Old Ford Model T wrench and a mystery

[RubiconJK]

I found these at an estate sale this morning hanging next to one another in the garage of an old home in a historic district near me. The longer wrench I've seen before and recognize it as a Ford combination head bolt/spark plug wrench. The shorter wrench is the mystery. There are few markings on this wrench. All I see is the "A" and side by side diamonds as hopefully you can see in my pictures. At first I assumed this was just a household gas furnace valve wrench, but a friend who is familiar with Model T's thinks it may also be a specialty wrench possibly used for Model T headlight adjustment. Any ideas from you all? Thanks.

 

[alton1911]

Looks less like a wrench and more like a handle. Valves are often controlled with a square valve stem, as you stated. It looks like a valve handle to me.

Thanks,
alton1911

 

[MShaw]

Could also be for brake adjustment. The model A I had, had square stems that were adjusted with a double square box wrench.

 

[RubiconJK]

Looks less like a wrench and more like a handle. Valves are often controlled with a square valve stem, as you stated. It looks like a valve handle to me.

Thanks,
alton1911

Thanks Alton, that is what I'm leaning toward unless someone who is more familiar with Model T cars than me comes up with an answer. I think my friend who suggested the headlamp tool had seen a reference to a Prest-O-Lite wrench. Upon researching Prest-O-Lite I learned that they were the leader in pre-electric headlamp development for the automobile industry in the early 1900's. Coincidentally the owners of Prest-O-Lite were also the founders of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway! My wrench is certainly not a Prest-O- Lite but the head shape is similar.

 

[RubiconJK]

Could also be for brake adjustment. The model A I had, had square stems that were adjusted with a double square box wrench.

Ok, thanks. I'll do some research on brake adjustment tools for Model A and Model T to see where that might lead me.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

At first I assumed this was just a household gas furnace valve wrench, but a friend who is familiar with Model T's thinks it may also be a specialty wrench possibly used for Model T headlight adjustment.

I think my friend who suggested the headlamp tool had seen a reference to a Prest-O-Lite wrench. Upon researching Prest-O-Lite I learned that they were the leader in pre-electric headlamp development for the automobile industry in the early 1900's.

This subject came up recently on BlueBomber's 'show your DBE's' thread. Bomber found a Prest-O-Lite DBE wrench with square openings, and mentioned something about the possibility of it being for early Harley/Indian headlamps. That piqued my interest for a few reasons. One, I found the same wrench a few years ago, and two, I also have a couple of INDIAN MOTOCYCLE DOE wrenches. In the end, I think we concluded that our DBE wrenches - vintage, but much newer than your wrench - were for oxy-acetylene torch kits, but now that I'm reading your posts, it's making me wonder if we were too hasty in dismissing the early headlamp application.

Link to that brief three-post dialogue is here.

I am also going to cross-link your thread to Bomber's.

Is it possible to get more details from your friend?

 

[larry_g]

If this were asked on a machinist site you would probably come to the conclusion it was a tool post wrench.

https://www.google.com/search?q=too...tj87ZAhUU9GMKHd6hAF4QsAQI7QE&biw=1435&bih=902


lg
no neat sig line

 

[Farmer J.]

As well as some of those Ford cylinder head wrenches I have 2 of these little ones which I assume are something to do with gas valves.

One is 6 1/4" long with jaw size 3/4" across flats square open end and a steeply tapered box end 5/8" down to 1/2" . It says 'BROWN JNR' on it.

The other is 5 3/8" long with 11/16" hex open end and a 9/16" square box end with only a very slight taper in the casting. It says 'SEARCHLIGHT' on it.

I have not done any research on them.. yet.. but there's virtually no chance they were tool post wrenches on this farm!
My Father told me he once used acetylene lights on everything (whilst he was throwing the remains of one in the scrap one day). He did man a anti aircraft search light in WW2, surely it's not from that?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If this were asked on a machinist site you would probably come to the conclusion it was a tool post wrench.

It does kind of sort of resemble a tool post, machine, or even a set screw wrench, Larry, and if you think about the purpose of tool post, machine, and set screw wrenches in machine shops and factories - turning a square head nut or set screw, it's not too different than turning one you might find on an acetylene lamp or torch, but in my experience, tool post, machine, and set screw wrenches are much more robust, and have an open end and a box end. Also, they are typically round head for access. I can see this wrench being an issue in tight quarters. But, you may be right. Maybe some of them were lighter, single end, and square head.

 

[John T]

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[John T]

A couple more
No clue what they are

No markings




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[leg17]

If this were asked on a machinist site you would probably come to the conclusion it was a tool post wrench.
lg
no neat sig line

I doubt a tool post wrench would be cast.
Invariably they were forged.

 

[RubiconJK]

This subject came up recently on BlueBomber's 'show your DBE's' thread. Bomber found a Prest-O-Lite DBE wrench with square openings, and mentioned something about the possibility of it being for early Harley/Indian headlamps. That piqued my interest for a few reasons. One, I found the same wrench a few years ago, and two, I also have a couple of INDIAN MOTOCYCLE DOE wrenches. In the end, I think we concluded that our DBE wrenches - vintage, but much newer than your wrench - were for oxy-acetylene torch kits, but now that I'm reading your posts, it's making me wonder if we were too hasty in dismissing the early headlamp application.

Link to that brief three-post dialogue is here.

I am also going to cross-link your thread to Bomber's.

Is it possible to get more details from your friend?

Lugz,
I'll see what more he can tell me. His father owned a Model T and is the closest I have to an "expert" right now...Lol! I see some similarities to the smaller wrench on John T's post above and some shown in the link in Larry's post, but one distinguishing factor for mine is the forged in "stop" that you might be able to make out in my first picture that is located just below the head right where the handle begins. That is where the household gas valve thought comes from for me. I'm not sure how the old headlight acetylene valve actuation worked, but at least to me a "stop" wouldn't fit that application as well as some of the other wrenches I've seen above. I also wouldn't think the brake adjustment idea (which my friend suggested) fits my wrench for the same reason.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I doubt a tool post wrench would be cast.
Invariably they were forged.

Indeed, of carbon steel, and as I said above, much more robust. Here's a Williams 555 (1/2") tool post wrench along with some of my other Williams machine shop tools.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...one distinguishing factor for mine is the forged in "stop" that you might be able to make out in my first picture that is located just below the head right where the handle begins.

I didn't see it until you pointed it out. I think you're on the right track.

 

[ttpete]

I found these at an estate sale this morning hanging next to one another in the garage of an old home in a historic district near me. The longer wrench I've seen before and recognize it as a Ford combination head bolt/spark plug wrench. The shorter wrench is the mystery. There are few markings on this wrench. All I see is the "A" and side by side diamonds as hopefully you can see in my pictures. At first I assumed this was just a household gas furnace valve wrench, but a friend who is familiar with Model T's thinks it may also be a specialty wrench possibly used for Model T headlight adjustment. Any ideas from you all? Thanks.

That sparkplug/head bolt wrench is more likely a model A wrench. If the part number on it begins with A, that's what it is. There were several versions that fit different years of cars, and they have different prefixes to the part number.

Model T wrenches have a fixed socket for the head bolt instead of a box end.

 

[RubiconJK]

That sparkplug/head bolt wrench is more likely a model A wrench. If the part number on it begins with A, that's what it is. There were several versions that fit different years of cars, and they have different prefixes to the part number.

Model T wrenches have a fixed socket for the head bolt instead of a box end.

It may not be legible in the picture, but the p/n on my wrench is M-40-17017. Thanks.

 

[ttpete]

It may not be legible in the picture, but the p/n on my wrench is M-40-17017. Thanks.

40 means it is for a V8 beginning in 1934. Those used 18 mm sparkplugs, where the model A had plugs with a 7/8" thread.

 

[RubiconJK]

40 means it is for a V8 beginning in 1934. Those used 18 mm sparkplugs, where the model A had plugs with a 7/8" thread.

This is great to know! Thank you. So if I understood from your previous post, these wrenches all looked similar, but the sizes would change over the years and should be traceable by the p/n?

 

[SKI1019]

The Model "T" tool has a part number T-5893 stamped on it. Most, but not all T model tools have part numbers. The A model tools do not. Beginning in 1933, Ford used a part number system for all their parts and tools. This particular wrench was used in Ford automobiles and Tractors until 1949 or so. I've done some research on the subject and this information comes from the Model T and Model A club websites, so give them the credit for the information.

 

[RubiconJK]

The Model "T" tool has a part number T-5893 stamped on it. Most, but not all T model tools have part numbers. The A model tools do not. Beginning in 1933, Ford used a part number system for all their parts and tools. This particular wrench was used in Ford automobiles and Tractors until 1949 or so. I've done some research on the subject and this information comes from the Model T and Model A club websites, so give them the credit for the information.

Thank you. Do you recognize the smaller wrench as a automobile tool? It was hanging in an old garage with the Ford wrench but I suspect it is a household gas valve wrench.

 

[SKI1019]

Just my hunch, but I'd guess it to be a handle for something as previously stated. I looked at the pictures of the Model T tools and there was nothing in there that looked close. Refrigeration or gas valves would be my best guess.

 

[RubiconJK]

Here is some additional information posted on another thread with a video that shows how the acetylene lights work. Watching the guy operate the valve on the tank I can see where it wouldn't take much of a wrench to actuate the valve as he is barely opening it.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7059831&postcount=1865

 

[ttpete]

This is great to know! Thank you. So if I understood from your previous post, these wrenches all looked similar, but the sizes would change over the years and should be traceable by the p/n?

The basic number, 17017, remained the same for all wrenches of this type. The prefix, 40, refers to the model and year that particular part was first used on. There can also be a suffix that refers to a minor change.

Ford used this system for many years, and it was very useful. All distributors, for instance, used the basic number 12127. Camshafts were all 6250.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

There can also be a suffix that refers to a minor change.

Here's one with a suffix - a 01A-17017B - that was issued in 1941 by Ford to 4,500 limited rate production GP's competing with the same number of Bantam BRC's and Willys MA's in "jeep" field trials conducted by the US Army Quartermaster Corps. Willys won, the MB was born, but when Willys couldn't keep up, the QMC gave the blueprints for the MB and a contract to Ford to build copies. There was no use for the wrench, since they had Willys "Go Devil" engines in them.

 

[ttpete]

Here's one with a suffix - a 01A-17017B - that was issued in 1941 by Ford to 4,500 limited rate production GP's competing with the same number of Bantam BRC's and Willys MA's in "jeep" field trials conducted by the US Army Quartermaster Corps. Willys won, the MB was born, but when Willys couldn't keep up, the QMC gave the blueprints for the MB and a contract to Ford to build copies. There was no use for the wrench, since they had Willys "Go Devil" engines in them.

That became the standard wrench for all of the 41-48 Ford V8 and 4 & 6 cylinder cars and trucks. It was the last of the line because Ford discontinued providing toolkits with each new car or truck.

I have a 52-17017 wrench which is probably the rarest one of the bunch. It was for the little V8-60 engine produced in 37-38.

I have a master Ford parts book for 1941-1946 Ford cars and trucks. Anyone with questions regarding parts or numbers is welcome to PM me.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have a master Ford parts book for 1941-1946 Ford cars and trucks. Anyone with questions regarding parts or numbers is welcome to PM me.

If it includes on-board toolkit tools, I will be in touch, Pete. I have a 1944 SNL G-658, which is a document published by the US Army Ordnance Dept, titled a Ford Master Parts List. It covers all Ford's wartime military vehicles, which were all based on their civilian trucks, including tools. But we've run into a lot of questions where we've wished we had earlier editions.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Prest-o-Lite tank wrench. The "A" is Acetylene. In case the exchange cylinder you got at the Prest-o-Lite dealer (used to be common) had one without a hand knob, or you had a "B" tank.

Some generators (carbide, not electrical) had valves that you needed to use a wrench on like that. Jno. Brown was a (huge) headlight manufacturer, as was Rushmore, Jones, E&J, etc... .

Why Prest-o-lite? Lot cleaner and more reliable than a carbide generator you had to clean and service, but you couldn't put more in on the side of the road if you used up your supply.

 

[ttpete]

If it includes on-board toolkit tools, I will be in touch, Pete. I have a 1944 SNL G-658, which is a document published by the US Army Ordnance Dept, titled a Ford Master Parts List. It covers all Ford's wartime military vehicles, which were all based on their civilian trucks, including tools. But we've run into a lot of questions where we've wished we had earlier editions.

This book has no military parts listed, although the military used civilian type Ford cars and trucks, especially stateside.

Ford listed the 4 cylinder GP engine as available in certain cars and trucks in 1940 and 41. An adaptation also powered the 9N, 2N, and 8N tractors.

I have a very large collection of military manuals, most in pdf format. I collected them over the years. It includes TMs, FMs and many others from all service branches. It probably amounts to around 50 gigabytes. They're in memory and I can pull them up anytime.

 

[RubiconJK]

Prest-o-Lite tank wrench. The "A" is Acetylene. In case the exchange cylinder you got at the Prest-o-Lite dealer (used to be common) had one without a hand knob, or you had a "B" tank.

Some generators (carbide, not electrical) had valves that you needed to use a wrench on like that. Jno. Brown was a (huge) headlight manufacturer, as was Rushmore, Jones, E&J, etc... .

Why Prest-o-lite? Lot cleaner and more reliable than a carbide generator you had to clean and service, but you couldn't put more in on the side of the road if you used up your supply.

Thank you! Were the side by side diamonds Prest-O-Lite's logo?

 

[Lassen Forge]

AFAIK their logo was the name "Prest-o-Lite" either block style or in script. Not sure about the double diamonds...

 

[Farmer J.]

Some generators (carbide, not electrical) had valves that you needed to use a wrench on like that. Jno. Brown was a (huge) headlight manufacturer, as was Rushmore, Jones, E&J, etc... .
.

Thank you for this, first I've learned of it. J.

 

[scottybk]

Sometimes these "weird" old wrenches were for drain plugs. I don't think there was much standardization of machinery prior to WWII. Lots of one-off proprietary fasteners, although due to their popularity and quantity produced, a lot of old Ford tools remained in the wild long after the cars were junked.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This book has no military parts listed...

I wouldn't expect it to, but, while the US Army QMC, and the Ordnance Dept in turn, specified the tools in the on-board toolkits for every truck between 1/4-ton and up to the 6-ton prime movers, they gave vehicle OEM's some latitude on suppliers. For example, for the 11-inch auto wrench, they specified "Billings & Spencer, or Equal." Deep research conducted on Willys, aided by a treasure trove of original factory documents, reveals that Willys preferred B&S, but used Fairmount as an alternative. Similar Ford research lags woefully far behind. The SNL I cited above has helped, as has an SNL for a different Ford vehicle, but most of the toolkit decision making for Ford GPW guys relies on pre-war tool supplier theories. To use the same example, Moore Drop Forge for the 11- (actually 12-inch, in their case) auto wrench. EDIT: If your 41-46 Ford Master Parts Book includes tools, and suppliers and model numbers, I'd like to send you a list of tools to look up.

 

[ttpete]

I wouldn't expect it to, but, while the US Army QMC, and the Ordnance Dept in turn, specified the tools in the on-board toolkits for every truck between 1/4-ton and up to the 6-ton prime movers, they gave vehicle OEM's some latitude on suppliers. For example, for the 11-inch auto wrench, they specified "Billings & Spencer, or Equal." Deep research conducted on Willys, aided by a treasure trove of original factory documents, reveals that Willys preferred B&S, but used Fairmount as an alternative. Similar Ford research lags woefully far behind. The SNL I cited above has helped, as has an SNL for a different Ford vehicle, but most of the toolkit decision making for Ford GPW guys relies on pre-war tool supplier theories. To use the same example, Moore Drop Forge for the 11- (actually 12-inch, in their case) auto wrench. EDIT: If your 41-46 Ford Master Parts Book includes tools, and suppliers and model numbers, I'd like to send you a list of tools to look up.

Ford, at the time, was a "vertical" company that made almost everything itself. Most other companies bought in extensively from other manufacturers. Ford very seldom did until Henry II took over from the old man at the end of WWII. I don't think Ford had much to do with Army vehicle toolkits. Those appear to be designed by Army Ordnance and contracted for separately, then installed on the assembly line.

Civilian Ford-furnished tools are in the 17000 basic number sequence. Typically, there are a couple of end wrenches, a pair of pliers, a screwdriver, a monkey wrench, and the spark plug-cylinder head wrench in a tool bag. Other tools are jacks, wheel wrenches, grease guns, and cranks. There's application data that is mostly model numbers and wheelbase info for trucks.

Special dealer and rebuild tools aren't included in this book.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't think Ford had much to do with Army vehicle toolkits. Those appear to be designed by Army Ordnance and contracted for separately, then installed on the assembly line.

Pete,
There's no thinking or guesswork necessary. Loads of historical facts available on this subject. And, I just told you how it worked. The QMC and then the Ordnance Dept in turn specified the contents of the toolkits that went into every wheeled truck from 1/4 to 6 tons. And the vehicle OEMs, including Ford, acquired all the tools for the toolkits and issued them in each vehicle when they rolled off the assembly line. They were accessories to the vehicle. But, as I just said above, the QMC and Ordnance Dept gave the OEM's some leeway on suppliers. It was my honor and privilege to co-author a chapter in a book on the Willys toolkits, with gigabytes of scanned factory documents (engineering drawings, Bills of Materials, etc) from Willys at our disposal, identifying the suppliers. The Ford toolkit picture, on the other hand, is much less informed in terms of suppliers, involving much more guesswork based on a found more or less unmolested toolkit and some tangential documents. Hence my interest in your book as potential source of some supplier information.

Civilian Ford-furnished tools are in the 17000 basic number sequence. Typically, there are a couple of end wrenches, a pair of pliers, a screwdriver, a monkey wrench, and the spark plug-cylinder head wrench in a tool bag. Other tools are jacks, wheel wrenches, grease guns, and cranks.

Does the book list tools or not? And if so, does it identify suppliers? If yes to both questions, I am interested in sending you a list of the tools in the toolkit and asking if you would find the tool or similar tool in your book and identify the supplier. If no to the second question, then we can disregard.

 

[ttpete]

Pete,
There's no thinking or guesswork necessary. Loads of historical facts available on this subject. And, I just told you how it worked. The QMC and then the Ordnance Dept in turn specified the contents of the toolkits that went into every wheeled truck from 1/4 to 6 tons. And the vehicle OEMs, including Ford, acquired all the tools for the toolkits and issued them in each vehicle when they rolled off the assembly line. They were accessories to the vehicle. But, as I just said above, the QMC and Ordnance Dept gave the OEM's some leeway on suppliers. It was my honor and privilege to co-author a chapter in a book on the Willys toolkits, with gigabytes of scanned factory documents (engineering drawings, Bills of Materials, etc) from Willys at our disposal, identifying the suppliers. The Ford toolkit picture, on the other hand, is much less informed in terms of suppliers, involving much more guesswork based on a found more or less unmolested toolkit and some tangential documents. Hence my interest in your book as potential source of some supplier information.


Does the book list tools or not? And if so, does it identify suppliers? If yes to both questions, I am interested in sending you a list of the tools in the toolkit and asking if you would find the tool or similar tool in your book and identify the supplier. If no to the second question, then we can disregard.

There's one page. It lists a few hand tools and mostly tire changing tools and crank handles. It doesn't list manufacturers or suppliers and there are no illustrations. If you want, I could scan it and e-mail it as a pdf.

Have you ever considered using the Ford archives that are here at the Benson Ford research center that's part of the Henry Ford museum?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A colleague has gone a few times. It's easier to get into Ft Knox apparently, and they won't let you scan anything. But mainly the records from WWII and the GPW contracts just aren't forthcoming in detail.

 

[bgarrett]

A couple more
No clue what they are

No markings




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I have 7 of the long flat wrench and was told they are for Chevy big truck wheels/lugnuts. From the 30s if I remember