There was the story a while ago of the Husky/Matco double stamped socket. I've heard rumors online of various cheaper brands such as HF, Husky, Tekton, Carlyle, Gearwrench, Dewalt hand tools, Kobalt, etc all basically coming from the same factories, and being the same tools just with with different stampings. Does anyone know the real truth on this? I've read so many forum posts and reviews stating "x brand comes from the same factory as x" but no one seems to really know for sure.
Import Brands Rebranding from Factory?
- Thread starter drbimbu
- Start date
wafrederick
Well-known member
The Channellock V groove combination wrenches with anti slip and the Napa Carlyle wrenches are another example of this.Both made by the same manufacturer,Infar.Look the same and same length with a few differences.Differances are what is stamped on them and price.The Channellock is cheaper,paid $24.99 for the metric minus the 16mm and 8mm at my local HWI Do It Best Hardware store.Had to buy the 16mm and 8mm separately.Napa Carlyle,$120.00 to $130.00 with no skips.
1foxracing
Well-known member
The Extra long spline drive flex-head wrenches branded as EZ-Red, Mountain, Platinum Tech, Carlyle, Matco and anyone else are manufactured by Kabo. The Carlyle & Matco are 90T verses 72T for all the others.
a52-830
Well-known member
just because they are from the same factory does not mean they are made to the same standards.
it does not also mean that they all have the same guarantee.
take those spline flex wrenches. as i recall, the reviews are all over the map for the different brands, which implies that they are not all the same.
it does not also mean that they all have the same guarantee.
take those spline flex wrenches. as i recall, the reviews are all over the map for the different brands, which implies that they are not all the same.
Parrothead
Well-known member
This! ^^^
Though in the case of the Channellock vs. Carlyle, neither are truck brands.
BDT/NWMN
Well-known member
If these two lines are made under contract in an Asian Factory; Can either one be claimed as a rebrand of the other?? Unless the two lines have a contract agreement to use a specific design being copied, wouldn't that violate patent laws?? Are the patents on that design expired? Are the Asians just doing what they often do well, and just make whatever they want for whoever will buy it? Asian Rebranded as ChannelLock and Asian Rebranded as Carlyle may be more appropriate titles? Are both lines manufactured to the same standards?
Answers to these questions can be a mixture of fact, fiction, opinions, and beliefs.
It is definitely an interesting topic.
Answers to these questions can be a mixture of fact, fiction, opinions, and beliefs.
It is definitely an interesting topic.
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A bit off topic since this post is about import tools, but in semi related news,
Most of us know that Mac/Proto are sister companies.. But Ive seen Mac socket sets that had some sockets stamped as proto by accident. I dont know if they pick out of bins that sometimes get a stowaway tool.. or what.
I also have a 13mm Mac wrench that was put in the stamping machine on the wrong side, so it has the stampings of both sides, ON both sides
Most of us know that Mac/Proto are sister companies.. But Ive seen Mac socket sets that had some sockets stamped as proto by accident. I dont know if they pick out of bins that sometimes get a stowaway tool.. or what.
I also have a 13mm Mac wrench that was put in the stamping machine on the wrong side, so it has the stampings of both sides, ON both sides
Aaron_W
Well-known member
This is a good point. Not simply different material specs, but also quality control differences. Brand A and Brand B may sell essentially the same identical wrench, but Brand A may reject tools for flaws that Brand B would accept.
Brand C may sell the rejects from both Brand A and B with the branding ground off and re-stamped with Brand C's name.
Having some experience with the Chinese contract mfg business from fishing tackle, there are a few points worth adding to this thread:
The employee turnover in Chinese factories is incredible. It's not uncommon for workers to be seasonal, save up their money and then take it home to their families when planting time comes, etc. For every production run of a product, there could be a large percentage of the workers for whom this is their first time working on that particular product. That includes managers and QC people. For any product that requires hand work (other than mere assembling), this can turn into a nightmare real fast, a nightmare for which there is no permanent solution. You get your shipment in and the first hing you do is inspect it to find out what they screwed up this time. It's a moving target. What one crew got right this time, the next crew will screw that up on the next run.
Next is the company that is contracting with the Chinese mfr. Often they'll tell the mfr "we need this made for so-and-so price and no more." The Chinese mfr will figure out how to get the product out for that price no matter what they have to skimp on. A company willing to pay more gets less skimping on their item, even if the overall design is the same.
Think they can't make good stuff? Don't they make planes, ships, spacecraft, mining equipment, etc?? And quality tools to turn all those nuts, bolts and screws? "We can make this, but crazy American round-eyes want that **** instead."
Plus they're not stupid either. Some US companies are more lax with incompetent quality control people or lacking proper checks and balances to make sure they're doing their jobs. The Chinese mfr quickly learns who will accept **** more readily. I suspect Sears has this problem in their corporate structure.
Typically, there are only a handful of Chinese mfrs at work in each kind of product category. It's not uncommon as an example for every Chinese computer flat screen monitor in the world to be all made by two or three companies regardless to the brand name. So the similarities you see in different brand name tools that are coming from China is no co-incidence. They are most likely being made in the same factories.
Sometimes the mfrs will be the ones to sell the US company on a particular design. "We make this part for Company A. Do you like it? We can put that same part in your product too." It's far more common for a US company to say to the China mfr "We need a ratchet of this approximate style at this price" and the mfr actually designs the product rather than the US company actually designing and engineering it and then putting it out on bid. The US company only knows what the Chinese came up with after they receive the first samples for approval. This is also how a lot of these products come out looking the same.
Which is another problem. The Chinese will go through a production run and hand-pick the best examples off the line to send the US company for approval. The US company approves the seeded examples, and then they get shipped all the ****. It's true.
And they know they have you by the nuts because no one will make it cheaper and there's only a couple options for you're product over there. Get it made by tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee. Same difference.
Oftentimes a mfr of supplies for the main mfr (the glass panels for monitors or the circuitry for computer motherboards) are family members. Even competing factories for a given product category can be family members to one another too.
What makes it hard sometimes to understand what's going on with these factories is that the mfr business in China is so very different in their thinking and philosophy than that in the USA.
Stupid round-eyes.
The employee turnover in Chinese factories is incredible. It's not uncommon for workers to be seasonal, save up their money and then take it home to their families when planting time comes, etc. For every production run of a product, there could be a large percentage of the workers for whom this is their first time working on that particular product. That includes managers and QC people. For any product that requires hand work (other than mere assembling), this can turn into a nightmare real fast, a nightmare for which there is no permanent solution. You get your shipment in and the first hing you do is inspect it to find out what they screwed up this time. It's a moving target. What one crew got right this time, the next crew will screw that up on the next run.
Next is the company that is contracting with the Chinese mfr. Often they'll tell the mfr "we need this made for so-and-so price and no more." The Chinese mfr will figure out how to get the product out for that price no matter what they have to skimp on. A company willing to pay more gets less skimping on their item, even if the overall design is the same.
Think they can't make good stuff? Don't they make planes, ships, spacecraft, mining equipment, etc?? And quality tools to turn all those nuts, bolts and screws? "We can make this, but crazy American round-eyes want that **** instead."
Plus they're not stupid either. Some US companies are more lax with incompetent quality control people or lacking proper checks and balances to make sure they're doing their jobs. The Chinese mfr quickly learns who will accept **** more readily. I suspect Sears has this problem in their corporate structure.
Typically, there are only a handful of Chinese mfrs at work in each kind of product category. It's not uncommon as an example for every Chinese computer flat screen monitor in the world to be all made by two or three companies regardless to the brand name. So the similarities you see in different brand name tools that are coming from China is no co-incidence. They are most likely being made in the same factories.
Sometimes the mfrs will be the ones to sell the US company on a particular design. "We make this part for Company A. Do you like it? We can put that same part in your product too." It's far more common for a US company to say to the China mfr "We need a ratchet of this approximate style at this price" and the mfr actually designs the product rather than the US company actually designing and engineering it and then putting it out on bid. The US company only knows what the Chinese came up with after they receive the first samples for approval. This is also how a lot of these products come out looking the same.
Which is another problem. The Chinese will go through a production run and hand-pick the best examples off the line to send the US company for approval. The US company approves the seeded examples, and then they get shipped all the ****. It's true.
And they know they have you by the nuts because no one will make it cheaper and there's only a couple options for you're product over there. Get it made by tweedle-dum or tweedle-dee. Same difference.
Oftentimes a mfr of supplies for the main mfr (the glass panels for monitors or the circuitry for computer motherboards) are family members. Even competing factories for a given product category can be family members to one another too.
What makes it hard sometimes to understand what's going on with these factories is that the mfr business in China is so very different in their thinking and philosophy than that in the USA.
Stupid round-eyes.
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jdoe213
Well-known member
I agree with the first two lines. But the third line is just people's opinion.
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
More reason to buy tools based on the merits of the individual tool vs the brand stamped on it.
shockwave
Well-known member
I do know matco currently has 2 lines of sockets there adv cheaper line and hard line
A lot of these come from same factories like sunex and gearwrench as gearwrench has been mirroring matco hardline for years since they made there hardline when apex switched all there lines to gearwrench from kd
Just like craftsman apex made the sockets but nowhere near the same as gearwrench or matco this is where qc comes into play
A lot of these come from same factories like sunex and gearwrench as gearwrench has been mirroring matco hardline for years since they made there hardline when apex switched all there lines to gearwrench from kd
Just like craftsman apex made the sockets but nowhere near the same as gearwrench or matco this is where qc comes into play
sberry
Banned
some different, some the same and picked off the line for a brand stamp.
More all the time, it costs too much to make changes to save 50 cents when 50$ can be made with a label. Secondly, not only changes but tracking it all and vendors don't want to be a warranty center. Its well worth 50 cents or a dollar to Walmart to get a 1/2 socket set backed by Stanley and not have it coming back in the store 20 minutes later with a busted socket and more than likely never a return on it.
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HandsomeDan
Well-known member
You can look at almost all ratchet sets now and determine that they’re the same. They’re all teardrop head with the same handle.
I was also recently looking at the craftsman mitre saws, and they’re the exact same as the mitre saws sold at harbor freight.
I was also recently looking at the craftsman mitre saws, and they’re the exact same as the mitre saws sold at harbor freight.
WhiffySpark
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 6,252
I’ve heard this a few times but sunex is nothing like adv IMO. I have both.
I prefer the ADV sockets. They’re decent for the money.
I hate the stupid taper on sunex
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
Oh man, brother, don't ya know it. Our people went thru this so much on a -very- high profile bridge project we finally sent a representative to China to be the full time on site inspector... he had the authority to reject components on site before they shipped here. Yeah, it cost us a metric, um, "boat" load to do it, but when you're talking huge multi-million dollar bridge components, and they're shipping them back and forth because they send you unusable trash, and when you send that one back they send you different unusable trash... Or they send you their very best cherry picked bolts, and the ones in the lot going direct to the job site are "best quality" threadless variable-surfaced Structural semi-steel bolts...
Ain't it wonderful?
This.
This is when they should've approved the higher bid of the USA or Canadian supplier. "Cheap" is usually very very expensive.
Yep, you've got it. And they know exactly what they're doing, but they'll play dumb. Just like some non-native folks here who'll pretend they don't understand English to play stupid. And they know exactly how to sound so sorry and so apologetic and so promising that they know the problem and it won't happen again. And yet they continue to ship the same **** over and over. They know EXACTLY what they're doing. You want to choke them.
So the only way is to actually send your own QC main over there with that authority. Then it will get done right. They don't have what we consider a work ethic. They only know what they need to do to get paid, and nothing more (kind of like some of our OWN workers, eh?). But they DO understand authority and punishment. They wouldn't dare pull this stuff with their own government--they know they'd disappear and never be heard from again. This they understand. But as long as no one's holding a gun to their heads, they're going to act so caring and apologetic to your face while they're stabbing you in the back.
Stupid round-eyes.
a52-830
Well-known member
as you bash china, remember that Apple makes (almost) all their products there. as dadstools noted, you get what you demand and pay for.
fanders
Well-known member
I read a good book about Chinese contract manufacturing recently - Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler, link here
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0470928077/?tag=atomicindustr-21
Echoes a lot of what Dads Tools was saying.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0470928077/?tag=atomicindustr-21
Echoes a lot of what Dads Tools was saying.
I just figured out from watching a youtube video that Eagle Tool manufacturers Crescents hand tools. Around 45s in they start showing the tools before they get their cardboard packaging. Shortly after they show a set being boxed up for shipping and it's clear that it's Crescent not only by the color of the package, but by the "C's" located in the lower and upper corners of the box. I couldn't quite make out Crescent on the packaging, but you might be able to if you log in and slow the video down.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ihyAMz5BNYw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
An image of a similar Crescent package for comparison. http://artsrepublik.com/img/crescen...december-featured-items_crescent-tool-set.jpg
Just looking at those Crescent tools, the ratchets appear to be a dead ringer for the ratchets in my Allied Pro Grade set from the early 00's.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ihyAMz5BNYw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
An image of a similar Crescent package for comparison. http://artsrepublik.com/img/crescen...december-featured-items_crescent-tool-set.jpg
Just looking at those Crescent tools, the ratchets appear to be a dead ringer for the ratchets in my Allied Pro Grade set from the early 00's.
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