Picking a quality LED high/low bay fixture

[norcalpablo]

I'm ready to order lights for a new build. I've had one of the online companies do some layouts, and I've messed around with the software as well. I believe I need eight high bays lights that produce around 22,000 lumens each for a 16' ceiling area, and eight for the 10' ceiling area that provide about 14,000 lumens each. In both cases I would prefer to mount them as flush as possible to preserve room for a rolling gantry crane and other high equipment.

I'm looking for a long term solution. I am not looking for the cheapest price. I want fixtures that are reliable as at my age I'm not thrilled about swapping a failed one down the road. I'm also not very interested in the "florescent conversions". UL approval is nice.

What are the brands to look for? Is there a sweet spot for really good fixtures at something less then a premium price? Your recommendations and experience is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Platonic Solid]

Suggest sticking with linear highbays with diffusers (confirm availability of surface mounting brackets as many don't offer them). Avoid UFO lights as the drivers get baked by the heat of the concentrated LEDs. If you want a step above the lowest priced linear highbays I'd go with Maxlite. Price is a step above also. Lithonia makes the linear highbays also at a premium price, but quality isn't any better than the rebranded Chinese luminaires.

You didn't mention how big the 2 spaces are, so a word of caution - achieving desired fc at workplane with a few high output fixtures in an empty room is easy. Once the space is filled with stuff you may need additional task lighting due to shadows.

For even illumination, typical fixture spacing for a 16ft ceiling should be less than 16' 10". Typical fixture spacing for a 10ft ceiling should be less than 9'4".

 

[cybrdyke]

Avoid UFO lights as the drivers get baked by the heat of the concentrated LEDs.

The latest UFO's have separated the driver enclosure from the light source. There's an sizeable air gap between them, similar to what you see on the better wallpacks. UFO's with this setup are awesome!!

If you want a step above the lowest priced linear highbays I'd go with Maxlite. Price is a step above also. Lithonia makes the linear highbays also at a premium price, but quality isn't any better than the rebranded Chinese luminaires.

I agree that Lithonia IBH or IBG series are no better than any others and usually cost more.
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

...22,000 lumens each for a 16' ceiling area.... ......10' ceiling area that provide about 14,000 lumens each.

That's alot of light for those low ceilings. Have you had a layout done?
CD

 

[norcalpablo]

Sorry, I should have included the dimensions. The area with 16' ceilings is 28' x 48'. It's wired with two rows of lights 14' apart, and each box in the row is 12' apart. The 10' ceiling area is 24' x 44'. It is set up with two rows 12' apart and there is 11' between each box (eight total in each section). At this point, I'm pretty locked into that layout (drywall is complete). The walls will be painted white, the floor bare concrete.

The lower ceiling section is primarily a woodworking area, and the high bay is everything else: welding, car repair, general mechanical stuff. I'm over 60. I'm optimistically hoping for another 15 years of playing in my shop. I want plenty of light. The software I used says I'll get around 90 fc with this arrangement (using the fixtures above).

I really appreciate your responses. I'll need to order fixtures within the next several days. Thank you!

Paul

 

[Platonic Solid]

The latest UFO's have separated the driver enclosure from the light source. There's an sizeable air gap between them, similar to what you see on the better wallpacks. UFO's with this setup are awesome!!

Agreed, some have improved the air gap to protect the driver. You'll still see reduced L70 life due to high concentration of high output LEDs.

 

[Radix2]

I will echo the above recommendation to focus on the panel style LED fixtures since that are less glaring than the others. I would also try to find the largest aperture (size) fixtures to again keep the apparent brightness down since you are pushing it from the standpoint of few/high lumen fixtures in your layout. So for example, if you can get your lumens in both a 2x2 and 2x4 fixture, the 2x4 would be better.

Personally, for your woodworking area, I would strongly consider using some small amount of surface wiring to run two lights from each of your boxes - 16 - 6000 lumen edge lit panels will give you vastly superior lighting to the proposed 8- 10000 lumen lights. Less glare, less shadowing, just a more pleasant place for you to work in. I think you could make it look good too.

 

[norcalpablo]

Thank you for your response! Some great recommendations. This is my second "real" shop, and certainly my last. I can't wait to get moved in and set up. My stuff has been in storage for over a year, and I miss it!

Any other suggestion, please chime in. Thanks again!

Paul

 

[cybrdyke]

I will echo the above recommendation to focus on the panel style LED fixtures since that are less glaring than the others. I would also try to find the largest aperture (size) fixtures to again keep the apparent brightness down since you are pushing it from the standpoint of few/high lumen fixtures in your layout. So for example, if you can get your lumens in both a 2x2 and 2x4 fixture, the 2x4 would be better.

Personally, for your woodworking area, I would strongly consider using some small amount of surface wiring to run two lights from each of your boxes - 16 - 6000 lumen edge lit panels will give you vastly superior lighting to the proposed 8- 10000 lumen lights. Less glare, less shadowing, just a more pleasant place for you to work in. I think you could make it look good too.

16' is too high for edge-lit panels that are designed for grid ceilings at 10'. Also, edge lit panels are generally considered to be super glarey, especially the higher lumen versions. Only a few companies have developed a softer delivery lens system to cut back the glare. None of those are the cheap versions.

CD

 

[joe_padavano]

I got my shop lights from these guys.

 

[Radix2]

16' is too high for edge-lit panels that are designed for grid ceilings at 10'. Also, edge lit panels are generally considered to be super glarey, especially the higher lumen versions. Only a few companies have developed a softer delivery lens system to cut back the glare. None of those are the cheap versions.

CD

The ceiling in his woodworking shop that I am referring to is at 10'...?

 

[Platonic Solid]

I have a couple 2x4 6800lm edge lit James Industry panels installed in the lab drop ceiling at 8.5'. Since the panel of light is right at the ceiling I can see how the glare potential is increased compared to a traditional grid troffer. I don't find glare to be an issue at that mounting height and output. The wider distribution of the flat panel works nicely for my application which is over a workbench.

 

[Radix2]

I have a couple 2x4 6800lm edge lit James Industry panels installed in the lab drop ceiling at 8.5'. Since the panel of light is right at the ceiling I can see how the glare potential is increased compared to a traditional grid troffer. I don't find glare to be an issue at that mounting height and output. The wider distribution of the flat panel works nicely for my application which is over a workbench.

I think the issue with flat panels and glare is due to the fact that the glare metrics are based on the contrast between the light and the background and don't take into consideration the uniformity of the emitted light.

Edge lit panels are about as good as it is possible for uniformity and glare of the fixtures themselves. The glare calculations suffer from the fact that panels put no light on the ceiling at all, giving a high contrast and glare number. The higher the lumens of the fixture, the higher the contrast.

This lack of any up lighting makes the proposed use of widely spaced bright panel style lights a problem. For example, I placed a 4500 lumen surface mount panel in a room to replace a 1600 lumen bulb in an Edison socket. The apparent illumination of the room was far lower - the issue was that the ceiling went from illuminated to dark.

Panel style lights at 8-10 feet need to be spaced closely (as in grid designs) to provide enough ceiling light coverage on their own to overcome this dark celing effect- this also lowers the per fixture lumens to the 6000 or less range.

Hence the recommendation to the OP to take another look at getting more fixtures in there.

The other choice would be to find a fixture style that has decent up lighting to fill in and brighten the ceiling ( reducing glare).

 

[mojoreese]

I'm in the same boat. Picking lights for a 24x44 shop with 17 foot ceiling. I'm going with 8 of these https://www.prolighting.com/commerc...-high-low-bay-high-bays/et-hbl2200050wh1.html two will actually be the 110W versions over a lofted section. Seems like a decent product at a good price point?

 

[cybrdyke]

I think the issue with flat panels and glare is due to the fact that the glare metrics are based on the contrast between the light and the background and don't take into consideration the uniformity of the emitted light.

Edge lit panels are about as good as it is possible for uniformity and glare of the fixtures themselves. The glare calculations suffer from the fact that panels put no light on the ceiling at all, giving a high contrast and glare number. The higher the lumens of the fixture, the higher the contrast.

This lack of any up lighting makes the proposed use of widely spaced bright panel style lights a problem. For example, I placed a 4500 lumen surface mount panel in a room to replace a 1600 lumen bulb in an Edison socket. The apparent illumination of the room was far lower - the issue was that the ceiling went from illuminated to dark.

Panel style lights at 8-10 feet need to be spaced closely (as in grid designs) to provide enough ceiling light coverage on their own to overcome this dark celing effect- this also lowers the per fixture lumens to the 6000 or less range.

Hence the recommendation to the OP to take another look at getting more fixtures in there.

The other choice would be to find a fixture style that has decent up lighting to fill in and brighten the ceiling ( reducing glare).

The issue with flat panels and glare isnt' anything other than having the source of the light angled directly into the field of view. It's not about contrast or uniformity. It also isn't about uplight. There are millions of grid mounted fixtures installed that have zero uplight but dont create glare. You wont see many lighting designers using flat panels for this very reason. They'll use a center basket troffer or some other volumetric type fixture where the light source is recessed above the ceiling plane.
Also, there's never been a problem with dark ceilings using recessed troffers, so flat panels cant be blamed for this either.
It's really very simple. Most edge lit panels are glare bombs.

That being said, there are companies that are working on that problem. Green Creative has found a way to soften the glare from flat panels. Here is a link to their product: http://gc-lighting.com/products/panel-2x4-38w-led-fixture/
They use high tech layering of optical films to reduce the glare.
Hopefully, more companies will follow suit, but I'm not holding my breath. This technology cost money.
CD

 

[SAA44-40]

OP-visit your local electrical supply house and ask for LED industrial high bays. With your ceiling height, you will need 16,000-20,000 lumens, less if you drop them on a chain. You also need to figure out what color temp you’re after. You will mostly have 2 choices, 4000K and 5000K. Both are acceptable,the 5K having more blue. Choose a beam spread. Lens or no lens. Look at the lumens per watt. If there is no L70 rating, run. Shoot for 180LPW or higher. You can order plug and play with a chord, drop chains, dimming- lots of choices. I’d stick with Cooper or Lithonia. These options will run about $225ea

 

[Platonic Solid]

Shoot for 180LPW or higher.

That's currently only achievable with no lens and bare LEDs. Please prove me wrong and post links to 180+LPW $225 high/low bay fixtures.

 

[cybrdyke]

150 to 160 is the norm for commercial highbays. There's only a few in the 180 to 200 range, so shooting for one thats 180+ isnt practical, considering that there's a significant price difference, like $75 each. The additional savings of 25-ish watts would only pay you back if you had extremely long burn hours.
FWIW-the 120 degree diffuser blocks 7%, and the 80 CRI option is another 2%.
CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

There's a grand total of one 180L/W high/low bay fixture on the DLC which is a very new Orion fixture with no lens bare LEDs.

 

[SAA44-40]

GE Albeo ABV3- DLC and 200LPW, can be had at $225. So there is a grand total of more than one.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Yep, and only achievable with NO LENS.

This is really just a gimmick. Yes they’re using the latest technology LEDs and are achieving high L/W numbers by having no lens, but what happens outside of the test lab in real life with the LED phosphor exposed to real life contaminants? There’s no L70 test for that. Every LED spec I’ve ever seen clearly states that the LED phosphor must not be touched. Now expose them to the typical pollutants in a functional garage environment. Just a really dumb idea.

 

[SAA44-40]

Okay dude- I was just trying to help the original poster, not get in a luminaire duel. Take care

 

[Platonic Solid]

I don't think telling him to look for 180+ L/W is helpful, but it's always good to know what else is out there.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Not sure why the GE ABV3 didn't turn up in my original DLC search, but I went back and searched the ABV3 and found the following:

Total DLC listed ABV3 variations: 1190
DLC listed ABV3 with 180+ L/W: 13
DLC listed ABV3 with 180+ L/W 70 CRI: 12
DLC listed ABV3 with 180+ L/W 80 CRI: 1

High bay is the only indoor category that can get DLC listing with less than 80 CRI.

 

[Lonnies Performance]

I bought the Eiko 223w, 4ft. length for around $225ea. I'm pleased with the results & get a lot of compliments on the light quality.

Not the 180l/w you were referencing though.

LLH-3C-50K-U
4’
223W
29,213 lumen
5000K Frosted
0-10V dimmable
120-277
Rated lifetime L70
>100,000 @ 40°C (104°F)
>72,000 @ 50°C (122°F)
CRI: >80