Welding Table Top Question

[FallibleFlyer]

I am in the process of rebuilding my welding table and have ran into a dilemma that I would like some input on. My new table's frame can be seen in my garage thread post, here. I have a few options for the top and they each have their own questions/issues.

The frame is built out of 16ga 1.5" square tubing and made to accommodate a top just over 2'x3' if that helps for relative scale.

1. I could reuse my current welding top, which is comprised of two cast iron table saw tops. They have made a pretty solid welding table for the last five years or so. They're easy to clean, quite hard, and only have a couple low spots (under 1/16th") making it not too difficult to create flat work.
   • As stated they're not perfectly flat. Would I realistically get flatter from just plate/flat bar setup?
   • Clamping is challending due to the uneven underside and large lip on the edge.
2. I could place down a solid 3/8-1/2" plate.
   • Would be a solid option and reasonably flat.
   • How the heck does everyone move these pieces around? I have no chain hoist, no engine hoist, etc. We just moved here, so I lack strong friends. Do I have an "easy" option to move a 120lb+ piece of plate without hurting myself alone?
3. I could build it out of 0.5x6" flat bars.
   • I've seen a number of builds done with 1.5" gaps between the flat bars and bolts used to level the top. I'd likely replicate this.
   • Are the edges of this thickness of flatbar rounded at all? Whenever I've gotten 1/8" flat bar, the edges always have a slightly rounded edge, and they've never seemed truly flat across their surface. Is this true with the thicker material?

 

[Lelandwelds]

All extruded, formed, or rolled material has rounded edges. Machined material has sharp edges.

I rarely use dogs or t slots. I often tack directly to table and sand surface clean at intervals. "Flatness" really depends on how tall and heavy your skirt is that the top ties to.

I have found the greater the thickness and width the more flat it is. I suspect it is more from handling and shipping than production. This metal is intended primarily for fab not machining operations.

Actually, I have found all built in clamping "solutions" are a PITA and the place that everything catches on and small parts disappear through.

 

[FallibleFlyer]

All extruded, formed, or rolled material has rounded edges. Machined material has sharp edges.

I rarely use dogs or t slots. I often tack directly to table and sand surface clean at intervals. "Flatness" really depends on how tall and heavy your skirt is that top ties to.

I have found the greater the thickness and width the more flat it is. I suspect it is more from handling and shipping than production.

Thank you leland, this helps understand the edges and what to expect. I have yet to ever tack a piece to my welding table to effectively camp a piece down, but that has much to do with my current table surface. Does the constant grinding off of welds effect your surface much?

In general, how flat is flat enough for the table top?

 

[Lelandwelds]

The tables most similiar to what you built that I was happiest with were identical in height and had three legs. I moved them around with a pallet jack and used them more like sawhorses. The "table" was always big enough between the four of them. (I started with four anyway.) Sometimes they were in a grid. Sometimes a line. Sometimes scattered inside and out of the shop. Flexible according to need.

The ones I used the most were outside in the dirt. They were level I beams with the tops all the same height. Each was connected underground with rebar. If you ground on one, you never moved your clamp. I never worried about spalling concrete. I had clamp on spacers for two for solid 1/2" steel bar gates and fencing. Except for the weather and theft, it was perfect.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Does the constant grinding off of welds effect your surface much?

In general, how flat is flat enough for the table top?

I sand with an 80 grit flap disc that is always on a grinder. I weld and am not a machinist. If I lay a 3 ft piece of tubing over a .010 depression, I will never notice. If I gouge a spot with a torch, I just weld it up. (Bet most low spots were .002 or .003)

If I am working in wood, my tolerances open up even more.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I am in the process of rebuilding my welding table and have ran into a dilemma that I would like some input on. My new table's frame can be seen in my garage thread post, here.

The frame is built out of 16ga 1.5" square tubing and made to accommodate a top just over 2'x3' if that helps for relative scale.


[*]Clamping is challending due to the uneven underside and large lip on the edge.

[*]I could place down a solid 3/8-1/2" plate.
[
[*]How the heck does everyone move these pieces around? I have no chain hoist, no engine hoist, Do I have an "easy" option to move a 120lb+ piece of plate without hurting myself alone?
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Make certain to keep 3 or 4 in of top clear of paint and apron on all sides. This is needed for clamping and grounding. All my small tables were 1/4" mild steel. There is no need for the tops or legs or any dimension to be the same as another table except for height.


I used a pallet jack,floor jack, or forklift. An easy option is to mount wheels on two legs permanently. The third swivel wheel is lowered by a cheap bottle jack or scissor jack.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Find a friendly scrap yard. Find a friendly metal building component mfg who will sell you his drops. Find a union pipe fitter. The world is largely fabbed from steel.

Sometimes the best table is a pair of steel sawhorses. Make them all your perfect height. Keep an empty steel welding rod can squished flat to keep torch slag from spalling concrete.

Google Image before you start a project.

 

[mike13u]

[*]Are the edges of this thickness of flatbar rounded at all? Whenever I've gotten 1/8" flat bar, the edges always have a slightly rounded edge, and they've never seemed truly flat across their surface. Is this true with the thicker material?
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Cold rolled steel flat bar will have very sharp, 90-degree, edges. Hot rolled flat bar will have rounded edges. Cold rolled is also more tightly dimensioned to specs.
It also isn't true that all extrusions and tube only have rounded edges. Architectural aluminum (usually 6063) traditionally has sharp edges while structural (usually 6061) is typically rounded.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Cold rolled steel flat bar will have very sharp, 90-degree, edges. Hot rolled flat bar will have rounded edges.
It also isn't true that all extrusions and tube only have rounded edges. Architectural aluminum (usually 6063) is all sharp edges while structural (usually 6061) is typically rounded.

Whoops! I forgot 2% of the world production. CR round is common in 1018. Cold roll flat is used more for 1144 etc. OP is building a steel table.

6061 is far, far higher production. Architectural aluminum is almost exclusive to OEMS and is often produced only by order on proprietary dies. It isn't available in most retail channels.

There are lots of less common materials the OP may conceivably find . I was talking of I beam, channel , angle, ERW tubing roll formed into squares, and pipe.

 

[mike13u]

Whoops! I forgot 2% of the world production. CR round is common in 1018. Cold roll flat is used more for 1144 etc. OP is building a steel table.

6061 is far, far higher production. Architectural aluminum is almost exclusive to OEMS and is often produced only by order on proprietary dies. It isn't available in most retail channels.

There are lots of less common materials the OP may conceivably find . I was talking of I beam, channel , angle, ERW tubing roll formed into squares, and pipe.

I got a warehouse full of cold rolled steel and people that come-in to buy it to work on steel projects daily. Same with aluminum tube with hard edges (think storefronts and glaziers). Maybe your experience in your part of the country is different. It's a big part of what we sell and fabricate with.
OP, if you want to go with the slat table design and like the hard edge and the better dimensional tolerances available from cold rolled steel, it is usually slightly more expensive depending on your location than the hot rolled but it makes a fine slat table...and no mill scale!

 

[FallibleFlyer]

I got a warehouse full of cold rolled steel and people that come-in to buy it to work on steel projects daily. Same with aluminum tube with hard edges (think storefronts and glaziers). Maybe your experience in your part of the country is different. It's a big part of what we sell and fabricate with.
OP, if you want to go with the slat table design and like the hard edge and the better dimensional tolerances available from cold rolled steel, it is usually slightly more expensive depending on your location than the hot rolled but it makes a fine slat table...and no mill scale!

Yeah I priced it out; Metal Supermarkets has a store near me that I've been going to. Their price on cold rolled though is nearly double that of hot rolled (roughly $340 vs $175). From what I've read, most people just use hot rolled A36. Is the cold rolled that much flatter overall? I've never dealt with any of the materials I'm looking at for a new welding top first hand and as such have no real idea of flat etc. they truly are. I don't need perfectly flat, but my current top made of table saw tops is pretty flat as they were ground during manufacturing...

Lelandwelds, you made it sound like it likely won't matter as long as the support structure under is sufficiently flat/stable. My concern with a solid plate top is the weight, I just can't physically & safely move around a piece of steel that heavy (if I went 3/8"+ ).

My thought on using the slat design is that I could effectively get a thicker top because each individual piece will be within a weight that I can move on my own. This brought up the concern though as to whether or not the flat bars would be "flat" enough... This may be a silly question, but are those kind of dimensional tolerances generally published and standardized?

 

[Lelandwelds]

I got a warehouse full of cold rolled steel and people that come-in to buy it to work on steel projects daily. Same with aluminum tube with hard edges (think storefronts and glaziers). Maybe your experience in your part of the country is different. It's a big part of what we sell and fabricate with.
OP, if you want to go with the slat table design and like the hard edge and the better dimensional tolerances available from cold rolled steel, it is usually slightly more expensive depending on your location than the hot rolled but it makes a fine slat table...and no mill scale!

I will spot you the storefront . The radius on it is almost non existent. That is a purpose built extrusion. It will not work well for a steel table.

Cold roll flat is an unnecessary expense for a steel welding table. Mill scale is not an issue and is minimal on HR plate. The slots and dimensional accuracy as small an improvement as you are talking about provide no advantage for a fab table. This isn't for a machine shop.

The OP needs plain old reliable structural steel at its cheapest most versatile best. Titanium, copper, carbon fiber, certified sources, expensive processing, and high accuracy dimensions need not apply.

 

[mike13u]

Yeah I priced it out; Metal Supermarkets has a store near me that I've been going to. Their price on cold rolled though is nearly double that of hot rolled (roughly $340 vs $175). From what I've read, most people just use hot rolled A36. Is the cold rolled that much flatter overall? I've never dealt with any of the materials I'm looking at for a new welding top first hand and as such have no real idea of flat etc. they truly are. I don't need perfectly flat, but my current top made of table saw tops is pretty flat as they were ground during manufacturing...

Lelandwelds, you made it sound like it likely won't matter as long as the support structure under is sufficiently flat/stable. My concern with a solid plate top is the weight, I just can't physically & safely move around a piece of steel that heavy (if I went 3/8"+ ).

My thought on using the slat design is that I could effectively get a thicker top because each individual piece will be within a weight that I can move on my own. This brought up the concern though as to whether or not the flat bars would be "flat" enough... This may be a silly question, but are those kind of dimensional tolerances generally published and standardized?

You absolutely DON'T need it. You don't really need anything fancy for a welding table, including slats or holes. You asked so I wanted to explain on the corner sharpness and the material differences you will find out there.

 

[Lelandwelds]

most people just use hot rolled A36.
Lelandwelds, you made it sound like it likely won't matter as long as the support structure under is sufficiently flat/stable. My concern with a solid plate top is the weight, I just can't physically & safely move around a piece of steel that heavy (if I went 3/8"+ ).

My thought on using the slat design is that I could effectively get a thicker top because each individual piece will be within a weight that I can move on my own. This brought up the concern though as to whether or not the flat bars would be "flat" enough... This may be a silly question, but are those kind of dimensional tolerances generally published and standardized?

Are you a machinist by training? Cast iron does not move more than 1 or 2 %. Above that it breaks.

We are talking tiny, tiny differences in accuracy between HR and CR. Adding a skirt and legs, placing a weight on top, or clamping your top will make greater, meaningless transient dimensional changes greater than the difference between hot and cold roll. Forget it.

There are cast platens and engineering mock up tables out there. They are not often used for welding. Slat on edge tables are great for plasma or oxyfuel cutting.. Any version of hole or slot on a welding table catches everything and swallows Small parts. Pain in the ***. You now need special tooling and there is never enough.

Welders like 11R visegrips, pony clamps, f clamps, c clamps, etc.

 

[FallibleFlyer]

Are you a machinist by training? Cast iron does not move more than 1 or 2 %. Above that it breaks.

We are talking tiny, tiny differences in accuracy between HR and CR. Adding a skirt and legs, placing a weight on top, or clamping your top will make greater, meaningless transient dimensional changes greater than the difference between hot and cold roll. Forget it.

There are cast platens and engineering mock up tables out there. They are not often used for welding. Slat on edge tables are great for plasma or oxyfuel cutting.. Any version of hole or slot on a welding table catches everything and swallows Small parts. Pain in the ***. You now need special tooling and there is never enough.

Welders like 11R visegrips, pony clamps, f clamps, c clamps, etc.

I believe you gave me the answer I needed, I'm clearly just overthinking it. Going to go and dig through the drops at the warehouse and see what's cheap and fits. I appreciate the help

 

[Lelandwelds]

Every welding shop is different like every restaurant or every body shop is different. A doughnut house will not make bagels even though they have a similar shape. An all you can eat fried catfish place will never make quality sashimi. An insurance claim shop will not produce show quality classic Ferraris. A heavy equipment repair depot will not do much fine leather work or wood veneer dash panels.

Your bandsaw would kill me. It is too low and requires too many steps from metal storage to parts cut. A production shop would have the saw at the end of the storage rack. An overhead door would be at the other end of the rack to reload with new steel. I kept all my clamps for use at the table in that spot.

Are you a rock crawler? Build custom knives? Copy period correct iron fences? Reproduce missing parts from antiques? Build CNC key cutters or sign routers? Body man? Robotics? Light gas guns? Crank out custom widgets by the thousand?

Every welder has different interests, tools and methods.

 

[BD1]

Post your location, you may find a member next door to help. It may provide suppliers near you.
Check out the Weldingweb site. Many ideas and great members too.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?377311-Welding-table-picture-thread

 

[FallibleFlyer]

Post your location, you may find a member next door to help. It may provide suppliers near you.
Check out the Weldingweb site. Many ideas and great members too.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?377311-Welding-table-picture-thread

Done

 

[kazlx]

I would just buy a chunk of plate and plunk it down on there for now. Everyone has different preferences and requirements, but unless you really know or care about what you want or need, a decent size, relatively flat surface works great.

I like tooling and would never weld anything to my table, but I also have a shop full of machine tools to make whatever I need. Different strokes for different folks. I can imagine your current cast iron beds work fine, but clamping would be a pain with ribs along the bottom. That reason alone would make me want to get a flat piece of plate. Figure the rest out as you go.

 

[ttpete]

I made my own small TIG table using an old cast iron base from what I think might have been a large grinder. I cut a piece of 6061 1/2" plate 36"X36" and bolted it on from underneath into tapped holes in the plate and bolted a small vise in one corner. It is very handy for smaller items and I can sit on a stool and work.

 

[FallibleFlyer]

I made a decision.

They had no drops on hand for a piece of plate roughly 2'x3', but after toying with the weight of them I decided on a compromise. Ended up using three 0.5x12x27" pieces of flat bar. Will give me a mostly solid top but with a good amount of area to clamp to. After mounting I should end up with 1.5" overhang all around and a 1" gap between the frame and top for clamp clearance.



Thanks all for the help! Feel free to continue discussing

 

[kazlx]

That will work fine.

 

[gayler]

I made a decision.

They had no drops on hand for a piece of plate roughly 2'x3', but after toying with the weight of them I decided on a compromise. Ended up using three 0.5x12x27" pieces of flat bar. Will give me a mostly solid top but with a good amount of area to clamp to. After mounting I should end up with 1.5" overhang all around and a 1" gap between the frame and top for clamp clearance.



Thanks all for the help! Feel free to continue discussing

How about welding small tabs to the bottom side of the 12x27 pieces to keep them from moving for and aft, but let them slide side to side. You could have a solid top when needed, but can slide them to the side to put a clamp on something when needed?

 

[Will S.]

Excellent idea.

 

[FallibleFlyer]

How about welding small tabs to the bottom side of the 12x27 pieces to keep them from moving for and aft, but let them slide side to side. You could have a solid top when needed, but can slide them to the side to put a clamp on something when needed?

Actually that is a really good idea, I wish you had posted prior haha. I already mounted the top, though I'm still debating turning the drilled holes into slots. That said, it currently feels nice and secure and I was able pull the plates perfectly flat.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Any solid table is better than none. Better than wood. Better than fabbing on the floor.

I was talking to a welding buddy about this exact post. He didn't skip a beat. He said, " It's because you like them damn little tables". ( mine were 2' X 4' i had three. I juggled them all over with a pallet jack.)

He claimed if I had 4 X 8 ft or "A decent size." I would want some t slots or something. I mentioned the **** falling through the gap. He said " That's what pockets are for."

I guess my tables have a "virtual slot" that can disappear or be measured in feet. I clamp all around the table edge and move tables to where needed.

Same difference.

 

[Lelandwelds]

The only addition I would make is some sort of backbone. 1/4 X 2 flat in a squared off hoop welded to the underside. 1/4 X 3 flat on edge with some "sunrays" branching off. Maybe contine the adjustable screws across the center of each plate.

Something.

 

[steel 35]

Your table and slide came out very nice!