I have a detail question about "glare".

[Lelandwelds]

Should source direction matter?

I want to light the under car area for a car on a lift. I have suggested a few locations and methods:

1. Lift arm mounted on top shining up or bottom mounted shining down to bounce off floor.
2. Bench or wall mounted with barn doors to direct and shield light to bounce off floor under lift.
3. Vehicle mounted to bounce off floor or directly light area. (Doubles as breakdown light!)
4. In floor flush mounted to shine up.

The basic response has been "Will never work. Use a flashlight." I want something mains powered and tied to lift use only.

If the diffuser and distance to the eye is the same, should not a source above or below offer the same perceived glare?

My first choice is several integrated linear LED 10 to 15 watt fixtures mounted in a 2 inch wide pocket in the cement with a thick Lexan cover sanded translucent. I think raising the lift and breaking a hall effect, emitter/detector pair, or micro switch for hands free on and off would be perfect.

http://jamesindustry.com/wap/content/?698.html

 

[ducksface]

I think your plan is odd as to the insistence on power etc, but I can help with the diffuser part.

Use any light you like and buy that odd cling wrap used for the kitchen. Kind of a cling wax paper.
I have used it to diffuse lights on dive equipment and I find nothing better than this stuff. Cheap one layer does it, fits any light, perfect for the diffuser part of your question.

 

[Lelandwelds]

that odd cling wrap used for the kitchen. Kind of a cling wax paper.
I have used it to diffuse lights on dive equipment and I find nothing better than this stuff. Cheap one layer does it, fits any light, perfect for the diffuser part of your question.

My wife loves this stuff. I now have a use for the weird wrap.

 

[ard]

You still at this crazy idea?!?



The 'bouncing' stuff is nuts. You will need 2-3-4x the illumination pointing down to bounce back up- the amount of glare and brightness will be eye-watering.

If you want 'mains powered', then I guess you will be driving around with a long extension cord (Your #3 option) and on every car you own or may own?

I would look at two 'dock lights', mounted on the lift or on the walls adjacent to the lift:

 

[cybrdyke]

Should source direction matter?

Glare is when a light is between you and what you are looking at. Glare is the result of excess light in your field of view. It makes everything that's behind the light difficult to discern. In some people, it can cause physical pain.
So, for the definition of "glare" the direction of the source is into your eyeballs.
Light reflected off the floor or walls wont produce glare unless you have a mirror finish on them.
Honestly, I dont really understand what you're trying to do, but if you're calculating floor reflectance, it's around 50%. It will get worse as you raise the lights when the lift goes up. If you're bouncing light around then consider where your shadow will be.
CD

 

[Lelandwelds]

Glare is when a light is between you and what you are looking at. Glare is the result of excess light in your field of view. It makes everything that's behind the light difficult to discern. In some people, it can cause physical pain.
So, for the definition of "glare" the direction of the source is into your eyeballs.
Light reflected off the floor or walls wont produce glare unless you have a mirror finish on them.
Honestly, I dont really understand what you're trying to do, but if you're calculating floor reflectance, it's around 50%. It will get worse as you raise the lights when the lift goes up. If you're bouncing light around then consider where your shadow will be.
CD

The only lift I have used is so dark that day or night you need a drop light or a flashlight. With my new found love of decent lighting, that will not work. I want some low wattage LEDs set in cement shining straight up on any car up on the lift. I don't want batteries, something that disappears, or anything to knock over.

This is not a popular idea. People say it will fill with grease, shine on the wrong car part, or will not support a car's weight. The most popular doomsday is excessive glare.

The glare prediction puzzles me because the distance from eye to lamp is five or six feet for either floor or ceiling mounted lights. The beam angles are similar. The eye is focused on a task away from the light source. If anything thing, the glare should be less due to the lamps being much less bright.

 

[cybrdyke]

There was a thread here a while back where someone mounted lights in the floor. It looked great and he didn't have any of those problems.
I'm not following you on this eye to lamp distance thing....
CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

Just install something like this in the concrete:

 

[nsula_country]

Just install something like this in the concrete:

+1

Clean and simple. Install 6-8 of them around perimeter of lift area.

CT

 

[ducksface]

There is, from a purely practical standpoint, the fact that those floor lights are filler light at best to even out the sharp edge of a spotlight like a flashlight.

It's an incredible easy test.
Put two flashlights on the floor pointing straight up near a ceiling lamp in your house.
Now try to remove the bulb from the ceiling lamp using only those flashlights as illumination.
See how my suddenly three times wider big **** shadow negates everything useful about those lights.?
Now glance down to get a screwdriver out of your box.
See that flare in your eye that lingers for many minutes?

I did the test. I consequently did not put in the pretty puck lights.

I know 4hats not what you want to hear.
Do the test and report back. Convince us that already know
and I'll happily sway because I really wanted those pucks.

As far as a GJ member being happy with results :
GJ does one hell of a lot of justifications for tasks and purchases.

I know you want that set up I'm not going to discourage further.
Do the test and be a swayer of naysayers.

I hope I proved my support of the unorthodox with my post of the simple and effective diffuser.

 

[ard]

Make a 6x6x8 box, with a 3/8" thick aluminum cover. Put THAT in the concrete.

Then mount a light to that cover. Mill out the holes, whatever.

That way when the light dies and you need to replace it, and that chinese manufacturer stopped making it after 6 months you will not need to jackhammer out the concrete....

 

[66cj225]

White epoxy floor

 

[Platonic Solid]

​

 

[Lelandwelds]

Make a 6x6x8 box, with a 3/8" thick aluminum cover. Put THAT in the concrete.

Then mount a light to that cover. Mill out the holes, whatever.

That way when the light dies and you need to replace it, and that chinese manufacturer stopped making it after 6 months you will not need to jackhammer out the concrete....

I am thinking of several stepped pockets formed from solid foam board or oiled wood measuring 2 X 48 in

?

My first choice is several integrated linear LED 10 to 15 watt fixtures mounted in a 2 inch wide pocket in the cement with a thick Lexan cover sanded translucent. I think raising the lift and breaking a hall effect, emitter/detector pair, or micro switch for hands free on and off would be perfect.

http://jamesindustry.com/wap/content/?698.html

There is, from a purely practical standpoint, the fact that those floor lights are filler light at best to even out the sharp edge of a spotlight like a flashlight.

It's an incredible easy test.
Put two flashlights on the floor pointing straight up near a ceiling lamp in your house.
Now try to remove the bulb from the ceiling lamp using only those flashlights as illumination.
See how my suddenly three times wider big **** shadow negates everything useful about those lights.?
Now glance down to get a screwdriver out of your box.
See that flare in your eye that lingers for many minutes?

I did the test. I consequently did not put in the pretty puck lights.

I know 4hats not what you want to hear.
Do the test and report back. Convince us that already know
and I'll happily sway because I really wanted those pucks.

As far as a GJ member being happy with results :
GJ does one hell of a lot of justifications for tasks and purchases.

I know you want that set up I'm not going to discourage further.
Do the test and be a swayer of naysayers.

I hope I proved my support of the unorthodox with my post of the simple and effective diffuser.

I have started to notice you are partially wrong every time you fire up your keyboard yet I partially agree each time. Weird. Most people fall on one side or the other of those to choices. You are consistently entertaining!

I think part of the problem is we are talking past each other on fixture choice. You are thinking " powerful point source" and I am talking about a 12 watt fixtures one inch wide and 48 inches long with an added diffuser 2" x 48". (12 watts over 96 sq inches)

I have already run "the test" with some 12 watt LED can lights (12 watt over 12 square inches). I have 16ea shining down in my eyes everyday. I can easily stare directly into them without eye strain. Also, I considered making two uplighters from them. (Wife thought mock up was ugly.)

I will do "the test" with the exact light £ choose. Just in case I am partially wrong.

 

[hichamaziz]

I can help you

 

[Platonic Solid]

OT

I can help you

Reminds me of Don Hertzfeldt's short film "World of Tomorrow". . . . I can help.

 

[ducksface]

I seem right and wrong
Because I interject
Instead of command.
If I tell you the definitive
You won't consider, alter, proceed.
You'll negate
Or you'll
Concur.
Either way
Innovation and procession
Will not be due to my help.
I comment to help,
not define.


Very few understand what you see(both in this quest for lighting and in my comments)

 

[ducksface]

I had forgotten to mention this:
I used to have a T8 drop in 4 tube that lived on its own creeper....
A bit of a trip hazard to use on a lift I'd think, but it was great to have there with you if you were on your own creeper.

So your quest is a bit of
Been there
Lost interest
Look! A squirrel!

Type of thing with me.
I'm trying to put an end to the project residing unfinished in my head.

 

[American Locomotive]

I have cheap $15 4' 40 Watt LED plug in fixtures. They're similar to the famous CostCo fixtures, and they have frosted tubes. While I don't have a lift, we use them all the time when working on cars. We can point them sideways under a car or pointing up at the underneath and they work fine with minimal glare.

We also have a giant 400W MH light on a stand, we found that if you point it at the ground at night near a car, enough light bounces up that it's almost like working in the daylight.

 

[ard]

I seem right and wrong
Because I interject
Instead of command.
If I tell you the definitive
You won't consider, alter, proceed.
You'll negate
Or you'll
Concur.
Either way
Innovation and procession
Will not be due to my help.
I comment to help,
not define.


Very few understand what you see(both in this quest for lighting and in my comments)

I guess just a present day Obi-Wan Kanobe....

 

[Lelandwelds]

Re: OT

I can help you

????? Is this some version of that one hand clapping?

Reminds me of Don Hertzfeldt's short film "World of Tomorrow". . . . I can help.

I didn't get the reference so " Google is my friend" . . . and spent four hours of my life completely out of my element. So, . . . thanks?

And, I still haven't even watched the movie.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I seem right and wrong
Because I interject
Instead of command.
If I tell you the definitive
You won't consider, alter, proceed.
You'll negate
Or you'll
Concur.
Either way
Innovation and procession
Will not be due to my help.
I comment to help,
not define.


Very few understand what you see(both in this quest for lighting and in my comments)

I don't recognise the quote (poem? Artsy ****?). Fired up google. And found references to bad pot brownie experiences while watching movies in Colorado. I don't know what to do with that.