All three wires hot?

[MrBalll]

I have a switch for a fireplace mantle that has never worked since I moved in. This switch was added recently from what I can see.

I used a non contact tester and all three showed hot.

I then used one of the two wires and small light ac/dc testers. I used the ground on a nearby light switch I knew was wired correctly. I used the good ground and all three wires of the bad switch showed a light on the probe tester. The light was a lot dimmer then when I tested an outlet, but it still lit up.

A lot of wiring in this house is terrible so it didn't surprise me. Some of the switches and plugs don't even have a ground. Just curious what would cause all three to be hot?

House was built in 64.

Edit: Haven't opened the panel and looked at wiring inside. I'd rather not to be honest. Not well versed in electrical and I also have OCD and am afraid of what I'd find inside.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Mis-wired through a 3 way switch, or someone used that outlet/box to bring together a common neutral? I've seen some really screwey tied neutrals like this - they work (sort of) but not well. My advice - If you don't want to look, hire an electrician who will.

 

[pattenp]

Non contact testers are only good for showing the presence of power not identifying which individual wires are hot. A meter or test light is needed.

 

[rlitman]

Non contact testers are only good for showing the presences of power not identifying which individual wires are hot. A meter or test light is needed.

Well, they can, but they can also be misleading.

For example, if you have a lighted switch, the voltage across the neon light will fool the tester.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Don't trust the cheap idiot lights.

 

[Bert_]

The cheap NCV tester are just that cheap junk. They light up when your within a foot of anything hot.

I've got a Fluke that works pretty well but you still need to use common sense and caution when using it.

A normal volt meter is much more reliable, even a cheap one.

 

[MrBalll]

Thanks guys. I may just get the voltmeter out and test it.

 

[Git]

I have this Fluke T+ Pro which really comes in handy when working on electrical wiring. It's kind of idiot proof - one of the probes can be attached to meter so it is really easy to stick into a box and hit the ground and when you do find a hot wire, the meter shakes, makes a sound and lights up

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VRHD4S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Bert_]

I have this Fluke T+ Pro which really comes in handy when working on electrical wiring. It's kind of idiot proof - one of the probes can be attached to meter so it is really easy to stick into a box and hit the ground and when you do find a hot wire, the meter shakes, makes a sound and lights up

UGH, only if you can turn all that extra beeping a junk OFF. I have an ideal clamp meter that I rarely use because if your measuring more than like 60 volts it starts beeping, hate it. I just want a number not a noise machine or a light show.

At least the fluke volt pen I have lets you shut off the sound by holding the power button for a second when turning it on. Then it's just a red light if it senses power.

 

[alfredeneuman]

It sounds like you're in over your head and should hire a qualified electrician to at least troubleshoot the issue.
All this talk about the pros and cons of various testers is useless unless you know how to use them.

 

[pattenp]

It sounds like you're in over your head and should hire a qualified electrician to at least troubleshoot the issue.
All this talk about the pros and cons of various testers is useless unless you know how to use them.

Well.. Duh. The point of the forum is ask questions and to be educated. So discussing the pro and cons of testers is not useless.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Well.. Duh. The point of the forum is ask questions and to be educated. So discussing the pro and cons of testers is not useless.

Well.. Duh. It's off the original topic, (which was derailed) and buried within a thread where it's unexpected info. (and nobody has successfully answered the OP's question)

Maybe somebody ought to start a comprehensive thread dedicated to the pros and cons of various test equipment? (with explanations why)

 

[cdestuck]

Even one of those cheap red multi meters from harbor freight is ok for what you’re going.

 

[Bert_]

It sounds like you're in over your head and should hire a qualified electrician to at least troubleshoot the issue.
All this talk about the pros and cons of various testers is useless unless you know how to use them.

Maybe it is over the OP's head. But we can at least educate him about the proper tool to use when diagnosing a problem, which in this case is a voltmeter.

 

[CJ7VFR]

... Just curious what would cause all three to be hot?....

Well.. Duh. It's off the original topic, (which was derailed) ...... (and nobody has successfully answered the OP's question)...

In order to answer the question, which is above, people have suggested the OP use an actual multi-meter, that has individual probes, to check each individual wire.

Since the OP's simple non-contact tester is showing voltage at all three wires, people are suggesting that this type of tester may not be the correct tool to determine if all, or just one of the three wires, are indeed hot.

When actual electricians on this forum, with literally decades of experience, make suggestions as to what is the proper tool to use for certain tasks, like they are doing here, it is to help educate people.

In order to find out whether or not all three of the wires the OP thinks are hot, he has to use the proper tool to accomplish that task. Just like Bert said. No more, no less.

I would call that trying to help find the answer to the actual question posed by the OP, and not trying to derail it. The first thing that needs to be addressed is whether or not all three of the wires are indeed hot. If using a proper multi-meter shows they are, then suggestions will be given as to how to find the source of that problem.

If, after using the multi-meter, it is found out that only one of the wires is hot, then the original question is answered, and there is no actual problem with the circuit, and it is probably wired up as it should be.

Jim

 

[alfredeneuman]

When actual electricians on this forum, with literally decades of experience, make suggestions as to what is the proper tool to use for certain tasks, like they are doing here, it is to help educate people.

I've spent the last 45+ years straight doing electrical work, and suggested that he hire a competent electrician to at least troubleshoot the issue because it didn't appear that anyone here had the answer to his question.

 

[MrBalll]

Tomorrow I will finally have a day off, 14 hour night shifts are long and I don't want to do anything but sleep when I get home.

As of now I appreciate all those who contributed and let me know what to do. Like I said I'll check tomorrow and report back.

 

[66cj225]

I have a switch for a fireplace mantle that has never worked since I moved in. This switch was added recently from what I can see.
Mantle what? Light, gas fireplace, ceiling light?

The light was a lot dimmer then when I tested an outlet, but it still lit up.

Alarm Bell!!!

Just curious what would cause all three to be hot?[/U]

Floating ground. Pole, panel or device.

House was built in 64.

Well, city water or none?

 

[CJ7VFR]

because it didn't appear that anyone here had the answer to his question.

You suggested he get a real electrician to look at it, which is an excellent suggestion.

But, this also does not answer his actual original question right? You said get an electrician to look at it. That is your suggestion to finding out what the problem is. And it is probably the best suggestion.

However, this being a forum where people ask questions, and others try to help them figure out the issues before calling in a pro, means they have given their suggestion to help find out what the problem is. By telling the OP to get a multi-meter and using that to zero in on the problem himself is extremely helpful.

He may find out that indeed all three wires are hot, and thus decide that trying to fix the issue is best left up to a pro. But, by using a multi-meter, and finding out that perhaps only one wire is hot, as it should be, and there is really no problem, will save the OP some money by not having to call in a pro.

Both suggestions, yours and theirs, are great suggestions. But I think it is unfair that you said everyone was derailing the post with their suggestions about using the correct tool, and using it in the correct way, to first try and figure out what the problem is.

Jim

 

[alfredeneuman]

The suggestion to call a qualified electrician still stands.

At least the OP will stay safe. Just the title of the thread (3 wires hot???) shows that he isn't sure of what he's doing.
To suggest someone like this work with or even test HOT conductors may very well end up with disastrous results.

 

[pattenp]

The suggestion to call a qualified electrician still stands.

At least the OP will stay safe. Just the title of the thread (3 wires hot???) shows that he isn't sure of what he's doing.
To suggest someone like this work with or even test HOT conductors may very well end up with disastrous results.

Well if that's the case then we should not give any further electrical advice to the vast majority of people asking electrical questions on this forum unless we truly know the knowledge and skill level of the individual asking for help.