M_George
Well-known member
If they make them in an American plant, and put food on American tables... they have my business! Been through the offshore migration and have seen the pain it has caused.
Thoughts on Craftsman coming to Lowes
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Finance Guy
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I'm not aware of any public comments SBD has made regarding Craftsman power tools ... I would expect to see Porter Cable tools rebranded as Craftsman. and Dewalt tools rebranded as Craftsman Professional (or something similar).
Stick around here long enough, you'll get used to it
apollo11
Banned
Frankly, this is my only concern.
Why? It's not like there's a lack of cordless competitors.
apollo11
Banned
Because I already have C3 stuff and it works well
JazzBlueRT
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Did you know that most Samsung products are made in China or Poland?
Good thing you have American made tools to fix your Chinese made appliances with.
Super Sport
Well-known member
The C3 stuff is made by a SBD competitor, so unless they are able to use the designs for battery compatibility, it's a dead line. And even if they do keep it, it will be in name only. SBD does not have all of the unique tools that Ryobi sells.
Moparman390
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Dewalt is so strong I don't expect any of their Craftsman maneuvering to touch it's market space in any way, other than maybe hand tools. I've wondered about PC from day one since it is sitting right in the market space, between B&D and Dewalt, they have Craftsman slotted into. Do they keep both PC and Craftsman brands in that space? Or do they shut down or sell PC? Maybe just a reposition, but to what? Time will tell.
When I was growing up I the 70’s and 80’s I dreamed of having chest of Craftsman tools and I acquired quite a collection during that time.
However, I like may others no longer see the value in their current lineup of tools. The current line of Craftsman tools is an embarrassment to what was once a well respected brand.
If I want cheap Chinese tools with a lifetime replacement I will just choose the cheaper option and visit the local harbor freight and save a few bucks.
I come from a long line of blue collar workers. When I can I make the effort and financial commitment to support American workers. So, until they bring the manufacturing back to the US I will not consider buying any more Craftsman tools regardless of where they are sold.
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However, I like may others no longer see the value in their current lineup of tools. The current line of Craftsman tools is an embarrassment to what was once a well respected brand.
If I want cheap Chinese tools with a lifetime replacement I will just choose the cheaper option and visit the local harbor freight and save a few bucks.
I come from a long line of blue collar workers. When I can I make the effort and financial commitment to support American workers. So, until they bring the manufacturing back to the US I will not consider buying any more Craftsman tools regardless of where they are sold.
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apollo11
Banned
As long as they have battery compatibility, I'm good.
I have 6 lithium batteries and numerous tools
jdlong
Well-known member
If Sears is going under, someone has to carry the Craftsman name. Can you imagine replacing broken sockets and flat wrenches with logos that don't match our sets??? Not cool!!!!
RAS61
Well-known member
Don't know why they'd do this, PC and Dewalt have a better reputation and tools, I see no reason for the Craftsman name to continue here.
Every time one of my cordless batteries needs to be replaced they've upgraded or changed them to something new and different, and it's cheaper to buy a new tool than an outdated battery - you may have to upgrade whether you want to or not.
CJ7VFR
Well-known member
I think as long as there are millions of Craftsman cordless tools out there, there will always be a Chinese company that will make batteries for them as long as they can make a profit.
There are a lot of Chinese off brand/no name batteries made for the Craftsman C3 lineup of cordless tools that you can find on Amazon along side the actual "Craftsman" branded batteries. The off brand versions are sold in both NiCad and Lithium Ion versions. And they cost about half as much as the actual Craftsman brand batteries. So it can actually be more cost effective to buy just the batteries.
Right now at least, the Craftsman branded batteries go on sale from time to time, making them a better deal than buying an entire new tool/battery combo unit if all you want is just the battery. Who knows how long that will last, but I have purchased Craftsman brand Lithium Ion batteries at half price when they had a sale.
I like that you can also get just the bare tools, with no battery or charger, and pay a lot less for just the tool you want if you have a bunch of batteries. I just bought a Craftsman C3 1/2 inch impact wrench/gun to use in my garage to rotate tires and what not. I bought the gun without the battery or charger because I already have those. So the actual tool was less than half the cost of the tool with a battery and charger.
I have a bunch of other C3 cordless tools now, from drills and saws to portable lights and even a radio. I have mostly Craftsman branded Lithium Ion batteries for everything, but I do have a few of the off brand/no name Lithium Ion batteries, and they work just as good, and have lasted just as long as any of the actual Craftsman batteries.
Jim
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RAS61
Well-known member
True, but from my experience the cheap chinese batteries only last about 3 months. Since I don't like buying new tools or chinese batteries, the only cordless tool I own is a drill (so convenient, it's really a necessity), everything else has a cord and will probably out live me.
kythri
Well-known member
Agreed.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Porter-Cable label take a back seat to Craftsman, but Dewalt as a brand/label isn't going anywhere.
Moparman390
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I disagree, SBD does have a reason to continue the Craftsman name in power tools, hundreds of millions of reasons actualy.
albaran
Well-known member
A little while back, I thought it would be good to replace my 40 year old floor standing Craftsman drill press with a new one. When I got the drill press home, it vibrated so bad that nothing could stay on the table. I called Sears/Craftsman and they sent me a new belt but it didn't change anything. I brought the item back to the store and continue to use the old one which is far superior to the new one.
CJ7VFR
Well-known member
I have some of the cheap batteries that are about 4 years old now. I buy the Lithium Ion battery versions. One I keep in my garage to use with my C3 cordless hedge trimmer, and now the new 1/2 impact gun I bought. The cheap battery is out in all kinds of temperatures too.
Which ones have you bought that did not last? Were they the NiCad batteries? If that is the case, then I can see them not lasting too long, as I have had the Craftsman NiCad batteries only last a few months before they crapped out.
Jim
Finance Guy
Well-known member
I will predict with 100% certainty that SBD's Craftsman will offer power tools ... and they will not be C3.
The future of the C3 line will depend entirely on how much Sears wants to invest in it.
chasewilliams530
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Is Sears going to be selling all the Craftsman they have for cheap?
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RAS61
Well-known member
I can't remember now, I also bought a chinese lap top battery a while back because the OEM one was ridiculou$ , lasted a couple months then crapped out. I'm sure some chinese batteries are fine, but like everything I've ever bought from there, it's a **** shoot. One of the reasons I avoid anything from the mainland, and why my power tools have a cord - they always work, and plugging them in or getting an extension cord is less of a hassle than a dead battery that needs a charge.
Sounds like, yet another good reason, to pass on the "brand".
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Moparman390
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SBD is one of the world's leading manufacturers of power tools so I assume we are going to be seeing a whole new line of power tools targrted at the "prosumer" space. That's good news.
psychob0b1977
Well-known member
I can't understand why there is so much bashing of craftsman tools on here...
Sure the decision to move production to China has resulted in lower quality of the products, but in my experience they are still on a tier of their own. Yeah their ratchets ****, but they were never great. Yes the wrenches have lobster claw features, but unlike harbor freight, they are uniform in size and thinner than other brands. Their current power tools are not the best, but I have gotten some seriously good tools for just over harbor freight prices.
I can't wait to see what sbd does with the brand. I am hopeful that it will only mean a better product, geared towards the prosumer. A niche that many people fall into. Imagine dewalt usa power tools quality but at a lower price point. Or proto quality hand tools at Sears craftsman prices...
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Sure the decision to move production to China has resulted in lower quality of the products, but in my experience they are still on a tier of their own. Yeah their ratchets ****, but they were never great. Yes the wrenches have lobster claw features, but unlike harbor freight, they are uniform in size and thinner than other brands. Their current power tools are not the best, but I have gotten some seriously good tools for just over harbor freight prices.
I can't wait to see what sbd does with the brand. I am hopeful that it will only mean a better product, geared towards the prosumer. A niche that many people fall into. Imagine dewalt usa power tools quality but at a lower price point. Or proto quality hand tools at Sears craftsman prices...
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Finance Guy
Well-known member
No (or at least not necessarily) ... Sears maintained the right to continue selling its own line of Craftsman tools.
crewchief888
Well-known member
heres my $0.02
i dont think the "demise" of the CM brand has anything to do with off shoring manufacturing.
"back in the day" what were your choices...
CM?, SK? , or if you were a pro, one of the tool trucks would swing by every week or some REAL POS wrench/socket that folded in half when you looked at it.
in todays world there are a LOT more good, usable tool brands out there, and with nearly everything available on line, it's been the downfall of a lot of B/M stores.
if i need tool X, it's available with a couple clicks of my mouse, and usually sitting at my door within a couple days, with free shipping. why would i venture out, hassle with traffic, find a parking place, walk around a store, only to find they dont have what i want/need?
i'm the first to ***** about technology, but it's not going away anytime soon...
i dont think the "demise" of the CM brand has anything to do with off shoring manufacturing.
"back in the day" what were your choices...
CM?, SK? , or if you were a pro, one of the tool trucks would swing by every week or some REAL POS wrench/socket that folded in half when you looked at it.
in todays world there are a LOT more good, usable tool brands out there, and with nearly everything available on line, it's been the downfall of a lot of B/M stores.
if i need tool X, it's available with a couple clicks of my mouse, and usually sitting at my door within a couple days, with free shipping. why would i venture out, hassle with traffic, find a parking place, walk around a store, only to find they dont have what i want/need?
i'm the first to ***** about technology, but it's not going away anytime soon...
I'm still trying to figure out what Lowe's end game is if it's something other than to milk the brand name, Right along with SBD.
At least the Lowe's I have been in, they appear to have a fairly extensive tool department, with everything from inexpensive too much higher quality, representing many manufactures a-z. Are they just going to shove all this to the back and fill the department with black and red products, which are of average Quality an above average prices, to competeand overshadow all their other products, including Kobalt?
Or, are they going to put a sign up on one wall that says "craftsman", with some select products offered?
If so, that's already been done with Ace Hardware, with the results being less than stellar.
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At least the Lowe's I have been in, they appear to have a fairly extensive tool department, with everything from inexpensive too much higher quality, representing many manufactures a-z. Are they just going to shove all this to the back and fill the department with black and red products, which are of average Quality an above average prices, to competeand overshadow all their other products, including Kobalt?
Or, are they going to put a sign up on one wall that says "craftsman", with some select products offered?
If so, that's already been done with Ace Hardware, with the results being less than stellar.
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finn
Well-known member
I agree with this. Sears Craftsman downfall has nothing to do with a quality deterioration due to moving production off shore. It’s just that there are so many “fighting quality” , often imported competitive brands from a multitude of outlets, all targeting the Craftsman demographics today.heres my $0.02
i dont think the "demise" of the CM brand has anything to do with off shoring manufacturing.
"back in the day" what were your choices...
CM?, SK? , or if you were a pro, one of the tool trucks would swing by every week or some REAL POS wrench/socket that folded in half when you looked at it.
in todays world there are a LOT more good, usable tool brands out there, and with nearly everything available on line, it's been the downfall of a lot of B/M stores.
if i need tool X, it's available with a couple clicks of my mouse, and usually sitting at my door within a couple days, with free shipping. why would i venture out, hassle with traffic, find a parking place, walk around a store, only to find they dont have what i want/need?
i'm the first to ***** about technology, but it's not going away anytime soon...
SK was never a competitor of Craftsman, even though they manufactured some of the product, simply because of SK’s price point and limited retail distribution network.
Moparman390
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Lowes doesn't have a strong store brand (There is no indication they are dumping it though), Lowes is a big SBD house, SBD is making a huge bet on Craftsman and Craftsman is literally the number one brand name in tools, by a lot, so I totally see what they are doing here. Now the actual tools themselves, quality, and pricing are still to be determined. My prediction, they will carry a lot of Craftsman.
Finance Guy
Well-known member
Companies don't invest $80 million in brands that they intend to "milk".
Lowes' hand tools are dominated by Irwin and Kobalt (some Lennox, but not a lot). Are they willing to displace these brands with Craftsman? Obviously they are.
Their need to disclose the contract a year before products hit the shelves would suggest that they have bigger plans than that.
crewchief888
Well-known member
"back in the day" i had a few CM tools that i had bought for myself,in the mid 70's after my dad passed away, i inherited his late 50's SK stuff. the SK stuff was about the same as my CM (in my own estimation).
when i started pulling wrenches full time, i noticed both the SK and CM hand tools that i'd grown up with had some "short"-comings, specifically the length of combo wrenches...
i still use my older CM and SK, but they are relegated to garage use.
it seems the "revitalized" SK has an even smaller distribution network that it did years ago. yea, i know they are available all over the net, i'm specifically talking about availability in a brick and mortar location..
personally, i like to put my grubby hands on tools that i'm thinking about buying....
four.cycle
Well-known member
Finance Guy said:
Actually it was more like $900 million.
In all of this speculation and conjecture, the fact that seems to get lost here is that the membership of GarageJournal.com is less than one tenth of one percent of the population of the U.S.
The remaining 99.9% of the population, as mentioned repeatedly here, still views the Craftsman name as the Big Kahuna of tools. Regardless of whether it's made in the U.S. or China, it is still perceived by the majority as a high-quality brand.
In the long term, it's most likely to Lowes advantage to dump "Kobalt" (with virtually zero brand recognition) and replace it with Craftsman.
If SBD gears up for U.S. production (which they've said they intend to do), that will only add to the appeal for the average consumer.
WittHay
Well-known member
Exactly, I assume you are referring to Harbor Freight which doesn't exist outside of the US.
Craftsman has never been, just US made tools, it has been sold in Canada for over 40 years and the tools are different than the US counterparts.
Lowes bought out the Rona, the largest home improvement chain in Canada last year and they are partners with Ace Hardware Canada. There could be Craftsman tools in brick and mortar stores in every town in Canada next year.
Craftsman has the potential to be a worldwide mid level tool brand
Finance Guy
Well-known member
I was referring to the subsequent capital investments ... companies do not grow the capital stock of businesses they are exploiting for cash. To the contrary, SBD has stated that they intend to grow Craftsman's non-Sears revenues from $100 million in 2017 to $1 billion by 2027.
Model A Fan
Well-known member
I think the last thing I bought from Craftsman that wasn't made in the US was a metric socket set (minimal set-ratchet and some sockets up to 12mm or something, 1/4" drive). That was the last thing I bought from them that wasn't US made and that was at least 8-10 years ago? Since then, I have stuck with US made (before they closed the three stores within 45 minutes of me) or stuff from garage sales/thrift stores. Anymore, I tend to just get it at Harbor Freight as there isn't a good tool store that sells US made stuff for a reasonable rate (what Craftsman USED to sell for).
$80 Million? $900 million? Is that a lot of money?
We think that's a lot, but it's really just beer money for the big dogs.
Anybody heard of Eddie Lambert?
He "invested" billions into Sears, just to get that and billions more back out, by literally "milking" it dry, which he does not even make any bones, about doing so.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-eddie-lampert-set-sears-up-to-fail-2017-5
Just my opinion, but since everyone with a pulse, in the business world, knows Sears is a dead duck and that the Craftsman brand, would eventually be "in play" Maybe SBD decided to grab it before one of their competitors did.
But them I'm a bit jaded by Corporate America and their "altruism"
We think that's a lot, but it's really just beer money for the big dogs.
Anybody heard of Eddie Lambert?
He "invested" billions into Sears, just to get that and billions more back out, by literally "milking" it dry, which he does not even make any bones, about doing so.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-eddie-lampert-set-sears-up-to-fail-2017-5
Just my opinion, but since everyone with a pulse, in the business world, knows Sears is a dead duck and that the Craftsman brand, would eventually be "in play" Maybe SBD decided to grab it before one of their competitors did.
But them I'm a bit jaded by Corporate America and their "altruism"
Finance Guy
Well-known member
What does Sears carry that you would want to buy? I asked this question in a previous thread and got no responses.
B.S.A. (ret.)
Well-known member
Good luck with that. When our local Sears stores here closed up shop all of "HUGE DISCOUNTS" were on marked up inventory that, if you were lucky brought you down to what used to be the normal sale prices. I went in specifically to buy the US made prybar sets and decided to leave them where they were. At 70% off, they were still higher than the old sale price. Just a word of advice, if there is something there now that's on sale, buy it while you still have selection. It's not going to be there later, or if it is, the price won't be much (if any) better.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!