Lift & inspection pit - Need some advice please! :)

[Bogdan M.]

Hello,

From 2011 I work in a rented garage that I renovated myself.
It's been a long journey with a lot of small steps, but I still love what I do.
After years of working with an inspection pit, I have had enough.
I believe that the pit is kind of holding me back.
A lot of things take a lot more time because of the pit in comparison with having a lift. And there are specific jobs that are nearly impossible to do with a pit.
Removing a gearbox is a pain because we take the gearbox out by hand. Not very hard on a manual gearbox, but quite hard on a six speed automatic.
And we removed a lot of transmission.
I lost some weight and I don't feel as strong as I used to and I don't want to get hurt.
So I decided I want to buy a two post lift.
Now, the issue with that is that before me there was also a car repair shop in the same building. They had a lift which was placed where I marked with black in the picture below.

That means the car would be very close to the wall, so I won't be able to keep my present layout. This is a very practical layout because I have on my tools at hand and there is no risk of damaging the car I am working on. Having workbenches next to the car is not a good idea.
So I want to have the lift installed further back.
Now comes the difficult stuff - the pit.
There's no point in having both a lift and a pit in the same place.
So I thought about modifying the pit so that the wood planks sit flush with the concrete floor. This means using the lift for storing tools for a second work station in order to be able to work on a second car when I have a car on the lift during a complex job. That would mean lengthening the pit by 6 feet.
The garage is 36 feet long, so this would work.

As you can see, from the red line back, the concrete floor is in terrible shape.
A lot of holes and cracks. And I anyway need to pour a solid foundation for the lift.

The second option would be to just fill up the inspection pit, pour a new floor from the red line towards the door and have only the lift.
The reason why I would prefer having both the lift and the pit is that I was more than once in the position of not being able to do a quick job because I had a car immobilized on the pit. Not many clients want to wait for two days for a quick 1 hour job.

I would be very grateful for any feedback about my issue.

Cheers,
Bogdan

 

[rburke65]

Any idea how thick is the floor?

 

[Bogdan M.]

The floor is 4 inches thick. It's cement, but in very poor state.
I think I could destroy it in a few hours with a sledgehammer.
The cement in front of the red line is very thick and very strong. It was poured 12 years ago and it's very strong. It was poured for the lift they had.
That is why I think I need a new floor from the red line to the door.

 

[baba louey]

I thought long and hard about this when I considered putting a lift in my garage. A friend of mine is a concrete structural engineer and he came up with a footing design for a two post lift. 5' X 5' X 12" thick footing for each post. His concerns were possible tipping when a vehicle was lifted to the maximum height and also the concrete itself failing (not the anchors) right around the posts. He thought his design was a bit conservative. He also brought up the point about earthquake zones and how that might figure into the design.

My solution. I went for a four post lift with a rolling jack. No concrete work required and this handles most if not all of the work that I do.

 

[baba louey]

By the way, I had a pit in my old garage (not my present one). When I poured the concrete for it, I had a 1.5"X1.5" board nailed into the form at grade level. After the pour, I removed the forms and was left with a nice notch at the top of the pit in which I laid 2X10" planks to cover the pit when not in use.

 

[c39er]

I have a 4 poster over my pit....

 

[baba louey]

A four post lift over a pit is probably the most efficient use of space and would require the least amount of concrete work if any at all.

 

[Bogdan M.]

Thanks for all the replies!

The problem is a lot of my work involves working on suspension. I also need to be able to remove sub frames.
This means that a two post lift would be better suited for my garage.
Another thing is my garage is quite small.
If I would have the space and money, I would get both a two post and a four post lift.

@baba louey: Great garage! Congrats!

 

[apollo11]

Hello,

From 2011 I work in a rented garage that I renovated myself.

you are a tenant and want to fill it in?
I'd be pissed if I was the landlord and you did this w/o permission
Why not just make a cover?

 

[Bogdan M.]

The landlady is not interested in the pit. I have her full cooperation as long as I pay the rent on time.
The inspection pit was build by me on my money. So the landlady doesn't really care about it.
Anyway, I will inform her of my decision before doing anything so she can give me the OK to do it.

 

[wssix99]

The least expensive option would be to get a 4 post lift with auxiliary jack accessories to let you lift the wheels and suspension up: http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/accessories/rj-7.aspx

The cost of these accessories will be much less than all the work you will need to do to accommodate a 2 post safely. Plus - you can take a 4 post with you. Any investment you make in a 2 post lift becomes gift to your landlady...

If you read the instructions for some 2 post lifts, you will see that they will generally instruct people in situations with questionable concrete to cut out the concrete and pour repair pads under the legs.

^ With the pit that you have in the middle of the room, you will likely not have enough space for the pads. (They need to be of a certain size due to the physics involved.) Even if you had good concrete in the floor, you might not have enough space. (2 post lifts come with specified distances that the post need to be kept away from cracks and walls - or they assume continual concrete between the posts. In your situation, you would treat the edges of the pit as "cracks" when measuring against the spec.)

 

[GMCGarage]

The least expensive option would be to get a 4 post lift with auxiliary jack accessories to let you lift the wheels and suspension up: http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/accessories/rj-7.aspx

The cost of these accessories will be much less than all the work you will need to do to accommodate a 2 post safely. Plus - you can take a 4 post with you. Any investment you make in a 2 post lift becomes gift to your landlady...

If you read the instructions for some 2 post lifts, you will see that they will generally instruct people in situations with questionable concrete to cut out the concrete and pour repair pads under the legs.

^ With the pit that you have in the middle of the room, you will likely not have enough space for the pads. (They need to be of a certain size due to the physics involved.) Even if you had good concrete in the floor, you might not have enough space. (2 post lifts come with specified distances that the post need to be kept away from cracks and walls - or they assume continual concrete between the posts. In your situation, you would treat the edges of the pit as "cracks" when measuring against the spec.)

Why cant a 2 post lift be removed if he moves out??

 

[Bogdan M.]

The least expensive option would be to get a 4 post lift with auxiliary jack accessories to let you lift the wheels and suspension up: http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/accessories/rj-7.aspx

The cost of these accessories will be much less than all the work you will need to do to accommodate a 2 post safely. Plus - you can take a 4 post with you. Any investment you make in a 2 post lift becomes gift to your landlady...

If you read the instructions for some 2 post lifts, you will see that they will generally instruct people in situations with questionable concrete to cut out the concrete and pour repair pads under the legs.

^ With the pit that you have in the middle of the room, you will likely not have enough space for the pads. (They need to be of a certain size due to the physics involved.) Even if you had good concrete in the floor, you might not have enough space. (2 post lifts come with specified distances that the post need to be kept away from cracks and walls - or they assume continual concrete between the posts. In your situation, you would treat the edges of the pit as "cracks" when measuring against the spec.)

I guess that the prices in my country are very different to the prices in the USA.
Here a 4 post lift like you described costs double the price of a two post lift.

I talked today with someone that installs lifts on a daily basis and he said that a 4 post lift requires 160 mm thick concrete underneath the columns.
A two post lift requires 200 mm thick concrete.
Because of the lift, there must be 400 mm thick reinforced concrete underneath the columns.

If I will need to move, I will be able to take the lift with me.

 

[wssix99]

Why cant a 2 post lift be removed if he moves out??

If the OP has to make tenant improvements to the space, (tearing up the concrete, pouring repair pads, structurally bridging the pit, etc.) then all that money would be lost in a move.

Even if a different type of lift (not requiring a retrofit) costs more money, 100% of that value get's to be kept in a move scenario.

I talked today with someone that installs lifts on a daily basis and he said that a 4 post lift requires 160 mm thick concrete underneath the columns.

That can't be correct. On this side of the pond, 100mm is pretty much a universal spec for all new lifts of all types. Some 4 post lifts don't even need to be anchored into the concrete, which will allow you to go with a thinner slab.

^ I recommend picking out some lifts and reading their instructions to get some solid facts to work with.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Im wondering if a solution like this may be useful. It is a Bendpack low rise pit lift. Here is the link http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/specialty-lifts/p-6fb.aspx

You would still have the pit for quick inspections, and you would be able to lift the car from the chassis so you can work on the suspension. They do make transmission jacks just for pits. Perhaps one of those would work for you.

It's just a thought. Chris

 

[apollo11]

The landlady is not interested in the pit. I have her full cooperation as long as I pay the rent on time.
The inspection pit was build by me on my money. So the landlady doesn't really care about it.
Anyway, I will inform her of my decision before doing anything so she can give me the OK to do it.

it's bizarre to invest in someone else's property like that
have fun

 

[Bogdan M.]

That can't be correct. On this side of the pond, 100mm is pretty much a universal spec for all new lifts of all types. Some 4 post lifts don't even need to be anchored into the concrete, which will allow you to go with a thinner slab.

^ I recommend picking out some lifts and reading their instructions to get some solid facts to work with.

I don't know why there's a difference, but I checked again and it's correct.
Here's there's a totally different market.
I have seen that most of the lifts on GJ are Bendpak. In my country, this brand is not present at all.
I want to buy a Ravaglioli or Nussbaum lift.

 

[Bogdan M.]

it's bizarre to invest in someone else's property like that
have fun

Respectfully, I don't think so. My garage is not just my hobby. It's my main income source.
It's like when a company rents a building for business.
I also think that there's a big difference in cost in comparison to the USA.
I live in Romania. Here pouring cement for a floor like the one in the garage costs $1000 at most.
The lift I want to buy is $3500. And I can take it with me when I will move to another location.

The garage is situated in a very good location. It's right in the city center and I live in the capital city of Romania. Places like this are quite rare.
I don't rent just the garage but also a big yard in front of the garage, so I can park cars that remain at the shop for longer periods of time.

 

[Bogdan M.]

Im wondering if a solution like this may be useful. It is a Bendpack low rise pit lift. Here is the link http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/specialty-lifts/p-6fb.aspx

You would still have the pit for quick inspections, and you would be able to lift the car from the chassis so you can work on the suspension. They do make transmission jacks just for pits. Perhaps one of those would work for you.

It's just a thought. Chris

Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[apollo11]

The landlady is not interested in the pit. I have her full cooperation as long as I pay the rent on time.
The inspection pit was build by me on my money. So the landlady doesn't really care about it.
Anyway, I will inform her of my decision before doing anything so she can give me the OK to do it.

it's bizarre to invest in someone else's property like that
have fun

Respectfully, I don't think so. My garage is not just my hobby. It's my main income source.
It's like when a company rents a building for business.
I also think that there's a big difference in cost in comparison to the USA.
I live in Romania. Here pouring cement for a floor like the one in the garage costs $1000 at most.
The lift I want to buy is $3500. And I can take it with me when I will move to another location.

The garage is situated in a very good location. It's right in the city center and I live in the capital city of Romania. Places like this are quite rare.
I don't rent just the garage but also a big yard in front of the garage, so I can park cars that remain at the shop for longer periods of time.

can you take the pit with you?
that is what I was referring to.
the lift totally makes sense

 

[Bogdan M.]

You are right. The pit was a bad decision.
I did a lot of mistakes back then. I had no life experience and no business experience.

 

[apollo11]

I don't think having pit is a bad decision but spending significant money upgrading others property is.
I'm guessing you did what was necessary at the time and for where you live.

 

[Bogdan M.]

I don't afford buying my own property.
You probably don't realize how cheap it is to build an inspection pit in my country, especially in comparison with US prices.
I built my inspection pit with $800. I don't know how much it would cost in the USA, but I am sure it would be a lot more.
The investment in a lift is going to be a lot more expensive.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I don't afford buying my own property.
You probably don't realize how cheap it is to build an inspection pit in my country, especially in comparison with US prices.
I built my inspection pit with $800. I don't know how much it would cost in the USA, but I am sure it would be a lot more.
The investment in a lift is going to be a lot more expensive.

In my state in the US we are not even allowed to have a pit unless it has its own separate exit and a way to get rid of the fumes because people have been trapped under burning cars and died or had the gas fumes that collected in the pit explode. The garage next to where I worked had a mechanic die in the mid 80s due to an explosion in the pit he was working in, He dropped his drop light and the breaking bulb lit off the gas fumes. About 30 years ago pits like yours had to be filled in. As a result, lifts are the only way to go and can be bought for a few thousand dollars for a good one. The oil Change chains like jiffy lube have “pits” but they are more like a basement with a separate entrance.

 

[sbosecker]

In my state in the US...

Despite the threat of thread creep, may I ask what state that is?

Best regards,

Scott

 

[apollo11]

I don't afford buying my own property.
You probably don't realize how cheap it is to build an inspection pit in my country, especially in comparison with US prices.
I built my inspection pit with $800. I don't know how much it would cost in the USA, but I am sure it would be a lot more.
The investment in a lift is going to be a lot more expensive.

You are correct. For us it's a major undertaking.
800 bucks might cover the permit.

 

[Bogdan M.]

In my state in the US we are not even allowed to have a pit unless it has its own separate exit and a way to get rid of the fumes because people have been trapped under burning cars and died or had the gas fumes that collected in the pit explode. The garage next to where I worked had a mechanic die in the mid 80s due to an explosion in the pit he was working in, He dropped his drop light and the breaking bulb lit off the gas fumes. About 30 years ago pits like yours had to be filled in. As a result, lifts are the only way to go and can be bought for a few thousand dollars for a good one. The oil Change chains like jiffy lube have “pits” but they are more like a basement with a separate entrance.

This applies even to the private garages or just for auto repair shops?

 

[Shadowdog500]

Despite the threat of thread creep, may I ask what state that is?

Best regards,

Scott

My state is New Jersey AKA the "Nanny State" We cant even pump our own gas as the service station!

This applies even to the private garages or just for auto repair shops?

This applied to all pits of the older design like yours where it is just a hole in the floor. I worked in a fleet garage when this went into effect around the mid to late 80s. I knew a couple people who didn't fill in their home pits.

I did a quick scan to try to find the law (or code change) that spelled this out but couldn't, but I do remember when it went into effect.

Chris

 

[Bogdan M.]

You are correct. For us it's a major undertaking.
800 bucks might cover the permit.

I suppose this means that buying and installing a lift is actually cheaper than a pit in the US.

 

[Bogdan M.]

My state is New Jersey AKA the "Nanny State" We cant even pump our own gas as the service station!



This applied to all pits of the older design like yours where it is just a hole in the floor. I worked in a fleet garage when this went into effect around the mid to late 80s. I knew a couple people who didn't fill in their home pits.

I did a quick scan to try to find the law (or code change) that spelled this out but couldn't, but I do remember when it went into effect.

Chris

Thanks for the info!

 

[Bogdan M.]

Update:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7130500&postcount=638

 

[dfiler2]

Very nice!

 

[Bogdan M.]

Thanks!

 

[dfiler2]

Nice clean shop, great looking lift, I can see why people bring their cars to you. Congrats!

 

[Bogdan M.]

Thank you!

 

[gnpenning]

Very nice. Glad you found a solution that works for you. Investing in your business even if it improves the property for the landlord is not a bad thing. It tells the landlord you plan to keep taking care of their property. Hopefully you have a long term lease with an option to buy. As you mentioned, you know you have a great location and want to keep it.

For some reason people forget things are different outside their neighborhood, let alone state or country.

Congratulations.

 

[Shadowdog500]

That lift looks perfect! Congratulations! Chris

 

[Bogdan M.]

Thank you both!