Just got an old fridge for the shop...1992 vintage Kitchenaid. It seems to work fine however it is tripping my GFCI outlets. Why is it doing this? It works fine plugged into a normal outlet. Seems like I've heard of older fridges doing this before, but I can't remember why...
Fridge tripping GFCI?
- Thread starter Wow
- Start date
softballgarage
Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2009
- Messages
- 11
don't plug fridges or freezers to gfci outlets. the motor kicking on will trip the gfci.
Gary S
Well-known member
I'd be seriously afraid of that refrigerator. My garage refrigerator is on a GFI all the time and it has never tripped it. Refrigerator and freezer compressors are known to develop internal shorts in the compressor motor. This will cause the GFI to trip. Under the right conditions, it can also electrocute you. Before I would use any refrigerator that trips a GFI, I would check it out thoroughly. Get a voltmeter. Plug the fridge in, and do not touch it with your hands or any part of your body. Find a good earth ground to put the ground lead of the meter. (water pipe, electrical ground rod, or something equal). Then put the red lead of the meter on the refrigerator metal parts. If you read any AC voltage there, unplug the refrigerator and dispose of it right away.
I had one like that years ago, and it could have killed someone. I junked it.
I had one like that years ago, and it could have killed someone. I junked it.
jkeyser14
Well-known member
That's a common problem. Because of it, there's an exception in the NEC code book that says you can have dedicated outlets for appliances, and these outlets are not required to be gfi protected.
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nate379
Banned
Yeah fridges, freezer, block heaters, sump pumps... all things that should not be on a GFCI IMO.
rsanter
Well-known member
the start up electrical draw will spike just long enough to trip a weak breaker, a breaker loaded near max, or too small of a breaker
bob
bob
nissan_crawler
Well-known member
My previous fridge was only 5years old and killed several gfi outlets, my new one killed the third. I gave up and put a regular outlet in.
The same goes for the garage. I couldn't keep gfi outlets in there, either.
The same goes for the garage. I couldn't keep gfi outlets in there, either.
rockwithjason
Well-known member
do a resistance test on the fridge to eliminate any safety issues. place one side of an ohm meter on the hot pin of the plug and place the other side on the frame of the fridge. if you read anything other than infinite resistance you have a ground fault in the unit and repairs or replacement are in order. if the unit checks out then you should probably replace the outlet with a single regular recepticle.
If the GFCI is trippping it is just doing the job it was intended to do , the fridge is the most likely culprit. Please note the exceptions allowed for areas that are required to have GFCI protection are being eliminated w/ every new edition of the NEC, in commercial kitchens there are NO exceptions to GFCI requirements on any cord & plug 120 volt appliance on 15 & 20 circuits, that requirement will be expanded.....
tcianci
Well-known member
Is the fridge on bare concrete? I have seen instances where all it took was to isolate the fridge from the cement and the tripping stopped. GFCI outlets are a real PITA in some situations. Do check if any part of the box is becoming electrically hot. IIRC, a GFCI will trip if there is any difference between the current in the hot side to the current in the neutral side. If you have a minute current flow through the cabinet to earth ground, it will trip.
Well, here's the thing - Aren't ALL shop outlets supposed to be GFCI? I have had a very similar fridge in my other garage for 10 years now on a GFCI, and it never blows. It does seemingly work fine on a regular outlet.
I'll give the fridge a check to see if I can find any stray voltage...it is directly on concrete. I may try swapping the GFCI outlet too, it's a brand new Leviton 20A industral grade receptacle, but it wouldn't be the first one that went bad...
tcianci
Well-known member
I agree 100000000%....but I'm rewiring my commercial building which is technically illegal because I'm not technically an electrician, so I want to follow the code 110% in case anything ever happens. I'm only making safety improvements and I take more care than many electricians would - but the gov't doesn't understand common sense like that.
Worst case scenario though - I have to install a dedicated non GFCI for the fridge - I can do that. Is that allowed in a "shop"?
Zrexxer
Well-known member
As stated multiple times above, despite all the paranoia refrigerators are a notorious source of nuisance trips on GFCI receptacles. It's well known and documented, and the NFPA has recognized it in the NEC.
tcianci
Well-known member
While I appreciate your enthusiasm to do everything correctly, if you aren't a licensed electrician or at least doing the job as a homeowner with a permit, they will string you up by the short hairs if there is an electric-related issue that involves an injury, death or insurance loss. That being said, I wired my entire house with a permit when I built it and have wired everything else since then, sometimes permitted, sometimes not. The older I get and as a contractor, the more job sites I have been on and the more useless regulations that we have heaped on us year after year, the more I just say screw 'em. Of course I can't do that on a customers project but if I want to install a circuit for XYZ purpose, it's my property and my ***, I'm comfortable with it.
Well, tonight I tested it with my low voltage non contact voltmeter, and it beeped around the fridge door handle. I tested the voltage between the outside of the fridge and a ground and got 0.25v AC...but that could simply be a ghost reading on my cheap DMM. I can't find any ground fault with the plug. Obviously it's been plugged in and turned on and I've been touching it...still haven't been electrocuted. 
Known nuisance tripper sure, but does that make a non GFCI outlet legal in my shop for this reason?
I agree...that's why I'm being REAL careful with the electricity...I do trust my own wiring enough to make myself liable for it. Like you say I wouldn't do that on somebody else's building. Unfortunately this is a commercial building so I can't get my own permits even though it's my building.
Gary S
Well-known member
Well, tonight I tested it with my low voltage non contact voltmeter, and it beeped around the fridge door handle. I tested the voltage between the outside of the fridge and a ground and got 0.25v AC...but that could simply be a ghost reading on my cheap DMM. I can't find any ground fault with the plug. Obviously it's been plugged in and turned on and I've been touching it...still haven't been electrocuted.
I wouldn't worry about 0.25V. If the fridge has a problem, you would be seeing most of the 110v on the handle, outer case, or other metal parts it.
Years ago I had one in my kitchen that had a defective motor. It ran fine and we didn't notice anything until my small Son went to open it one day. He was small enough that he couldn't just pull it open against the magnetic seal without bracing his other hand to get leverage. He put his other hand up on the counter top and his hand was on the metal sink. As soon as he touched both the sink and the fridge, he got an electrical shock. I measured across the sink and fridge with my meter and found about 80V AC. Yet, by standing on the wood floor and touching the fridge alone, we felt nothing because we weren't grounded. It could have been bad for months or years and we wouldn't have known it. This was before the days of GFCI being required in kitchens. A GFCI would have tripped and warned us.
If yours reads only 0.25V plugged in and running, I wouldn't worry about it.
Aceman
Well-known member
I think you're missing the point. How is a grounded fridge ever going to have 110 volts on it? GFCI's sense a current imbalance between line and neutral. So when the compressor starts going out and starts leaking current the GFCI will catch it, long before a regular non-gfci'ed circuit will sense a ground fault.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
The exception in the 2005 code section 210.8 that allowed a single receptacle for one appliance or a duplex receptacle for two appliances to be NON-GFCI in basements, garages, etc, was removed from the 2008 code. The only exceptions in the 2008 code are for electric driveway/sidewalk heating equipment and permanently installed fire and burglar alarms.
Charles
Charles
LoneGunman
Well-known member
Just picture how bad it would be if you put AFCI's on every circuit like a former member was going to do.
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Well, my building was wired in '97, so I'll find some old but useful outlets and wire and say it's always been there.
Shhhhhh......nate379
Banned
Many places have not adopted the 2008 code yet anyhow.
The NEC is a good guideline, but some of the stuff in there is just plan stupid. If I HAD to have this GFCI on the fridge to pass an inspection I'd throw it in, and then pull it out after. Not chancing the loss of hundreds of $$s of food over that.
The NEC is a good guideline, but some of the stuff in there is just plan stupid. If I HAD to have this GFCI on the fridge to pass an inspection I'd throw it in, and then pull it out after. Not chancing the loss of hundreds of $$s of food over that.
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Not attempting to make recommendations to anyone, I think the idea of GFCI circuits in a shop or garage is bad also. Receptacles being used to power items outdoors or near water or potential of water, yes, but general shop and garage use, no.
I made the statement since several others had said it was OK under the code, an exception. It was, but no longer is.
Charles
tcianci
Well-known member
So was it removed from the code because it was a dangerous situation or because electrical contractors will have more work because of the ever changing more restrictive regulations. Buildings have been wired for electricity for over a century. The past few years things have really ramped up as far as regulation goes. I'm not an electrician, but as a contractor, I have one work for me regularly. He constantly bemoans the fact that things are getting more complicated but no safer. From what I get from him, lots of the new devices and regs are more headaches that they are worth.
VHF
Well-known member
How old is the GFCI receptacle that is tripping? Is it from '97? I wonder if a new GFCI receptacle might solve the problem. My impression is that that new ones may be less likely to nuisance trip.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Forget the receptacle. Just mount a disconnect on the wall and hard wire the thing. 
nissan_crawler
Well-known member
I doubt it. I bet I killed 15 Levitons in the last 5 years. I gave up, only the kitchen (minus the fridge), and bathrooms get one now. I have one of those 2' extension cords that have one if I happen to need it elsewhere.
I marked one every time it tripped. After the third trip, I chucked it. I found they went downhill fast after the second or third time.
tcianci
Well-known member
Even a "grounded" device has the possibility of some unexpected parts becoming energized. Parts of the device can be at line voltage without ever tripping even a GFCI breaker. Now, if you were to complete a circuit to ground with part of your body, there would be 2 separate ground paths for the current, one through the neutral and the other through your body. This is exactly the situation tha GFCI's are supposed to help. You can hold onto the hot lead of any circuit all day long and your body will be at the same voltage as the circuit and you wil never get a shock, until you contact a ground as well.
A regular non-GFCI'd circuit will NEVER sense a ground fault, A normal circuit breaker or fuse will simply open the circuit once the design current limit has been exceeded.
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LoneGunman
Well-known member
Money plays a huge part in what gets put in the code book, it isn't the electrical contractors doing it though, there are many manufacturer reps that sit on the board, compare the price of regular breakers to AFCIs and GFCIs, the manufacturer is making a lot more money on the later two.
"So was it removed from the code because it was a dangerous situation or because electrical contractors will have more work because of the ever changing more restrictive regulations."
"So was it removed from the code because it was a dangerous situation or because electrical contractors will have more work because of the ever changing more restrictive regulations."