Rock Island Vises - History/Info?

[KMScott]

Thanks A E Numan. Updated.

 

[Aaron_W]

Quite few bench vise threads, but this seems the best place to ask about a Rock Island.

I just bought a Rock Island 442, it is a 3-4" bench vise with a swivel mount. Anvil shaped with an exposed screw similar in appearance to a Columbian Red Arrow.
Kind of an unusual feature is a square nut for the swivel lock rather than the more common lever. I found photos of a few and they all have this nut, so I think it is original, not a shop fix.


I can't find anything here that matches up to that ID number or description. There was a 1935 Sears ad that shows a similar vise.

I'll post some photos and more details when it arrives. Hoping maybe someone knows more about it. It is going to be a working vise so really just curiosity.

Even with shipping the price was only comparable to a similar size Harbor Freight, so was a no brainer decision. Looks well used but looks to be in good shape for what I'm assuming is a 60-80 year old vise.

 

[drivesitfar]

Aaron: welcome to Garage Journal first of all. also I'm not familiar with that model even though Rock Island vises are one of my favorites. as you maybe read already in this thread Rock Island vise company sold to Birtman Electric about 1930 i'm guessing and then Birtman quit making vises with the Rock Island name on the side and their badges on them about 1957 or therabouts.

when you get pictures this thread doesn't have as many member's eyes on it so i'd suggest either posting up your cool new vise and asking questions on the big vise thread that almost has 10 million views and here's the link:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44782

or if you might need more help spiffing it up or any repairs here's a link to the vise repair 101 thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830

good luck and i hope it's in good enough condition to use and make you happy you bought a good old piece of iron made in the US of A.

 

[Fierljeppen]

I just bought a Rock Island 442, it is a 3-4" bench vise with a swivel mount. Anvil shaped with an exposed screw similar in appearance to a Columbian Red Arrow.

Kind of an unusual feature is a square nut for the swivel lock rather than the more common lever. I found photos of a few and they all have this nut, so I think it is original, not a shop fix.

I can't find anything here that matches up to that ID number or description. There was a 1935 Sears ad that shows a similar vise.

I'll post some photos and more details when it arrives. Hoping maybe someone knows more about it. It is going to be a working vise so really just curiosity.

Even with shipping the price was only comparable to a similar size Harbor Freight, so was a no brainer decision. Looks well used but looks to be in good shape for what I'm assuming is a 60-80 year old vise.

Nice find! You're right, there doesn't seem to be much information out there about this vise. I'd say your guess of 60-80 yrs. old is probably right.

What I do know: 3" jaws, 3-1/2" opening, 10-1/2" OAL, 15 lbs.

I like Rock Island vises, they definitely made a quality product. Use it, don't abuse it and I'm sure it will last you a long time. I commend you for purchasing this vise over a new Harbor Freight vise!

When you get some photos, post them on the main vise thread and someone may be able to get you more information about your vise.

 

[Aaron_W]

Thanks, I will have a look at those threads and hit that main thread for more info. The vise just got here today which is several days earlier than estimated.

Those photos are the vise, in fact look like the ones the ebay seller posted so that might actually be my vise.
It is a little guy but feels so much more substantial than the same size vises I found on store shelves.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: does anybody have catalog pages of Rock Island vises that they can post on this thread? I'm looking for #'s and trying to figure out how Rock Island numbered them and my old half dead laptop isn't cooperating that has a lot of my old vise information in it.

thanks in advance!!

 

[chrisnazzy]

This is all I've ever been able to find drives. Nothing with the newer three digit numbering system. On the first page though you can see that most of the later swivel base and stationary base vises just seem to have a "5" added in front so 57x for swivel base and 59x for stationary.

I wish I could find a page showing my 853 swivel base / swivel jaw manufactured Oct. 1958. That's got to be almost right before they ceased making vises.

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[devans522]

I don't have any catalog pages as I'm still kind of digging into what vise I have. Thanks to a GJ member here, Mgroome, I believe I have an old Rock Island vise/anvil.
The pictures in the patent notice seem to match up to my vise.
Here's a link to the patent, it's too large for me to post here.
http://datamp.org/patents/search/advance.php?pn=1111103&id=12696&set=1

I do intend to clean up and paint the vise and put it to work.

 

[Fierljeppen]

I don't have any catalog pages as I'm still kind of digging into what vise I have.

I do intend to clean up and paint the vise and put it to work.

Here's a catalog page of your vise. It would be cool if you could find the drill attachments.

Either way, it's a really stylish vise in my opinion.

 

[Jonny Rotten]

I just bought a #74 Rock Island vise. My first old vise and certainly has a cool factor. What I like most about it is the bulbous end style on the crank handle. Has that 1920's vibe to it.It seems to be in near perfect condition. The jaws line up perfect and it operates with one finger.The guy said it was his wifes grandfathers. Trying to figure out the date it was made. I see no markings on the shaft as some have mentioned. The 292 is on the bottom of the swivel. 1929? Could the 824 be 8th month of 24? Seems like a large number to put in a visable place for a date? Its a 2 digit number. #74 so my research tells me its older compared to a 3 digit #574 and pre 1930. There are no screws in the jaw face, which I've read dates it as even older. The sleeve comes off which I read helps in dating it.Spent a $100 which is fine because I was just looking for a vise to use. After seeing the restored painted pics I'll be restoring it at some time in the near future...any ideas on the date or comments are welcome..thank you

 

[JAYoung]

New GJ member here, and here is my Rock Island 231, complete with pipe jaws. It came with my house, so I know nothing of its history or age. It's a bit beat-on, but still works well. The black item to the left is a 9x9x1 7/8 slab of steel that my Dad picked up somewhere and which I use for an anvil or whenever I need a nice, compact 70-pound weight.

 

[Maui]

Nice looking 231!

 

[drivesitfar]

Jay: i can't tell you exactly when that vise left the factory, but pretty sure it was prior to WWII. it's a different vise with that anvil and pipe jaws and usually the vises with anvils aren't all that great, but if anybody could make a nice vise it would be Rock Island which might be my favorite brand.

also welcome to the forum and hope you get to know some of us and get to like this place as much as I do.

Johnny: sorry for the late reply, but i didn't see your post and i don't check this thread that often. my guess is pre 1920 cause I'm pretty sure Rock Island had replaceable jaws in the early 1920's on their bench vises. you did well on finding that old vise that looks like it's in great shape and once you compare what you can buy new for a benjamin you'll know you made a good buy too.

 

[frankenkj]

I just picked up a Morgan 100A and a Rock Island 51A from my dad - searching online, I'm finding zero information on this Rock Island model... does anyone here know an approx age for this guy ?

Not sure I want to do a full restoration, but I do want to get some of the rust off there - probably just take a wire wheel to it to remove the rust, then oil.

<a href="https://ibb.co/ftj34e"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/gQLbPe/20180903_182200.jpg" alt="20180903_182200" border="0"></a>

 

[Fierljeppen]

I just picked up a Morgan 100A and a Rock Island 51A from my dad - searching online, I'm finding zero information on this Rock Island model... does anyone here know an approx age for this guy ?

Not sure I want to do a full restoration, but I do want to get some of the rust off there - probably just take a wire wheel to it to remove the rust, then oil.

<a href="https://ibb.co/ftj34e"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/gQLbPe/20180903_182200.jpg" alt="20180903_182200" border="0"></a>

Greetings...I don't know how old your vise is but I found an ad from 1920. It's a really nice vise from a collectors perspective. I'd certainly give you very good value if you were interested.

If no one else chimes in with more information, I'd recommend that you do a search in GJ. There's probably more information here than anywhere else on the web.

Checkout the attachments for more details.

 

[chrisnazzy]

I just picked up a Morgan 100A and a Rock Island 51A from my dad - searching online, I'm finding zero information on this Rock Island model... does anyone here know an approx age for this guy ?

Not sure I want to do a full restoration, but I do want to get some of the rust off there - probably just take a wire wheel to it to remove the rust, then oil.

Pre 1930 based on the cast in jaws and lack of Birtman Electric tag.

Your model 51 would be later become an 851 with replaceable jaws. I don't have a catalog page to share on this vise unfortunately. I have an 853 (4.5" swivel jaw, swivel base) that is dated Oct. 1958 and is the only example I've seen.

Below is a pic of an 851 that I saved at some point here on GJ. The 2nd pic is my 853.

EDIT:

After reading Fierljeppen's post and looking more closely at your vise pic I stand corrected on the 3.5" jaws. Obviously your 51 has 4" jaws although I'm still pretty confident that the two 851's I've seen other GJ'ers post here had 3.5" jaws. Also Fierljeppen's catalog scan shows a model 53 would have 5" jaws but my 853 is definitely 4.5" so it would appear that the Rock Island swivel jaw vise model numbers do not directly correspond from the early 2 digit to the later 3 digit.

FIERLJEPPEN

You never cease to impress with the catalog scans. I've saved images of every one I can and I've never seen the Rock Island page you posted. Any chance you have one showing the later swivel jaws like my 853?

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[frankenkj]

Thanks for the catalog images!
For now I'm going to hang onto it, sentimental value and all that.

It looks like the swivel lock arm is missing on mine, although it's not swiveling. Maybe its just rusted in place... Are swivel locks and nuts able to still be found?

 

[Fierljeppen]

chrisnazzy...That's all I have on that model. I'm really surprised how little information there is for Rock Island vises, based on the amount of years and vises they manufactured. There's got to be someone out there that has some meaningful catalogs that can be shared.

frankenkj...You should keep it forever, it really is an awesome vise! Use the link below to post some more photos and ask some repair questions for the real experts on the repair thread. Your success will be based on your personal skill-set and network. You came to the right place, there truly is some serious talent here. Best of luck to you.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830&highlight=vise+repair+thread

 

[drivesitfar]

Frank: even if it wasn't your Dad's vise your Rock Island is a KEEPER. I own a Rock Island swivel jaw that needs some spiffing up and I sent one across the boarder to a member that spiffed another one up that i think he still has sitting on his bench as a daily user.

I have to agree with Fier (great guy and member who knows a ton about these old vises) and Chris that your Rock Island swivel jaw vise is probably from the early 20's with the style of lettering, the cast in jaws and the style. it looks like your dad or maybe the guy he bought it from replaced the original swivel jaw's pin with a bolt, but other than that it looks terrific.


Fier and Chris: thanks for your input on maybe my favorite vise maker.

 

[frankenkj]

Thanks for the info guys

 

[AngryBeaver]

soooo I have a rock island 241... just picked it up a few days ago. The ad above calls the 240 and 241 and AUTOVISE. it lists the 240 as a 3" and 241 as a 3.5"...

Well, mine is a 4" and opens up 5". weighs 80lbs without the pipe jaws. wondering if they upped the size from 3-1/2 to 4" as a running change. this one has the patent date of 1914 on it.

the oldest date stamped Rock I've have is 6/1940. it was a craftsman 5163. Have not seen any of the welded/cast in jaw model rock islands have a date stamp on the slide, or anywhere else for that matter.

I wonder if the date stamping started when the removable jaws were added....

I'm guessing this on is 1920's or earlier.

 

[Fierljeppen]

Nice find! It looks like they made a change around 1920, going up in size. So that would make your's 1920 or newer.

I'm going to have to check one out in person, it looks like a pretty nice combo with a usable anvil for light work.

 

[AngryBeaver]

Nice find! It looks like they made a change around 1920, going up in size. So that would make your's 1920 or newer.

I'm going to have to check one out in person, it looks like a pretty nice combo with a usable anvil for light work.

I actually wondered if it it was a typo in the ads.. if they made a a running change with the same model # I'd think the patent date wouldn't be on a later model.

Its weird to me that the specs are exacty the same, minus the jaw width... you'd think another 1/2 of an inch of jaw width would add a ton of weight... just like the 3" to 3-1/2 did....

stout little ****** for sure. slide was never beat on ( thanks to the anvil). very usable size comparable to a wilton 1765 "size, not overly huge like a lot of the combination vises. and Its going to see light anvil sheetmetal work on my fab table.

 

[Fierljeppen]

I actually wondered if it it was a typo in the ads.. if they made a a running change with the same model # I'd think the patent date wouldn't be on a later model.

Its weird to me that the specs are exacty the same, minus the jaw width... you'd think another 1/2 of an inch of jaw width would add a ton of weight... just like the 3" to 3-1/2 did....

stout little ****** for sure. slide was never beat on ( thanks to the anvil). very usable size comparable to a wilton 1765 "size, not overly huge like a lot of the combination vises. and Its going to see light anvil sheetmetal work on my fab table.

Valid point, printed data isn't infallible, but it's usually a good place to start.

We just need some more actual measurements from other vise owners. For now, I'm not going to make a judgement either way.

 

[drivesitfar]

AB: my Rock Island 577 didn't have a stamped date on the slide, but if I recall correctly it has a date stamp under it's dynamic jaw of 1935. it also has removable jaws if that might help you figure things out a bit more. i'll have to recall where I have my 577 and when I find it i'll try to take and post a few pictures.

FIER: just curious since you seem to have an amazing capacity for research would you maybe have anything saying Rock Island vise company made the 519x's for Sears?

I started a thread on WHO MADE THE CRAFTSMAN 519x's a year or maybe 2 ago and most of the members and research is pointing towards Rock Island and here's a few of the best reasons:

1) 4 inch rock island vises made from late 40's to late 50's look pretty close and weigh about the same
2) date stamping on the Craftsman vises looks like a Rock Island stamp and I think Rock Island was only company stamping on the top of the slide
3) Rock Island closed it's doors in the late 50's about the same time the 519x's were discontinued
4) removable jaws look similar

there might be more reasons, but I could remember these off the top of my head.

any thoughts?

ALL: anybody else know the history of Rock Island and Craftsman/Sears after WWII?

 

[Fierljeppen]

drivesitfar...I currently don't have any material on Rock Island for the 1940's / 1950's.

Your Rock Island / Craftsman theory seems very plausible to me and if I stumble across anything meaningful, I'll certainly drop it in your thread.

 

[Maui]

I have a Rock Island 241 autovise, and I'm almost certain that the jaw width is in fact 4". I'll have to check tonight when I get home and see. And it does weigh in the neighborhood of 80 lbs.

 

[Fierljeppen]

If anyone has a Rock Island No. 241 Autovise, please measure the width of the jaws and weight of the vise. There seems to be a question about the accuracy of their initial ads listing it as 3-1/2" jaws @ 80 lbs.

Right now we have -2- vises with 4" jaws @ 80 lbs.

Thanks!

 

[Maui]

Here are some photos that I took of my Rock Island 241 Autovise earlier today as I was prepping it for paint. I layed a tape measure across the jaws and they measured 4” in width. The patent date on the side is August 11th, 1914.

Maui

 

[Fierljeppen]

New data from 1912 lists the "new autovise" jaws @ 4-1/4", weighing around 80 lbs. This patent pending ad merits the theory leaning heavier toward "angrybeaver".

However, I did find dozens of more ads listing the "241" with 3-1/2" jaws @ 80 lbs? I'm still not convinced there weren't any "241" 3-1/2" jaws produced, but if any were, I doubt they weighed in @ 80 lbs..."Case 241 Autovise" still open.

 

[DblDog]

Rock Island 574

Great info here!

Here’s my 574...left in basement by previous home owner. While I don’t have much use for it, it does have a nice patina and would look good in my shop/office.
So a couple of questions:

1. What information would be on the metal tag on the static side? This one has been painted and would probably leave it. Any idea of vintage?

2. The jaws are pretty beat up. Are they replaceable? These look difficult to remove.

3. There have been comments regarding color. Is this green an original color. I’m guessing not.

Will give it closer look in all in a day or to and update this.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[Fierljeppen]

Re: Rock Island 574

Great info here!

Here’s my 574...left in basement by previous home owner. While I don’t have much use for it, it does have a nice patina and would look good in my shop/office.
So a couple of questions:

1. What information would be on the metal tag on the static side? This one has been painted and would probably leave it. Any idea of vintage?

2. The jaws are pretty beat up. Are they replaceable? These look difficult to remove.

3. There have been comments regarding color. Is this green an original color. I’m guessing not.

Will give it closer look in all in a day or to and update this.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

The tag probably says "Birtman Electric", which were the owners from 1930-1957.

It's hard for me to see the condition of the jaws in the photo, but they were made to be replaceable. Use the vise repair link below and post better photos and repair questions there. Some really talented and gracious members frequent that thread regularly and I'm sure you'll get some worthy responses.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830

As far as color, paint it what ever color you want it to be. It's a really solid vise model and has value to someone if it doesn't work out for you.

 

[drivesitfar]

DD: can you take and post more pictures of the jaws? it looks like you might be missing part of the jaw's support or the actual jaws?

Rock Island did make jaws that weren't removable and cast in, but pretty sure that was prior to Birtman Electric buying them and maybe earlier than the 1920's. so better pics might get you better answers.

Rock Island vises are one of my favorites cause they were built with the LOOK and they had excellent quality that you'd be hard pressed to find in a vise now for less than $400.

 

[Fierljeppen]

New 241 Autovise data...Found a handful more of the 4" jaw 80# 241 Autovise. Much more importantly, I found a (3-1/2" jaw 70#) 241 Autovise. I'll feel a lot better about the (3-1/2" jaw, 70# data) when a GJ member can verify those #'s.

The castings are different between the -2- sizes, see illustration below. I was surprised that I wasn't able to find more examples of the 241 Autovise, since they were suppose to be a high volume production vise. I assume it was a mechanics vise that got "ridden hard and put a way wet" quite a bit.

I'm moving on to my next vise puzzle.

Edit 11-May-2019...GJ member AndrewH has verified a (3-1/2" - 80lb.) Rock Island 241 Autovise with the proper castings according to the theory. The attached photos have been updated.

A special thanks to the "AngryBeaver", "Maui" and "AndrewH" for their verified data!

 

[KMScott]

Good stuff Fierljeppen.

 

[DblDog]

Here are more pics of my 574..the tag after removing some paint...
After looking at it again, the condition is not as good as I had hoped...probably used as much for an anvil as a vise...

 

[notlob]

This thread should be in the vintage tool forum. Mod?

 

[IBaNova]

First post for me. I've been searching for an old vise for some time now. My brother suggested looking at garage journal. I seen a guy with a Rock Island vise, so I had to have one. Well today I purchased one. This lady, probably 80yo said this one belonged to her father. Said she grew up with it. Her father purchased it just after WWII. It has a tag saying "Birtman Electric Company". It says "Made In The United States Of America" too. 3.5" Jaws. Weighs about 40#.
Was it a Good Deal at $80.?

 

[Gunpilot]

First post for me. I've been searching for an old vise for some time now. My brother suggested looking at garage journal. I seen a guy with a Rock Island vise, so I had to have one. Well today I purchased one. This lady, probably 80yo said this one belonged to her father. Said she grew up with it. Her father purchased it just after WWII. It has a tag saying "Birtman Electric Company". It says "Made In The United States Of America" too. 3.5" Jaws. Weighs about 40#.
Was it a Good Deal at $80.?

If it is functional, I’d say you got a good deal. I have one about that size with the Birtman tag on it too.

 

[lafester]

I'm looking for a birtman tag if anyone has a parts vise.



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