RTEC Randolph Tool Equipment Co., Camden, NJ

[four.cycle]

R.T.E.C. - Randolph Tool Equipment Co., Camden, N.J.

This 10-piece 1/4" drive SAE socket set contains:
4 - 6-point sockets: 3/16", 7/32", 1/4", and 9/32"
4 - 12-point sockets: 5/16", 11/32", 3/8" and 7/16"
1 - sliding "T" bar
1 - 1/4" spinner handle

The socket are marked with a single cross-hatch knurled band and stamped "RTEC" on one side, with the size stamped on the other side.
The sliding "T-bar" and the 1/4" driver handle ("spinner") are unmarked.


Unlike the sets found on other pages on GarageJournal.com and TheGarageGazette.com, this set has no label inside (or outside) the box indicating manufacturer's name.

 

[four.cycle]

Randolph Tool Equipment Co., Camden N.J. (RTEC)

To save you the trouble of clicking the "search" button above, I'm taking the liberty of posting other photos of Randolph socket sets that have been posted here on Garagejournal.com and TheGarageGazette.com:







* Note that the 1/4" spinner handles in both bill300d and d42jeep's sets appear to be made with a red plastic handle instead of the tan colored handle in my set above. Mine appears to have been faded by UV light.

more photos next post:

 

[four.cycle]

Randolph Tool Equipment Co., Camden N.J. (RTEC)

 

[d42jeep]

My spinner posted above has returned to New Jersey and is residing in Lugz' RTEC and other brands collection of NJ oddities. Here is a small pair of RTEC ignition pliers.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My spinner posted above has returned to New Jersey and is residing in Lugz' RTEC and other brands collection of NJ oddities.

Confirmed!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for starting a dedicated GJ thread on all things R.T.E.C., four.cycle! (At least, I think/hope that was your intent, judging by the title...)

HISTORICAL CATCH-UP

I always suspected that R.T.E.C. was more of a technical support contractor (we call the role 'System Engineer and Technical Acquisition (SETA) Support' today) and integrator than an OEM, and most likely for the Signal Corps, based on a few stitched-together observations: their location (just across the river from Signal Corps HQ in Philly), the fact that the Signal Corps liked to use SETA Support type contractors (see Fleck Brothers), the mish-mash of tools with OEM brands typically found in R.T.E.C. boxes, with or without tools marked R.T.E.C., and the fact that some of these tools were Craftsman (a major Signal Corps supplier, with Sears & Roebuck also located in Philly).

Thanks to research subsequently conducted by twertsy and an off-site UK WWII collector (Roger Milam), all of those intuitive suppositions have turned out to be correct (for once in my life!)

KNOWN FACTS:

- R.T.E.C. was formed at least as early as 1943
- R.T.E.C. had contracts with the Signal Corps at least as early as April 1944, and was buying, receiving, finishing (hardening, stamping, integrating), warehousing, and shipping complete tool-sets made up of piece-parts from OEMs.
- R.T.E.C. had a contract to sell surplus Signal Corps equipment at least as early as November 1945
- R.T.E.C. conducted a fire sale of its own equipment - three small dip tanks (two hot, one cold), a Rockwell hardness tester, workbenches, skids, lifts, steel straps, etc, (note: no forges, presses, or milling machines), in January 1946

Link for details and further reading on G503.com here.

 

[Username already in use]

I've been able to add a red handle spinner to my set as well (with the Bonney ratchet).

Point of clarification, one of the sets you've posted images of, is actually a New Britain set in the green unmarked box. The set in post #2 with the black spinner and New Britain flex head.

Here's a close up of the RTEC sockets that were in the set when I acquired it. The style is different than other manufactures of the day. I wonder if Randolph Tool was making at least the sockets 'in house'.

 

[four.cycle]

I think/hope that was your intent, judging by the title.

Exactly.

Your G503 link provides the most information about the company I've seen. I have to wonder why it didn't come up in any of the Google searches I did? :

So.... the red-handled spinner that was d42jeep's is now in your possession, correct?

It looks like mine has a stuck detent ball - it's not holding the sockets. I've got in soaking in MMO right now and hopefully can bring it back to life.
If somebody stumbles upon one that works and is willing to part with it, let me know.

Not sure if I ever mentioned this, but what first got me curious about "RTEC" was a small chromed and polished SAE ignition wrench that I received in a "grab bag" of stuff over two years ago from an Ebay seller. Every other example of RTEC ignition wrench that I've seen anywhere has a plain steel finish.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's a close up of the RTEC sockets that were in the set when I acquired it. The style is different than other manufactures of the day. I wonder if Randolph Tool was making at least the sockets 'in house'.

While we've never found an exact match for them, a single band of cross-hatch on sockets with that shape is not so unusual. I've always thought they looked New Britain-y. Regardless of that, though, my main bone of contention on the OEM is lack of record (there's no evidence of them making tools before or after the war, and tool making is not something that is easily started from scratch - it would've had a footprint), and lack of capacity (the fire sale, which seems exhaustive, doesn't include any forges, milling machines, presses, etc.) But that's just my opinion.

So.... the red-handled spinner that was d42jeep's is now in your possession, correct?

Correct.

Not sure if I ever mentioned this, but what first got me curious about "RTEC" was a small chromed and polished SAE ignition wrench that I received in a "grab bag" of stuff over two years ago from an Ebay seller. Every other example of RTEC ignition wrench that I've seen anywhere has a plain steel finish.

Perhaps immediate postwar. Do you have a photo?

EDIT:

You do remember that our first ever contact was R.T.E.C. related, right? It's a classic story!

You contacted me via PM about a document that an eBay seller was using in his auction which had WWII specifications in it. It was a spreadsheet. You thought I would be interested in the spreadsheet. Unbeknownst to you, it was my spreadsheet! The seller appropriated it to back up the claims in his sale about the Walden midget sockets in the R.T.E.C. set he was selling. Also unbeknownst to you, I had been looking for R.T.E.C. tools ever since finding a couple ignition wrenches at a flea market. When the R.T.E.C. set arrived, the seller included a hard copy of my own spreadsheet in the package! The longest long-distance "Print' job in history!

 

[four.cycle]

The style is different than other manufactures of the day. I wonder if Randolph Tool was making at least the sockets 'in house'.

Comparison shot:
RTEC Randolph Tool Equipment - top row
New Britain Machine - bottom row

While the knurling patterns on both appear to be somewhat similar, the broaching is completely different.

I believe the NB set is somewhat "contemporary" to the RTEC set. The closest match I can find to it looks like a No. 1617 in the 1953 NB catalog.

 

[four.cycle]

Perhaps immediate postwar. Do you have a photo?

I do not. I know it's here somewhere, but like I said, it came in a "grab bag" of stuff that I bought over two years ago. No idea where it is.
Very shiny. Looks almost like Jensen Tool ignition wrenches.

Yes, I remember the deal on the chart - another one of those "Let's see how far BK can get both size 13's shoved in his mouth" deals!
Coincidentally, the Ebay seller I just got that RTEC set from included a note scrawled on a piece of scrap paper that reads:
"Randolf [sic] Tool Equipment Company WWII US Army Corps of Engineers Signal Corps Camden N.J."
Looks like more than one Ebay seller has availed himself to the information here and on the G503 site!

 

[Username already in use]

Here's a socket comparison shot that I took some time ago with a handful of other period sockets. There doesn't appear to be any exact match to the knurling. SK may be the closest in appearance, at least to my eye

 

[d42jeep]

I think you're right, Jason. The knurling is close to the knurling on these early S-K Chrome 1/4" sockets. No grooves machined in obviously. S-K did a lot of contract sales in their early days.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ The knurling is closer on those older S-K "knurled band" sockets, but the shape of the socket itself is different.

 

[d42jeep]

Would you feel the same way about Sears supplying Craftsman to the Signal Corps and others? Your description could easily apply to them as well. They weren't manufacturing any of their own tools.
-Don

 

[Plombob]

Thanks for posting this info! I picked up a set of 1/4" sockets and they had me puzzled. Quality was better than the typical no-name brand.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...and made money at a time when defense spending was out of control... [ ] ...In other words, they were profiteers rather than value-producing tool manufacturers... [ ]...They would not have been the only ones.

Most of your post is no surmisal at all, RJ, since it keeps to the facts I summarized in post #6. I disagree with the statements excerpted above, however.

It's pretty clear that R.T.E.C. took advantage of the wartime economy to get into the business of supplying the government (more specifically, the US Army Signal Corps) electrical tool-sets and services (acquisition, limited manufacturing/assembly, testing, and fielding). And they were certainly not the only ones who did that. The Fleck Brothers in Jenkintown, PA, for example, was the Signal Corps' prime contractor for the same services for much bigger and more well-known Signal Corps tool-sets (TE-47, TE-109, etc). They bought massive amounts of tools and toolboxes from several sources and integrated them into several different tool-sets for transport. Characterizing them as profiteers is erroneous and unfair. The tool-sets were required and badly needed. Shorthanded in HQ staff, it was the Signal Corps' decision to outsource those tasks to acquire and assemble them, and companies such as the Fleck Brothers provided a valuable service. To be objective, it does look like R.T.E.C. was on the marginal fringe of that approach, and they did run afoul of the Signal Corps for shoddy business practices, which took them to court over it.

Characterizing "defense spending" during WWII as "out of control" would be nearly impossible to justify. War Production Board records show that we were actually under budget in almost every resource, and supply was almost always behind projected needs in almost every resource. It's unreasonable to judge companies for going into business during the "Emergency" period or after we actually declared war when the WPB was so far behind its projected needs that it was asking (and in some cases forcing) existing manufacturing enterprises to convert their factories from civilian to weapons production and we were conducting scrap drives for everything from rubber to steel. All the services and branches of the War Department were buying like crazy to meet WPB projected demand.

I am ignorant of Craftsman tools being supplied to the military.

Sears & Roebuck had several contracts with the Signal Corps. Buying New Britain-made Craftsman-branded tools from the local Sears & Roebuck company was probably more convenient than going to New Britain, who was making tools for the QMC, the Ordnance Dept, the Treasury Dept (Lend Lease) and the Navy and others. Was there a mark-up for their service? No doubt. And the Signal Corps was the fattest of the technical branches by far.

I know Roosevelt took over Montgomery Wards to make them comply with his orders.

That was because a labor dispute was holding up supplies. The WPB had an entire division just for managing labor disputes and price controls.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ricky Joe,
I didn't say every American company was saintly or motivated by patriotism alone. But we don't have any facts to lump R.T.E.C. in with any wrong doing other than a breech of contract at some point in late 1944. The fact that they did produce some tool-sets is a given by the examples collected. The fact that they either ran behind production schedule or failed to provide the quantities ordered is established by the suit. And I certainly have no interest in pursuing a larger historical topic of the nascent beginnings of the military-industrial complex, either its pros or its cons, on this thread or any thread on GJ.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I didn't say I had no interest in it. I said I had no interest in discussing it on GJ, where it is broadly off-topic to the thread. And of course I can ignore it. I was politely letting you know that I would be, and why, since we were the only ones in the latter part of the conversation, rather than just not replying.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Catching back up to some of the details...

Note that the 1/4" spinner handles in both bill300d and d42jeep's sets appear to be made with a red plastic handle instead of the tan colored handle in my set above. Mine appears to have been faded by UV light.

I didn't really notice until you pointed yours out, but now that you mention it, mine is somewhere in between maroon and tan, so I think your observation about UV effects is spot on.

Here is a small pair of RTEC ignition pliers.

Besides the one in my set, which is caked in dry cosmolene that I am loathe to remove, yours is the only other one I have seen, Don. (See thumbnails for a few close-ups of mine.)

They appear to be identical. They're stamped in the same location, too, on the same shoulder, but your stamping (or mine?) is upside down. I'd be interested in your thoughts - and everyone else's, on possible mfgrs. I have not done any close comparisons, and I don't think I could distinguish them by mfgr without studying them further.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

On the subject of CONTENTS

The pliers in Don's and my sets - and the "R.T.E.C." stamped electrical wrenches in my set, bring up the question of what contents constitute a complete R.T.E.C. set, a subject some of the other threads have touched on briefly, that we should probably re-visit here on the dedicated thread.

We have no R.T.E.C. catalog (and I wouldn't expect one, as there is no evidence of commercial sales).

The best source would be a Signal Corps manual, but I can't find an exact match for this electrical kit, although there is something similar in set TE-41. More on that below.

The big question is whether the sets R.T.E.C. was providing to the Signal Corps came in different configurations (i.e., a set with sockets, a spinner and a sliding T, without pliers and wrenches), or whether there was only one large combination set (like the kinds Williams and a few other mfgrs made) with sockets, a spinner, a sliding T, and pliers and electrical wrenches.

If the "7016" on the R.T.E.C. labels is a set number (which I always assumed), and we've only ever seen that one set number on an R.T.E.C. label, I'm assuming it's the latter.

Note that the "R.T.E.C." marked sockets are very consistent in terms of service opening sizes and broachings across four.cycle's and Unaiu's sets.

The sockets in my set (see Thumbnails #1 and #2), all caked in the same dry cosmo as the wrenches, and almost certainly original to each other and the set, are also consistent with four.cycle's and Unaiu's in terms of service opening sizes. One minor distinction is they're all 6-point sockets except for the 3/8", which is a 12-point socket. (That difference could be a function of different OEMs, not of a different set specification.) I have not compared the socket configurations to any of the other partial R.T.E.C. sets we know of, and I'm not sure we have that info from those guys.

My set:

Walden-Worcester 3106 - 6-pt 3/16"
Walden-Worcester 3017 - 6-pt 7/32"
Craftsman BE (this would be the WW 3108!) - 6-pt 1/4"
Walden-Worcester 3109 - 6-pt 9/32"
Walden-Worcester 3110 - 6-pt 5/16"
Walden-Worcester 3111 - 6-pt 11/32"
Walden-Worcester 3112 - 12-pt 3/8"
(Missing 7/16")

Back on the electrical wrenches (see Thumbnail #3) - note that they are miniature engineers' configuration, not classic 15* x 60* or 15* x 75* ignition configurations. Note also that I have been watching for "R.T.E.C." stamped wrenches for over a year now and I have never seen or found any other than these four (4) size combinations. I'm not ready to say it's definitive, but it sure looks like these are the only four (4) wrenches that went in the kit.

5/16" x 3/8"
9/32" x 11/32"
15/64" x 1/4"
13/64" x 7/32"

Finally, note that these precise four (4) wrenches, these precise eight (8) sockets, a spinner, a sliding T, and ignition pliers are the precise contents of a 15-piece Williams Electrical Set 1285P. (See Thumbnail #4)

I'm not saying Williams was the/an OEM for the "R.T.E.C." stamped electrical wrenches and pliers (although it is a possibility). I am saying it sure looks like R.T.E.C. and/or the Signal Corps modeled the R.T.E.C. 7016 set after the 15-pc Williams 1285P set.

That is not surprising. J.H. Williams definitively supplied a midget wrench set to the Signal Corps for Tool Equipment (TE) set TE-41. They are listed as the supplier in the manual. Signal Corps stock number 6R 55503. The figure of the wrench set in the manual has more wrenches, looking like a set somewhere in between the 15-pc Williams 1285P and the 20-pc Williams 1291P in terms of contents. But Wrench Set 6R 55503 is not specified in detail by piece parts in that manual, so it's possible the Signal Corps did not order it by piece part specs, but at the set level, and weren't too particular about the piece parts. And it's possible that they turned to R.T.E.C. as a secondary source for the kits, who in turn bought piece parts from Walden, Craftsman, and other OEMs to put additional wrench sets together for TE-41 fieldings.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Addendum:

Here is the image of a Signal Corps TE-41 set from a 1948 French Army version of a wartime US Army Signal Corps manual.

See item 16 for the Williams wrench set, with only six (6) sockets and a few hard to identify handles shown in the open box, and eight (8) miniature engineers type electrical wrenches outside the box.

Note again the picture does not exactly match a Williams 1285P or 1291P set. The 1285P, like the R.T.E.C. sets, only had four (4) engineers type electrical wrenches. The 1291P had ten (10) electrical wrenches, and they were ignition type, with 15* x 75* angles. There are many possible explanations. The figure not matching a 1285P or a 1291P doesn't diminish the relevance, for me, of the reference to Williams as the supplier of the set in the Signal Corps manual and the identical configuration of the Williams 1285P set to the sets associated with R.T.E.C., a verified Signal Corps supplier. More research required, but I am excited by the strong lead.

EDIT: Am I seeing things or does the label on the inside lid of the open supposedly Williams wrench set box look like an R.T.E.C. label to anyone else!!!??? It's rectangular, like the R.T.E.C. label, and proportionally, the same size as the R.T.E.C. label, unlike the shape or size of a Williams label, which is fancier/banner-like, and much, much larger! The box itself is the same shape as the R.T.E.C. box and has the friction clasp in the center, just like the R.T.E.C. box, but the socket tray should be in the back, not the front.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Couple more things...

Note that the US Army Signal Corps used a phonetic approach to its internal model numbering system. CH-77? Chest for mechanics tools. BG-44? Bag for several lineman's tool-sets. TE-41? Tool equipment for general purpose radio receiving sets. Note that the "TE" in R.T.E.C. also stood for Tool Equipment. To say they had a narrow corporate focus is an understatement.

The War Assets Administration conducted a massive Surplus Sale in Salt Lake City, Utah, on November 1947. It was advertised in many newspapers across the county. Linked here is just one example of the same ad, this one from the Idaho Falls Post-Register. Inventory included, "$100,400 WORTH OF RADIO SETS ALIGNMENT TOOLS, Mfg. by Randolph Tool Equipment Corp. for U.S. Signal Corps (Packed 1 to box)."

I wouldn't be surprised if some if not most or all of the collected sets came out of that sale or sales just like that one.

 

[four.cycle]

I'm not able to view the ad you linked to in your post above - I don't have a subscription there.

My eyes aren't good enough to make sense of the TE-41 page from the manual posted above. You have my email addy.

Somewhere around here I have a Williams "Midget Electrical" set box only - and as I recall the label inside the lid is a bit fancier than those seen in the images of the RTEC sets. I think it's a 1285, but I'm not sure.

Funny that you should ask about those pliers. Just this morning an older set of Wilde 5-inch ignition pliers (model 5S ??) was listed on Ebay and they have that same oversize head on the attaching screw:



(* We know from anecdotal reports (L. Froeschl, pers. comm.) that Wilde had secured a contract with the military for supplying bayonets during WWII and took advantage of the contract to procure steel to keep producing tools, so it's reasonable to conclude that Wilde was still actively engaged in manufacturing pliers between 1942 and 1945.)

Again, the only RTEC wrench I have is chromed and polished, and (like the Williams box) is buried here somewhere. As I recall, the heads are at the "standard" angles found on ignition wrenches.
I would never have given "RTEC" a second thought had it not been for that wrench having been included in a "grab bag" of stuff I got from an Ebay seller.

I have at least a couple early Walden (Walden Worcester) sets and there seems to be a mix of 6-point and 12-point sockets in at least one: 3/16" - 9/32 is 6-point, 5/16" and up is 12-point, which is the same as what I have in my RTEC set shown in the first post of this thread.

Your speculation about the existing RTEC sets we're seeing having come from surplus sales is probably correct. Why would an infantryman be concerned about bringing a tool kit back home from a theater of war? His M1, sure. A Japanese bayonet, sure. A dinky little tool kit? Doubtful.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Couple more things...

Note that the US Army Signal Corps used a phonetic approach to its internal model numbering system. CH-77? Chest for mechanics tools. BG-44? Bag for several lineman's tool-sets. TE-41? Tool equipment for general purpose radio receiving sets. Note that the "TE" in R.T.E.C. also stood for Tool Equipment. To say they had a narrow corporate focus is an understatement.

would CA-211 fit with that somehow? 9/32 stubby spinner.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...it's reasonable to conclude that Wilde was still actively engaged in manufacturing pliers between 1942 and 1945.

Wilde is a verified WWII supplier, four.cycle. They made ignition sets with pressed steel wrenches and pliers, black oxide finish, among other things. I'll see if I can find an example on G503.com and do a comparison.

would CA-211 fit with that somehow? 9/32 stubby spinner.

I wish I could help you and Don out with the Great Stubby Spinner Mystery, but I don't think it's Signal Corps.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Spotted this at the used tool store today I'd guess $3-5 plus the ride if somebody wants it, but I apparently was to distracted to mentally register the price.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I think Unaiu needs them. I could be wrong. I'll email him in case he's not tracking this thread.

 

[Username already in use]

PM sent!
Thanks for the ping, Lugz.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

We R.T.E.C.'ers gotta stick together!

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Picked up today, there is a signature on the reverse unless its a Rail Road Tool.
I'd say Plomb was not the maker.

Jaws fairly sharp, action is good.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

On the subject of CONTENTS...[ ]....note that these precise four (4) wrenches, these precise eight (8) sockets, a spinner, a sliding T, and ignition pliers are the precise contents of a 15-piece Williams Electrical Set 1285P.

I'm not saying Williams was the/an OEM for the "R.T.E.C." stamped electrical wrenches and pliers (although it is a possibility). I am saying it sure looks like R.T.E.C. and/or the Signal Corps modeled the R.T.E.C. 7016 set after the 15-pc Williams 1285P set.

That is not surprising. J.H. Williams definitively supplied a midget wrench set to the Signal Corps for Tool Equipment (TE) set TE-41. They are listed as the supplier in the manual. Signal Corps stock number 6R 55503....[ ]...And it's possible that they turned to R.T.E.C. as a secondary source for the kits, who in turn bought piece parts from Walden, Craftsman, and other OEMs to put additional wrench sets together for TE-41 fieldings.

Yes, I am quoting myself, because this morning I had a CL score that very strongly confirms my informed hunch above.

The gist: a military surplus box of twenty (20) electrical kit repacks, half Williams 1285P's, and half what appear to be R.T.E.C. supplied 1285P knockoffs, using pieces from various mfgrs, just as I had conjectured above.

Much more to follow!

 

[Username already in use]

OH MAN! Lemme know what you want for one of each!

 

[d42jeep]

I might be interested in a Williams one if you are letting them go.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am only keeping one of each, so yes, I will be selling the others. I have to go through them all, make an inventory, and appraise them for completeness and condition. Judging by the units the seller opened (discarding the wax paper and boxes, unfortunately!), and a few others I just carefully peeked at, they are not all the same.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

So after a nap I managed to go through the R.T.E.C. sets.

This is what all of the sets look like inside with all the pieces coated in cosmolene, then wrapped in wax paper.

None of the boxes have an R.T.E.C. decal on the inside or outside, but they are all identical in size and make to my R.T.E.C. set with decals.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Between careful partial unwrapping and inspection, and the set that the seller had opened and cleaned...

...I have been able to determine that the sets are identical in contents (and again, as I suspected a long time ago, adhere precisely to the Williams 1285P specs), and they are very similar with some slight variations in terms of mfgrs.

- All of the spinners are Plomb 4749.
- All of the sliding tee's are unmarked.
- All of the pliers are R.T.E.C.
- Most of the sockets are all R.T.E.C., but some of the sets have a few Walden-Worcester sockets. (As a reminder, note that my current R.T.E.C. set had all WW sockets.)
- The wrenches are either R.T.E.C., WILDE, or a mix of R.T.E.C. and WILDE. The WILDE wrenches are marked with a model number; the R.T.E.C. are not.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As I speculated last year, it seems safe to conclude that whoever the customer was (i.e., US Army Signal Corps, perhaps US Army Ordnance Dept, etc), they used Williams as a spec source and supplier, and, for whatever reason (Williams couldn't meet their demand, or perhaps they wanted a more economical option, etc), they also contracted with R.T.E.C. to also supply sets to the same specs, assembled from pieces made in-house and/or acquired from other mfgrs. These demonstrate a remarkable uniformity. My hunch is these were never issued, never decaled, and then re-packed for long-term storage.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's a group shot for posterity! The seller opened two of these and cleaned the one set in the middle. I opened the other five (the one I am keeping is not in the picture). And I am going to leave the other three boxes sealed with their original packing tape. They will be mystery boxes. But almost certainly with the same contents as the others, as described upthread.

 

[d42jeep]

I suspect that not only did Plomb supply the spinners, they likely supplied the boxes as well. The green box is the one my ‘45 set came in and the red box is username’s postwar set.
-Don