ Good possibility they were made by Proamerica. Unfortunately there's no way to confirm that unless you know somebody who works at the plant.
Only company that I've so far managed to get a clear answer from was Jensen Tool, who has been outsourcing their sockets from Proamerica for a long time.
Most of Proamerica's production is private label stuff for other companies. (And yes, they make wrenches too.)
I would love to have nothing but USA made products. Problem is, I simply can’t afford it. Neither can manufacturers. That’s why they farm their manufacturing out overseas. I will say that I am a careful consumer and that I try to make purchases which give me the best value for the money I have to spend. A box filled with Snap-On products? Unless they bring their prices out of the stratosphere, that will remain only a dream for me.
xin
Well-known member
People pay $5 for an energy drink that is 12 ounces if it was 1 gallon it would $50.
Another example, people buy cigs & liquor spend money on that like water like popcorn. I am baffled at how these same people complain about USA made tools (the price).
It don't make no sense.
Another example, people buy cigs & liquor spend money on that like water like popcorn. I am baffled at how these same people complain about USA made tools (the price).
It don't make no sense.
^ Good possibility they were made by Proamerica. Unfortunately there's no way to confirm that unless you know somebody who works at the plant.
Only company that I've so far managed to get a clear answer from was Jensen Tool, who has been outsourcing their sockets from Proamerica for a long time.
Most of Proamerica's production is private label stuff for other companies. (And yes, they make wrenches too.)
I got some Husky USA sockets and they look very similar, USA with double line strike
I realize this. I work with ODMs in China and Taiwan regularly.
Where it's manufactured has nothing to do with the quality of the product though. So, simply saying it's from Taiwan, and thus lower quality is not really a good answer. Nearly every one of your high and low end electronics has the majority of its components manufactured in Taiwan or China.
Why does apple charge $1000 for a simple Taiwan/Chinese phone? It's what the market will bear.
I do not spend money on products to keep some dude in Ohio in a job, I spend it for the highest quality product I can find for a decent price. If that's made in the US, awesome, but there's a ton of good stuff coming out of Asia for a fraction of what Snap-on charges.
Because the margin differences you're talking about are 70% margin vs 75% margin. The price you pay has little to nothing to do with the cost.
I've made products that has 80% margins, and others that have had 25% margins. None of that had anything to do with where it was made, and everything to do with how much we could sell it for.
The original complaint you had was why spend $400 for Taiwan wrenches. I say, buy whatever's the best tool. That has nothing to do with the COO.
As everyone around here says, with truck brands, you're not paying for the tool itself. You're paying for the convenience and warranty. The sales model and the warranty likely cost more than the tool itself.
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Making purchasing decisions on value/performance to price ratio is great. Making purchasing decisions on your patriotic views is great too.
Listening to folks who somehow try to intertwine the two explain themselves, and say that something isn't WORTH 400 bucks just because it's from Taiwan....It's a bit like working in the hot dog factory AND loving hot dogs........just doesn't work. If it's worth 400, it's worth 400.
Listening to folks who somehow try to intertwine the two explain themselves, and say that something isn't WORTH 400 bucks just because it's from Taiwan....It's a bit like working in the hot dog factory AND loving hot dogs........just doesn't work. If it's worth 400, it's worth 400.
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derosa
Well-known member
What's the comparable set? their reversible ratchet wrench set is only 500, with the same metric sizes. 100 bucks difference for all reversible ratcheting and US made isn't that bad.
It comes down to perceived value mixed with nationalistic pride. Things made in Taiwan are usually seen as cheaper to make vs. US made, assuming that the two are of equal quality (my limited Matco/snap-on experience says no) then the perception is that the one should be cheaper, as mentioned above it just means the company is possibly seeking a greater margin. Perceived value however does make it less valuable to those who see it as such, even though they're the same quality and therefore the overall value to the end user is the same the perception says otherwise. Though I'm disinclined to pay 400 for either brand for a basic set of combos I'd sooner buy the snap-on as I would feel less taken as I would perceive that snap-on was operating on a smaller margin and therefore trying to give me a better value vs a money grab through higher margins. As we don't know the true margins of either brand this is just speculation, but toss in nationalistic pride, two sets being equal price, and there is the desire to see "our brand" as better though it may not be or may be of truly equal quality. Either way for an American consumer looking to spend that much will lean towards an American product as the better perceived value. Personally though, I think Matco just jacks up prices on foreign made items to grab a greater margin and create the impression through comparable pricing that they're just as good in every way.
As I sit here sipping a glass on my 50.00 750ml bottle of 15 year old El Dorado Rum I'm gonna pretend I have no clue what you're talking about
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SOEXLM710
Don't ask me why squashing the same steel billet flatter makes the wrench worth 40% more. A number of Snap-Ons product pricing make it seem like they pick MSRP from a spinner wheel. This is one of them. I'm sure in terms of material cost and labor those SOXRRMs do actually cost more to manufacture.
Depends on what you're comparing. Ironically Taiwan has an incredibly healthy economy second only to Japan and South Korea and far ahead of places like China, Vietnam, Thailand, India etc.. in terms of worker pay. Last time I checked the average monthly income for Taiwan was twice that of China, the latter of which has been skyrocketing in recent years. Still Taiwan has a healthy lead. They also have a very low unemployment rate.
Honestly how much do you think Snap-On actually spends on a combo wrench? Granted the USA stamp might tug at your patriotic heart strings but at the end of the day, Matco or Snap-On, you just spent an obscene amount of money on a few tenners (per set) worth of processed tool steel.
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