Why so much waste during garage build?

[Jack_Toepfer]

I’ve been cleaning up the job site for my garage build. Told the guys don’t throw anything out because I saw a lot of wood sitting around.

They aren’t done, but I’m seeing a couple grand worth the lumber still untouched and wondering what they are going to build with it.

Anyway, in the scrap pile I stumbled into (56) 4’ long 2x6s. I can’t inagine a world where buying 4’ more per stud just to cut it off makes any sense. I am under the impression that the lumber yard helped with the order by using the plans to determine what was needed... I paid $10k cash for the lumber... it’s an 18x40. 10’ ceiling first floor and 8’ ceiling second floor.

Why did I buy studs that were 4’ too long and then pay guys to cut them? Anyone have any ideas?

I’ll ask the builder when he returns, they should be siding next week.

Thanks in advance.

 

[matt_i]

Dunno but I saved every piece that was good enough to make something else out of.

Is it exactly 48" (or more) or did they have have to cut a 47" piece to get another dimension?

 

[dave_dj1]

Occasionally the lumber yard will substitute longer lengths if they are out of a certain size. I've never seen them substitute 4' longer but 2' longer quite often. Part of the problem as I see it is the "builder" has no stake in the material so it doesn't concern him if he wastes it. I do not like to work for people that want to supply their own material. I am in business just as your local garage is, do you bring them your oil and grease and have them install it for you? Or better yet do you bring your own food to a restaurant and have them cook it for you? A reputable company has to make a profit to stay in business.

 

[DFB]

If they are not done building I guess you will have to wait and see. No builder worth his salt would purposely waste that much lumber. Is your upstairs a loft and are they future kneewall framing?

 

[ard]

"a couple of grand"??

56 four foot 2x6s is $250

Where's the other 1750?




All you can do is stack it, save it, use it...like an Indian with the buffalo...knee walls, bracing, fire blocking, nailers for trim, E box supports, firewood, kindling....

tooth picks in the end.

 

[PassnThru]

I've noticed that lumber tends to twist closer to the end. It's easier to get a bunch of 10 foot straight pieces out of 14 foot lumber than 10 or 12 foot lumber. Not saying that's the case here but something to think about. It's tough to get straight 10 foot lumber no matter where you get it anymore. Are you happy with the framing so far?

 

[The Cobbler]

I had exact opposite experience with my build. I hired framers that(legitimately )were between jobs so they gave me a deal,. I supplied all the lumber, they supplied nails, and labour. They were very cautious of waste, infact they came to me and said,"if we use these cut-offs on the gable overhangs we can save lumber, but they're 3/4" shorter than your print calls for. Anyway, in the end there was very little waste. I was impressed being that I was supplying the material

 

[mr48chev]

I'd say part of it is that when they are build something they reach for a new board out of the stack all too often rather than stack the cut off's and use them up. That is a habit a lot of construction and fabricators have.

I'd do as the others suggested. sort the boards out and neatly stack them. Maybe sort them by length and make if it were me I'd have the 2 ft and under stuff in it's own pile as those make nice spacing blocks to block up a project at times.

Even if they don't use some of the shorter stuff but they might if it is sorted and stacked where it is easy to pull out of the stack next to the stacks of longer stuff that is the framework for your work benches and other things you will be building.

I'm sitting here right now weighing the cost of one style of building against the cost of another. Mine is going to be country boy simple and look like a rebuilt version of the old shed my grandfather had in the same spot I'll say one thing there won't be much waste material in a pile next to that one when I am done.

 

[Musicinabottle]

On my jobs, anything less than block length 22 1/2 or 14 1/2 if 16 inch centers, makes it to the burn pile, nothing larger.

 

[850xpeps]

On my jobs, anything less than block length 22 1/2 or 14 1/2 if 16 inch centers, makes it to the burn pile, nothing larger.

X2 we try use all we can. Usual very little waste.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

"a couple of grand"??

56 four foot 2x6s is $250
Where's the other 1750?

All you can do is stack it, save it, use it...like an Indian with the buffalo...knee walls, bracing, fire blocking, nailers for trim, E box supports, firewood, kindling....
tooth picks in the end.

I’ll try to answer a few, but wanted to address this one specifically.
There is a mountain of UNTOUCHED lumber on the floor of the garage. I’ve attached pics. 20’ 2x10s, probably 100 10’ 2x6s, 2x8s everywhere.

Unfortunately these pics are pretty old, and don’t show everything but I think you get the point. One is some of the scrap and one is some of the untouched stuff. Both piles have grown since then because there are piles of wood not captured in these that went to one or the other.

I didn’t bring my lumber to the party, I’m doing draws like construction loans would typically do, only I am giving them cash.

The upstairs is done. I don’t have stairs yet, but I believe they bought stairs.
I used to frame, built houses in high school... we didn’t throw this stuff out.
Time is money, I get it, but it takes just as long to cut an inch as it does a foot (or 4).

BTW - Under that blue tarp in the garbage pile... 18 brand new 2x6s.

I’ll build a shed out of the scraps, try to sell whatever is left. I’ll talk to them Monday. I already stacked everything in the back yard, that’s when I decided to count them... rough count on the studs is 50-60... so looked like they bought the wrong size - OR - as mentioned previously, the yard didn’t have the size they needed and substituted.

And actually, I’m pretty sure I have the lumber quote, so I’ll take a look for it.

Love the garage... and it’ll all work out in the end.

 

[garage guy1of38]

18x40 building and $10k for lumber needed? That seems steep.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

18x40 building and $10k for lumber needed? That seems steep.

May have been all “materials” except for the concrete.

Shingles, siding, nails, steel, windows and doors, etc...

 

[Oldbear]

I save everything. Even the bracing from the block and the scrap wood that my tin was attached to. Small pieces that can't be made into something will get used for firewood. I'll make display shelves and such out of the bits.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

I have 2 boys, 3&5. We have plenty of projects to put it to use.

 

[Gerry347]

BTW - Under that blue tarp in the garbage pile... 18 brand new 2x6s.

Any chance those are bad ones that aren't worth using?? When I was framing houses for my Dad (he was the builder) we always had a fairly large pile of garbage wood that we wouldn't use due to the condition of he wood but he sent it all back to the lumber yard for credit.

The other cut wood could be a number of reasons that's already mentioned.

 

[n20junkie]

On my 30x50 I ended up cutting up maybe $300 in lumber, and thats only because I am extremely picky about the wood I use.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Any chance those are bad ones that aren't worth using?? When I was framing houses for my Dad (he was the builder) we always had a fairly large pile of garbage wood that we wouldn't use due to the condition of he wood but he sent it all back to the lumber yard for credit.

The other cut wood could be a number of reasons that's already mentioned.

Looked great to me when I stacked it up.

On my 30x50 I ended up cutting up maybe $300 in lumber, and thats only because I am extremely picky about the wood I use.

n2ojunkie - haven’t seen your name in about 10 years... and I run into you here? I was in the car scene (UBRF,NYSPEED) about that long ago. Hope you’re doing well man.

 

[Justanoldguy]

I just had a 20'x 30' shed given to me.
One person receives for little.
One person pays more for same.
Swings and roundabouts. lol.

 

[ezover]

could be the builder plans on taking any left overs on your dime? so he over bought?

 

[redneckcharlie]

Sound reasonable to u? Leave everything stacked for the homeowner to see and count to steal it later. What a jackxxx post.

could be the builder plans on taking any left overs on your dime? so he over bought?

 

[Big Bad Dad]

I have seen BOTH side of this. I was working sheet metal on a job where the Carpenters must have been paid by the board or something. They would pick up an 8ft 2x4 and cut out a 2 or 3 ft section. Drop the rest in a pile. Come back in a few mins and pick up another 8 footer and do the same. Many times over!
Now, when I was running my own business, I took on building a 24x36 foot garage. I am very tight and conservative with my materials. And this garage was a contract job where I furnished all materials. The owner was getting a turn key shell. (Exterior to roof finished, no drywall or trades work inside) Anyway, this guy became a bit of a ****, and had the idea that all leftover materials and scraps were his property. I explained to him that leftover lumber was mine, but he could keep all scraps and cut offs. Became a bit of a challenge after that.. When the job was done, I probably loaded 40 or 50 bucks of unused lumber into my pickup. Gladly left him ALL of the job scraps piled neatly into his wheelbarrow. Nothing over 12" long... LOL

 

[coljar]

I can't answer your question, but I have found that every piece of lumber I save from one project will be 1" to 3" too short for the next project.

 

[James-W]

I can't answer your question, but I have found that every piece of lumber I save from one project will be 1" to 3" too short for the next project.

Unfortunately, that does seem to be the way it works out.

 

[TommyK]

Who did the material take off? That is the party you have a ***** with.

 

[Viper98912]

Of course, because you're the one paying.

For one of the GC's I've heard of around here, he has his engineers plan out exactly how many of everything is needed - for example, for plumbing, you need X number of 1/2" elbows, etc. He only pays for that exact material; if you're the plumber and you mess up and need another one, it's on the plumbers dime.

 

[ncboat]

Part of it is in the planning and communication. With my original plan I had 10ft studs that would have to be cut. The contractor looked at it and said change the curb wall to 4" and we can use 105's with zero cuts. I am suppling all the materials including nails and so far my waste has been removed in 2 city trash barrels. I did overestimate my 1/2 " sheathing but will return a portion of it. I am as another mentioned purchasing additional as needed so just in time delivery. Contractor is labor only and is fantastic, cant give him enough kudo's.

 

[MushCreek]

I had a heck of a time with the framers that built my barn. I bought all of the lumber (2X6's), and carefully stacked it in separate piles by length. I carefully explained this to the crew boss. I then stood there and watched a guy grab a 16' off of the labeled 16' pile, and cut it down to make a 10', even though there was a pile of 10 footers RIGHT THERE. In some places, they stacked up all sorts of studs- sometime three put together. I have no idea why. The contractor said they usually figure 20% over for waste. 20%?!? Sorry, I work more efficiently than that. They built a tall, unsupported wall out of 2X6's, ignoring the pile of 2X8's that the drawings clearly specified. After I showed them this, they scabbed the 2X8's on to the existing 2X6's. Lots more waste, and a wall that's gonna be harder to insulate properly. Anyone know of a source for 14" batts?

I had the barn framed because it was too big for me to do. I built the house myself, and ran into no such problems.

 

[CraigStu]

Seems to me some of these contractors like to end up w/ wood for themselves. AT least mine did. It wasn't as bad as the OP but still. To me, I paid for all the lumber so I should get to keep any of the leftover that I want. To him, I paid $X for a building, and he provided that building. So he wanted the left overs. Won't be using him again.

 

[GRivera]

When Shirk built my 30x40 12' foot ceiling pole barn, there were about (6) 12' 2x4s; (1) 12' 2x6; and various scraps of wood and metal left over - and about 6 rolls of pneumatic galvanized nails.

The pole barn materials package was spot on! I kept all the usable lumber scraps and took the rest to the land fill.

 

[bczygan]

Crappy lumber and crappy carpenters.

I know a guy who built a garage out of the dumpsters on one sub.

Bill

 

[Tejay]

Unreal - sounds like a don’t give a **** attitude.They need to feel some financial pain. The only scrap left when they are done should be pieces under 14 1/2”
Perhaps a few full length boards also.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... Most lumber yards will take the unused excess if ya return it, for a credit,....

On my jobs, anything less than block length 22 1/2 or 14 1/2 if 16 inch centers, makes it to the burn pile, nothing larger.

That's the difference 'tween a Framer, 'n somebody that can swing a hammer,....

 

[Will Allen]

I’ll try to answer a few, but wanted to address this one specifically.
There is a mountain of UNTOUCHED lumber on the floor of the garage. I’ve attached pics. 20’ 2x10s, probably 100 10’ 2x6s, 2x8s everywhere.


I didn’t bring my lumber to the party, I’m doing draws like construction loans would typically do, only I am giving them cash.

.

A. Maybe the lumber estimator didn't know what he was doing. Scratch that, the estimator definitely had no clue.

B. Why are you paying them cash?
I have been in business for 37 years. No legitimate business runs on cash.

 

[ezover]

Sound reasonable to u? Leave everything stacked for the homeowner to see and count to steal it later. What a jackxxx post.

it was just a thought, and yes people are that stupid or bold depending on how you look at it. unlike you I will refrain from the derogatory comments.

it would seem post #29 had the exact issue I commented on.

 

[77Birdman]

Best answer, because the framer/builder didn't buy it. I am a contractor and typically I include materials in the cost. I figure things very tight. I would rather go back and get another 10 boards than have 20 extra. I am just finishing up my own 24 x 24 garage and you can fit the scrap in a wheel barrow.
We did a job 20+ years ago for a homeowner who was a major PIA. He supplied all of the lumber. His FIL would stop by once a week and holler at us for using crooked wood. The lumber was typical of any job though. It got to a point that if it wasn't straight we threw it in a pile. Probably not the right thing to do but we were young and full of piss and vinegar. The scrap pile ended up being bigger than the good pile.

 

[CJM8515]

An efficient carpenter will not have much if any real scrap. I can still recall the story my parents told me of the old world german builder they hired to build their home. My dad took the plans to the lumber yard and of course it spit out what was needed. The builder took the printout of the materials and ripped it up and told my dad to let him order. There was not a real scrap left when he was done, literally nothing more than a foot or so long and all the scraps fit into a pile 4x4x4 ft..

 

[MagKarl]

Laziness, it's their time and your money. No incentive not to be wasteful.

 

[kwb]

Look at it this way - in all reality he is billing you at something >$1/minute even on a fixed bid. If his crew of a few guys over the course of a day can save an hour or more every day and waste a bit more of materials than the guy that planned it out to the T it may very well be the lower cost option.

This is a case of materials are cheap and labor is expensive - which would you rather waste?

That trip to go get 10 more boards is at least $100 hit plus costs of materials that you needed anyway if the lumber yard is more than across the street.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I've seen both sides...

Some people play very conservative with very little waste. Might take a little longer making sure your boards are all straight and good.

Others get lots of extra material, work as fast as they can without care for waste. Lumber yard takes back what hasn't been cut, rest of the pile goes in the dumpsters...

It's not just wood either, they will drop full strips of nails and not bother picking up. Constantly swap out saw blades, seriously I have some the paint hasn't even worn off around the teeth yet that they tossed. Sheetrock screws & nails everywhere... It's all about speed, speed, speed...

On the new homes they build around here, not only do they order a LOT of excess material, there is also a TON of waste. One issue I've seen is there tends to be a lot of (unused) boards with a rough edge. Framers won't use them and lumber yard doesn't want to take them back, so they go in the dumpster (and then I take them, lol).

Framing walls they tend to use proper length studs so they are able to slap them together pretty quick. Cutting headers for above windows & doors and all the other little framing bits for rough-ins also usually results in little waste.

The big waste part is when they do the roof line. They aren't pre-fabbed trusses like I hear about so much up north. They can end up with anywhere from 1' - 6' in excess for each board. And if they screw up the cut, that board goes to the side, no attempt is made to try and re-use it for another area where it might be able to be cut shorter.

Same thing with OSB for the walls & roof... Smallest cut out of a corner and they don't bother re-using it even if the needed another small piece. I was able to get so much OSB one time it was crazy, decked my attic above the garage with all their leftover and still had lots extra... lol.