VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix
- Thread starter drivesitfar
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Maine-iac1959
Active member
BATH TIME
Just want to remove some of the sludge before I proceed. Using hot water and mild detergent with a soft brush. It leaves the parts a bit greasy, which is ok for now, it seems to protect from rust. Am I on the right track?
Just want to remove some of the sludge before I proceed. Using hot water and mild detergent with a soft brush. It leaves the parts a bit greasy, which is ok for now, it seems to protect from rust. Am I on the right track?
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gman007
Well-known member
Maine, in the next steps which method are you going to try? Electrolysis? Evapo-Rus? wire brush? etc? In any case removing the caked up grease and sludge is always helpful for the next step.
gman007
Well-known member
Maine, looks good, well done
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Maine: you can even just wire wheel off the rust and crud if you'd like to and maybe get a dremel in the areas the bigger wheels can't get to. I like 007's recommendation of getting the crud and as much grease off as you can if you are going to dip it in E tank, evaporust, simple green, or vinegar just to name a few.
good luck and nice work straightening out those pins.
007: Get(ridofone) posted up a few picture of his method of putting a slotted screw bit in the jaws of one of his vises to keep it in it's slot while he turned it with his wrench. THESE GUYS ARE GOOD is not enough close to a true statement with all the skills and things they do or think up.
ALL: another great day to be above ground so make the best of it!!
good luck and nice work straightening out those pins.
007: Get(ridofone) posted up a few picture of his method of putting a slotted screw bit in the jaws of one of his vises to keep it in it's slot while he turned it with his wrench. THESE GUYS ARE GOOD is not enough close to a true statement with all the skills and things they do or think up.
ALL: another great day to be above ground so make the best of it!!
Maine-iac1959
Active member
I'm not a fan of using chemicals if I don't need to. A wire brush or wheel gives me more control and allows me to select the areas I want to affect, whereas the other methods hit the whole piece regardless of what I want. So, I guess I'll brush the hell out of it and see what I'm left with. Maybe I'll change my mind after a few hours of brushing. I will definitely do a thorough de-greasing before I paint or finish it.
Maine-iac1959
Active member
Maine-iac1959
Active member
gman007
Well-known member
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OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
007: I'm guilty as charged for not always putting on at least a painter's mask and i might own 3 of the better ones with the cartridges. as i get ORGANIZED these will be hanging on my grinders and drill press or on a bench like my full face shield is hanging on my bench grinder that is on a stand. i also have a few ear muffs i need to put where i can see them too cause all too often we just grab the part and turn on the tool cause BAD HABITS DIE HARD.
since you seem to have a good grasp on this would you mind making a few posts on the SAFETY 101 thread and here's the link:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338827
also I think we need you on the GET HEALTHY THREAD cause i bet a lot of the **** some of us have is caused by improper use of chemicals and tools besides the stuff we eat. here's the link for it:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298568
I also started a thread Grinder Safety 101 a few years ago when i heard guys DIE when a stone or disk explodes so you might want to check it out and add your experience on it and sorry i don't have that link handy and i need to go get on my Schwinn recumbent bike now.
cheers and thanks again for all the good tips about safely working in our shops.
since you seem to have a good grasp on this would you mind making a few posts on the SAFETY 101 thread and here's the link:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338827
also I think we need you on the GET HEALTHY THREAD cause i bet a lot of the **** some of us have is caused by improper use of chemicals and tools besides the stuff we eat. here's the link for it:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298568
I also started a thread Grinder Safety 101 a few years ago when i heard guys DIE when a stone or disk explodes so you might want to check it out and add your experience on it and sorry i don't have that link handy and i need to go get on my Schwinn recumbent bike now.
cheers and thanks again for all the good tips about safely working in our shops.
gman007
Well-known member
Drives, Thanks for the information and the links, this should be very handy. I will check these out.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Maine, the E-tank uses NO chemicals, or at least nothing harmful. a little Sodium Carbonate (PH+ spa /pool chemical, or washing soda) to change the PH of tap water so its an electrolyte, and other than that electricity (Battery charger).
Keep heavy metals and SS out of it and the reserved is non toxic, you could put it in your garden.
That said, while it takes rust and most paints off very well, you still need the grease off or it blocks the process (More washing soda needed...)
Shiftless
Well-known member
Outlaw has it right.
The mild sodium carbonate solution is totally safe. Compared to the minute particles of rust and broken off wires flying around in a wire wheeling session, the electrolysis solution wins from a safety perspective. But wire wheeling gets the job done quicker. Wire wheeling safety measures include using good quality particle masks to protect your lungs and eye protection or even a full face shield.
The mild sodium carbonate solution is totally safe. Compared to the minute particles of rust and broken off wires flying around in a wire wheeling session, the electrolysis solution wins from a safety perspective. But wire wheeling gets the job done quicker. Wire wheeling safety measures include using good quality particle masks to protect your lungs and eye protection or even a full face shield.
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gman007
Well-known member
Outlaw has it right.
The mild sodium carbonate solution is totally safe. Compared to the minute particles of rust and broken off wires flying around in a wire wheeling session, the electrolysis solution wins from a safety perspective. But wire wheeling gets the job done quicker. Wire wheeling safety measures include using good quality particle masks to protect your lungs and eye protection or even a full face shield.
The other advantage of electrolysis is what I like to call "fire and forget", you do the quick setup and then let it electricity do the work for you (no effort on your part), you come back sometime later (might be several days depending on amount of rust) and you have yourself a nice and clean vise.
Plus the electrolyte can obviously get into every nuke and cranny (say inner crevices inside the static housing or the threads in the main bolt etc) that you can not get cleaned with wire brush and remove the rust from them.
What is considered a good quality mask for such tasks?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Not 100% true. The E-tank process is basically line of sight to the anodes, so if you have a bar for an anode on one side only that facing side does much better that the back side. similarly, down in "holes" does not do as well. That said its still a great process for most rusty iron.
You can jury rig anodes to get better line of sight, but making sure nothing shorts out is important. One way to make it safer for an inadvertent short is to put a light bulb in series with the process. This makes a load so its NOT a dead short. I generally don't bother.
gman007
Well-known member
I will have to respectfully disagree on this point. Electron (technically ions) in a an electrolyte will travel through any path that is conductive and is not a line of sight issue.
Say you have a hypothetical U shaped bath tub full of water and you throw your toaster that is connected at one of end the U shape, will you stick your hand at other end of U shape that is out of site of the toaster?
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Shiftless
Well-known member
I use the 3M brand disposable ones with 2 elastic bands rated at N95. If you use them regularly you can get a deal on a box of 20.
3M™ Particulate Respirator 8210, N95 is a disposable particulate respirator that is designed to help provide reliable respiratory protection of at least 95 percent filtration efficiency against certain non-oil based particles. This respirator is designed for use for particles such as those from grinding, sanding, sweeping, sawing, bagging, or other dusty operations. This respirator can also help reduce inhalation exposures to certain airborne biological particles (examples: mold, Bacillus anthracis, Mycobacterium tuberculosis), but cannot eliminate the risk of contracting infection, illness, or disease. The respirator incorporates 3M’s proprietary technology with advanced electrostatically charged microfiber filter media designed for ease of breathing. This respirator is compatible with a variety of protective eyewear and hearing protection.
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I used something similar but it had and extra vent on the front for exhaust and still was extremely damp when I finished using it. I want to find a setup that will move more air.
I use one of these when wire wheeling - doesn't get wet or fog up the safety glasses. Easy on/off, solid comfortable fit. Nice that they come in a resealable bag to keep the mask clean when not being used. Grab a couple when they are on sale.
https://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-66554.html
It is the same as this; even comes in the same package:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00063XBRU/ref=s9_dcacsd_dcoop_bw_c_x_5_w
https://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-66554.html
It is the same as this; even comes in the same package:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00063XBRU/ref=s9_dcacsd_dcoop_bw_c_x_5_w
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Two different things gman. One is Electrical conductivity which behaves differently than Electrolysis which is more akin to a plating process. Also line of sight... Look at many plated parts. The "finish side" is great, the other side has something, but its a far cry from finished... you get similar here.
Do you get something? Yes, but best results are line of sight.
I've even had things like pliers where one side got de-rusted and the other did not. The rust at the joint prevented a good connection and only the part on the wire de-rusted...
If it were true, the guys doing motorcycle tanks could immerse the tanks and get results for the rusty interiors. They don't. They insulate the tank opening and get a wire inside and use the tank as both E tank and the part being de-rusted.
gman007
Well-known member
I agree with the fact that the line of sight being shortest path will produce the best results. Even then with only two anodes I had pretty good success getting the entire vise de-rusted including parts that were not directly facing the two anodes.
The gas tank is a different story as the opening is very small and restricted! Due to Faraday effect charges will stay on the outside (except at the small opening) and hence for most part can not help de-rusting inside.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
I use one of these when wire wheeling - doesn't get wet or fog up the safety glasses. Easy on/off, solid comfortable fit. Nice that they come in a resealable bag to keep the mask clean when not being used. Grab a couple when they are on sale.
https://www.harborfreight.com/p95-maintenance-free-dual-cartridge-respirator-66554.html
It is the same as this; even comes in the same package:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00063XBRU/ref=s9_dcacsd_dcoop_bw_c_x_5_w
I just ordered this 3M one for about the same price (scroll down for "Bought with")
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007JZ1MK6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B007JZ1MK6&pd_rd_wg=2nkSs&pd_rd_r=GTTWTA81612M9JRYDRWV&pd_rd_w=NJ3Zk
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gman007
Well-known member
I agree with Outlaw 100%. Personally I would choose the 3M one even if it cost more (which in this case apparently it does not) over something HF sells anytime. Even if the 3M one is also made in China, they most likely have better standards. It is one thing to buy some cheap tool from HF, it is another thing to put your health at the hand of a cheaply made Chinese product from HF.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
I think there was about .90c difference...
BMR24
Well-known member
Would these masks do any good if you have a beard? I wear the disposable ones but want to upgrade, just not if it won't do any good without shaving. I ask because I know that respirators don't do any good if you aren't clean shaven
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Not doing ANY good is a strong statement. While you can't get a complete seal with a beard, You CAN reduce the amount of crud you are breathing. and a respirator IMO wil seal better than the paper masks.
trijeff
Well-known member
Yeah, don't have a beard but did get tons of crud showing thru nose blows with the paper masks. Got a 3M and haven't looked back, use it all the time, every time now.
I would imagine that the half mask 3M respirators we are discussing should do a much better job then a plain paper mask, but while your beard my inhibit it's function, it also has some filtering qualities
This is the reason fire fighters are not allowed to have beards.I think I will be getting the 3M half mask. Mostly because I am hoping to get better air flow and less moisture build up using a nicer mask.
gman007
Well-known member
but while your beard my inhibit it's function, it also has some filtering qualities
Jon, amount of filtering depends on the color of the beard
I have a question for those who have refurbished vises with pipe jaws. Do you re-use the pins that you drove out (Chas Parker 87) to remove the pipe jaws or do you find something else, newer? Same question for the pin that holds the threaded collar into the main body.
Thanks,
Thanks,
Fretters
Well-known member
Not specific to that vice, but if originals parts are in decent, functioning nick, retain them rather than replacing. Unless, of course, you're renewing for purely aesthetic reasons.
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
taco, If memory serves me the pin for the main nut is 9/32" so not a size that is readily available unless special ordering. I have trimmed down 5/16" rod to fit in the past. Unless the pin is perfectly straight it is hard to drive back in through the base.
I would try to reuse the pipe jaw pins if possible. The dome head pin looks more original.
I would try to reuse the pipe jaw pins if possible. The dome head pin looks more original.
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
gman007
Well-known member
Get
What is the composition of your anode? The reason I am asking is that anything but simple iron (for example stainless steel, galvanized/ sheet metal, etc) might contain Chrome, Nickel, Tin , etc which will dissolve in the electrolyte and produce a nasty hazardous chemical brew.
To be honest in back of mind this is my general concern (even though I have used this method) with electrolysis as even if I make sure that the anode does not have contaminants, how I can for sure know what is the alloy composition of my piece? And hence I could end up with same situation as using an alloy anode.
Now having said this the chances that a cast iron vise has other alloy substances in its composition is most likely lower than say an old wrench. As the wrench most likely had some kind of platting and also it’s steel might contain other substances other than iron and carbon.
Anyway I can not exactly tell from your photo but I am concerned that the anode looks like some kind of sheet metal.
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
They are 16ga unplated steel strips
Bunk
Well-known member
It's been a long time coming, but here she is-
Before Pic:
View media item 76039
Now that I have some momentum built up, time to get to my Morgan.
Before Pic:
View media item 76039
Now that I have some momentum built up, time to get to my Morgan.
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Bunk: nicely done!!
007: yep a lot of guys use rebar and scrap steel. in fact if you see ads or piles of old window weights i grabbed a few for anodes and i think a few guys here use them. they have the hold in the top to run a wire through and it might take a couple lifetimes of E TANKING before you need to change them other than cleaning them occasionally.
GET: do you E tank most of your vises or wire wheel the crud and old paint off?
007: yep a lot of guys use rebar and scrap steel. in fact if you see ads or piles of old window weights i grabbed a few for anodes and i think a few guys here use them. they have the hold in the top to run a wire through and it might take a couple lifetimes of E TANKING before you need to change them other than cleaning them occasionally.
GET: do you E tank most of your vises or wire wheel the crud and old paint off?
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
I will E tank because it will usually take most of the paint off with it. These old vises we restore or clean up didn't get the attention we give them now. Most likely just a wipe down down and a coat of paint to cover the rust.
This Parker was in the tank in the previous picture. It had silver paint all over it from obviously being used to hold object being painted. It came out of the tank clean after rinsing with the hose. I dried it off and used PB Blaster lube temporarily so the rust wouldn't come back so soon. I haven't decided to leave it naked or paint it.
This Parker was in the tank in the previous picture. It had silver paint all over it from obviously being used to hold object being painted. It came out of the tank clean after rinsing with the hose. I dried it off and used PB Blaster lube temporarily so the rust wouldn't come back so soon. I haven't decided to leave it naked or paint it.
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gman007
Well-known member
Bunk, Well it might have taken you 6 years but you did a darn bang on job. Very nice! Even an Englishman would be proud of you (right Fretters?)