anndel
Well-known member
Looks like a piece of foil.
Chinese Steel and Mfg
- Thread starter victor252
- Start date
Looks like a piece of foil.
vssjim
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The first car built in china and imported here was a volvo because they own volvo 100 percent
reader2580
Well-known member
Your employer is willing to sacrifice American jobs for a 10% savings? I guess business today is all about saving a buck even if it means some day there will be no customers because no American has a decent job.
driz
Well-known member
True story. A few years back Bombardier switched to a Chinese steel company to source steel for their rail car plant in Plattsburgh Ny. They had been getting it from a US mill prior. They got a huge contract for subway cars for Chicago Transit I think around 1000 IIRC cars, huge $$$$. They make them on N East coast and ship them as oversized loads down to I 70 West then all way over to Chicago requiring ****** vehicles special kneeling steerable $$$$$ Lowboys on a 2 day over 1 day return home trip empty. For some reason they can’t go rail because they are too wide for some underpasses ect.
They had a number of the finished bodies already out there waiting for the wheel trucks fitting and final touches. When they started drilling for the mountings they start finding these large voids inside the castings. That made them unsafe to mount the wheel trucks of course so they all got shipped back again and bodies removed / replaced on solid frames then reshipped AGAIN. A real savings there right? I guess they should invest in an X-ray machine when dealing with that place.
I got this happy tale from a friend of mine who dragged these messed up subway cars back and forth so I know it’s true. What amazes me is not that the Chinese make such garbage but rather this. How they dare not check for such problems ( x Ray) on their ow when dealing with major contracts. Secondly why US companies don’t do the same since it’s common knowledge China pushes a lot of sub standard merchandise. Food for thought eh?
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You do bring up a very good point.
It's likely in many of these quality issues, companies just mainly say "hey china send us a 1/2" wrench, made out of metal" and blow off the Mundane and somewhat costly issues of the specifications, certifications any any type of quality control, which something that they would've done in the past purchasing from most any American company supplying materials or components.
Some companies realize the quick profits from outsourcing to China and other countries so they're all about the quick buck now.
It's pretty doubtful, that companies like Milwaukee Tool, Nikon, and Apple, just tell their Chinese manufacturers to build their products with whatever **** they have laying around.
The Chinese are in business to make money, so they will cut corners where they can, just like any other business, in any other country. Including the US
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dclassical
Well-known member
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- Sep 25, 2008
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I think his point was on quality and not on price since made in China may be more expensive, at times, than made in the USA:
"I work closely with a factory in China that charges +/- 10% of what USA factories charge but the quality of the Chinese factory beats the quality of any of the USA factories."
Do you currently own an American factory, that hires American workers and gives them great pay and benefits?
Just curious.
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That was my thought as well... That article mention, It's not just imported metal from China, It's "ALL" steel and Aluminum goods from ALL countries. Effectively that have would have put the U.S. in us against the world situation, (including Canada unless they found some loopholes)....
"Take Names Gate" ?
It was also on the local news as well.
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Ji m
Well-known member
I understand some news groups love to get the public into a hand-wringing frenzy at the drop of a hat,
but PROPOSED changes, and a PROPOSED tariff are just that,
something being discussed.
Negotiations sometimes start with the worst case scenario and work their way back from there.
something like:
"If you don't do your homework you'll have no TV for a month"
or
"if you don't help do the dishes, I'm not going to cook dinner anymore"
To keep this non-political I'll just generically say
that being critical of new ideas diminishes the political capital of the proposer by forcing them on the defensive,
and grants political capital to anyone who opposes the ideas.
Yeah, who forgot to tell the world market: "Hey, stop crashing. It's just a bad idea, we haven't actually done it yet"
It's almost as if global economies are reactionary and not an entity you can reason with to explain the nuances of your strategy. If only people knew this beforehand!
Yes looks like a playbook from "T.N.G", but smells something more sinister.
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Ji m
Well-known member
You mean like when the USA lost it's AAA credit rating:
devalued US Treasuries took a giant hit,
gold & silver went up, stocks went down,
silver then dropped,
and after 3-4 days of calamity....
US Treasuries (the things that were de-valued in the first place!) went way up as everyone was searching for a safe haven for their money.
^This was extremely interesting to me
some may have been able to predict the initial reaction,
but I don't think anyone predicted the final results (Rising T-Bond and T-Bill values).
The market is easily spooked,
look at how many times in the last 10 years the market went straight down because the Federal Reserve announcing it *might* "taper" off their "Stock Buying Program" ("Quantitative Easing"/buying US Treasuries on the open market),
or *might* raise interest rates.
They did not raise interest rates for 8 years (but did raise them 3-4 times in the last 16 months!) and the market still got scared every time the subject came up.
^why did the Federal Reserve talk about raising rates and tapering off QE for 8 years if it was never going to do either (until now)?
Ji m
Well-known member
You mean like when the USA lost it's AAA credit rating:
devalued US Treasuries took a giant hit,
gold & silver went up, stocks went down,
silver then dropped,
and after 3-4 days of calamity....
US Treasuries (the things that were de-valued in the first place!) went way up as everyone was searching for a safe haven for their money.
^This was extremely interesting to me
some may have been able to predict the initial reaction,
but I don't think anyone predicted the final results (Rising T-Bond and T-Bill values).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a-credit-rating-from-sp-idUSTRE7746VF20110807
^if anyone missed it the first time through
August 2011
First:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United States lost its top-tier AAA credit rating from Standard & Poor’s on Friday in an unprecedented blow to the world’s largest economy in the wake of a political battle that took the country to the brink of default.
S&P cut the long-term U.S. credit rating by one notch to AA-plus on concerns about the government’s budget deficit and rising debt burden. The action is likely to eventually raise borrowing costs for the American government, companies and consumers.
Then:
The S&P 500 stock index fell 10.8 percent in the past 10 trading days on concerns that the U.S. economy may be heading into another recession and because the European debt crisis has worsened.
Treasury bonds, once indisputably seen as the safest security in the world, are now rated lower than bonds issued by countries such as Britain, Germany, France or Canada.
Reactions:
“China will be forced to consider other investments for its reserves. U.S. Treasuries aren’t as safe anymore,” said Li Jie, a director at the reserves research institute at the Central University of Finance and Economics.
In the end:
In fact, Treasuries have rallied this week, driving the yield on the benchmark 10-year note to 2.34 percent, its lowest level in about 10 months. This reflects a belief among investors that U.S. government debt is still a safe bet at a time when prices of stocks and commodities are falling on concern about slowing global economic growth.
Did you just quote yourself?
Let's look at a real case sample
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff
Let's look at a real case sample
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff
L5wolvesf
Well-known member
RE China
Nothing personal here and I'm not into the whole China good or bad thing, but the article I was reading just before opening GJ was about the F-22, Su-57 and J-20.
http://www.businessinsider.com/comparison-of-f-22-su-57-and-j-20-stealth-planes-2018-3
Nothing personal here and I'm not into the whole China good or bad thing, but the article I was reading just before opening GJ was about the F-22, Su-57 and J-20.
http://www.businessinsider.com/comparison-of-f-22-su-57-and-j-20-stealth-planes-2018-3
For real?
Tariffs will do nothing but pass higher costs on to consumers. IMO. For both imported and domestic steel will cost more.
The F-22 fighter s a great aircraft, so of course it has to be discontinued.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ericas-stealth-f-22-raptor-america-cant-19420
Pretty sure they did, but do a search of that US Ambassador to the United Nations, speech and taking names, you'll understand "taking names"-gate. Your chart fits right into that.
If I understand what Ji m is saying... it's probably one of his playbook from "Art of the deal", But I am illiterate, never read it, maybe someone else can comment... --> (the art of the deal tactics, not politics)
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anndel
Well-known member
They think we're all stupid and wouldn't check.
jonesg
Well-known member
It's a stone cold fact that "ethics" vary greatly from one culture to another.
What could be completely unethical in one place is considered normal in another.
If you are traveling to a far away place to do business you would want to find out what the limits of normal ethical business behavior are considered there.
Then expect the possibility of being treated on the fringes of that "ethical behavior" as a stranger in a strange land.
^this applies to anyone going anywhere,
not meant to single out any one culture, group, peoples, or places.
There is no such thing as business ethics.
Its either legal or not legal.
China can copy anything except imagination.
The major Chinese advantage is their government promoting the sales of products at or below costs to customers with profit reimbursement from the government after the fact. That is the major reason the anti-dumping-duty was enforced. The Chinese would flat out lie about materials and costs to entice customers to do business with them. But they got caught doing it.
It's interesting that the majority of the working force there over the age of 40 (made up number, but not too far off) are coming from dirt floor farm housing communities and have zero knowledge regarding industry. They have never owned fancy equipment, some of them maybe never had running water or electricity in their homes. For Christ sake they don't wipe their *** after taking a ****. That is the biggest wtf for me, how do you not need to wipe your *** after pooping?
They are way behind modern countries with regards to manufacturing and quality processes, and they should be....they just don't have the experience when making quality components. But like others have said, when asked to make quality, they can. But their prices aren't that far off of US based companies.
It's interesting that the majority of the working force there over the age of 40 (made up number, but not too far off) are coming from dirt floor farm housing communities and have zero knowledge regarding industry. They have never owned fancy equipment, some of them maybe never had running water or electricity in their homes. For Christ sake they don't wipe their *** after taking a ****. That is the biggest wtf for me, how do you not need to wipe your *** after pooping?
They are way behind modern countries with regards to manufacturing and quality processes, and they should be....they just don't have the experience when making quality components. But like others have said, when asked to make quality, they can. But their prices aren't that far off of US based companies.
Huh? You talking about low level toilets where the TP is outside the stall? Or are you talking about some sort of farm outhouse in the sticks that probably resembles what you might find in some remote corner of Murricuh?
Just not sure about that.... why would you care if they wipe their *** or not, unless they are prepping and serving you your sushi bowl, or you are licking your hands after you shaking their hands... It's been stated many times, they don't compete in the quality market...but instead, they make products to your price point.
visionguru
Well-known member
Do you actually know a thing about China? Where are your facts about "not wipe their ***" coming from? Or just imagining things from your mother's basement and come here to speak nonsense?
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Ji m
Well-known member
Legal vs not legal is great,
but what good is winning a lawsuit after the fact
if the money is not recoverable?
That's why I said ethics,
Something you would never expect to happen in a deal on Congress St, Boston
might happen every single day on Laowai St, Shanghai.
Besides legal vs not legal really = who has the best lawyers almost 100% of the time
Ji m
Well-known member
Interesting take,
and yeah, I didn't read the art of the deal either,
but I understand the value of not flipping all your cards face up on the table to start a negotiation.
To keep this completely non-political...
Imagine bringing a friend with you to buy a sweet Craigslist toolbox,
you get there,
and the first thing you 'friend' does is tell the guy exactly how much money you brought with you.
^Not A Friend
LOL, wish I had that patience to play chess when I was a kid
But that is just the icing on the cake... part of the deal, probably not the end goal.
Ji m
Well-known member
LOL, wish I had that patience to play chess when I was a kid
But that is just the icing on the cake... part of the deal, probably not the end goal.
Patience isn't my strong suit either,
but *thought* I could play chess at one point.....
until playing a couple friends that were just released from, um...
'adult reform school'
& found out fast that I can't play chess
I'm not a deal-maker either,
if I have enough money, and it's worth the price, I pay it.
If I do talk someone down on a price,
either I was feeling extra froggy that day,
or on the fence about buying it in the first place.
Maybe, your attachment says it all, - at least for now, it's Russia=Love, China=hate.
That whole thing about "something" makes strange bed-fellows.
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Parrothead
Well-known member
Besides legal vs not legal really = who has the best lawyers almost 100% of the time
^^^This^^^
As long as you know that going in, it usually works out okay.
reader2580
Well-known member
No, I don't own a factory. However, I work at a company that has a 400,000 sq ft manufacturing facility. Raw materials come from either Canada or the USA. All full time employees get good pay along with good healthcare and paid vacation and sick time plus a retirement plan.
Some of the control systems at the manufacturing facility are being replaced. The USA manufacturer of the 30 year old control system did not bid on replacement system as no longer interested in doing business in our industry. The only bids came from Europe with a German company getting the project.