feasible 4 stage compressor for shop air?

[Skunkape]

Hey guys,

I want to pick your brains about using a 4 stage compressor for air in my shop.. I'm a former scuba instructor, and have a Bauer Verticon compressor, 13cfm, 6000 psi. I've got a 4 tank 6000psi cascade system used to fill scuba tanks, each tank hold ~500cf of air. I've got a ton of money invested in this thing, and cringe at the thought of buying another compressor for shop air..

So I'm thinking on far end cascade bottle, placing a regulator with an output of ~150-175psi and piping it in to a Rapidair delivery system. Part of my thinking says this will work, the other part thinks the re-charge time would take too long.. Any thoughts?

https://www.bauercomp.com/en/products-solutions/breathing-air-systems/scuba-diving/vertecon%C2%AE

[/IMG]

 

[xtremek]

That works out to 15,000 gallons at 6000 psi? I would think that should be enough overkill, but I'm no expert. I have a 2 stage, 80 gallon compressor that work pretty good for my body tools/die grinders.

 

[GMCGarage]

Unelss you need something that needs more than 13cfm and plan to use it for at least 2 hours straight with your compressor off, you will be fine.

You could use it intermittently for days on end until it gets down to below 100psi which is what most tools require.

They would refill easily in a hour or two correct?

What are we missing here?

I would rather though sell it, buy a nice shop compressor and put the rest of the money into something else.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

What are you doing in your shop that requires air? Just filling tires and running an impact and the occasional die grinder? Depending on the resale value, you may be ahead selling it and moving to cordless tools. If you are painting, sand blasting or running die grinders/sanders all day long it may be worth it.

 

[ejabour]

Do you have this wired up and fully installed at your new location?

It would definitely work but in my opinion would not be optimal. There is a lot of wasted energy involved in compressing air to 6000psi when you only need a service pressure of 120 or so.

If I no longer needed it to fill tanks, I would sell the system you have and buy a suitable system designed for shop use. And have money in the bank to spare!

Hey guys,

I want to pick your brains about using a 4 stage compressor for air in my shop.. I'm a former scuba instructor, and have a Bauer Verticon compressor, 13cfm, 6000 psi. I've got a 4 tank 6000psi cascade system used to fill scuba tanks, each tank hold ~500cf of air. I've got a ton of money invested in this thing, and cringe at the thought of buying another compressor for shop air..

So I'm thinking on far end cascade bottle, placing a regulator with an output of ~150-175psi and piping it in to a Rapidair delivery system. Part of my thinking says this will work, the other part thinks the re-charge time would take too long.. Any thoughts?

https://www.bauercomp.com/en/products-solutions/breathing-air-systems/scuba-diving/vertecon%C2%AE

[/IMG]

 

[Skunkape]

I would love to be able to sell it, as well as the cascade system! No takers as of yet.. That's why I would like to put it to use instead of it just setting there..

 

[bczygan]

Hey guys,

I want to pick your brains about using a 4 stage compressor for air in my shop.. I'm a former scuba instructor, and have a Bauer Verticon compressor, 13cfm, 6000 psi. I've got a 4 tank 6000psi cascade system used to fill scuba tanks, each tank hold ~500cf of air. I've got a ton of money invested in this thing, and cringe at the thought of buying another compressor for shop air..

So I'm thinking on far end cascade bottle, placing a regulator with an output of ~150-175psi and piping it in to a Rapidair delivery system. Part of my thinking says this will work, the other part thinks the re-charge time would take too long.. Any thoughts?

https://www.bauercomp.com/en/products-solutions/breathing-air-systems/scuba-diving/vertecon%C2%AE

[/IMG]

I believe it will work fine, but I have a call in to the mfg. tech support.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

OK,

I have answers.

Selling the system? Some of the mfg's distributors will buy back a system and rehab and resell it. One in TX and one in OH do.

As far as using it. It will work but there are 3 concerns.

First, the filter will need replacing more often if used for long periods, and it's expensive ($50 or so).

Then, short cycling the motor won't be good for it.

And finally, a regulator to reduce it from 6000PSI down to 150PSI will be expensive ($400 or so).

Bill

 

[joe_padavano]

The reality is that using a 10HP compressor (presumably at 3PH) simply to get 13SCFM is a big waste. A 5HP compressor that would run on 220 single phase would have the same performance at a fraction of the cost. Yeah, I realize this is sunk cost, but is it really what you need? Do you really want to be running a 10HP 3PH compressor just to run an impact gun? 13SCFM isn't really adequate for media blasting, for example.

I'm guessing this was bought under a business and the purchase price has already been fully depreciated? Reconfiguring the compressor for more volume at lower pressure is likely not feasible.

 

[Skunkape]

OK,

I have answers.

Selling the system? Some of the mfg's distributors will buy back a system and rehab and resell it. One in TX and one in OH do.

As far as using it. It will work but there are 3 concerns.

First, the filter will need replacing more often if used for long periods, and it's expensive ($50 or so).

Then, short cycling the motor won't be good for it.

And finally, a regulator to reduce it from 6000PSI down to 150PSI will be expensive ($400 or so).

Bill

Thanks so much Bill! Good food for thought.. I just HATE to drop MORE money on this thing... Wish I could unload it and be done with it. Not a whole lot of scuba shops around Oklahoma... Much less someone wanting to drop 12K on a compressor.

 

[Skunkape]

The reality is that using a 10HP compressor (presumably at 3PH) simply to get 13SCFM is a big waste. A 5HP compressor that would run on 220 single phase would have the same performance at a fraction of the cost. Yeah, I realize this is sunk cost, but is it really what you need? Do you really want to be running a 10HP 3PH compressor just to run an impact gun? 13SCFM isn't really adequate for media blasting, for example.

I'm guessing this was bought under a business and the purchase price has already been fully depreciated? Reconfiguring the compressor for more volume at lower pressure is likely not feasible.

Yup, that's exactly where I'm at with it. Just taking up space at this point.

 

[Augus7us]

You can try ebay. I think more people see it and I've sold some hard to sell stuff on there that I couldn't move on cl. Scuba forums would be another place.

Also, I agree with the consensus here. Sometimes bigger is better, but not always.

-Clint

 

[redmondjp]

I haven't seen this unit, but is there any possibility of tapping into the pump after the second stage and bypassing the third and fourth stages?

 

[ford33]

You may need to step down the 6000 psi to 150 psi in stages. I doubt that a single pressure regulator will provide the needed accuracy to deliver 150 psi outlet with a 6000 psi inlet pressure.

 

[MattT]

That works out to 15,000 gallons at 6000 psi?

Pretty sure each tank is 500 cubic feet of, atmospheric pressure, air compressed to 6,000 psi. 500 c.f. is an 8' cube. If my back of the envelope calcs are right the OPs system is the equivalent of about 1350 gallons at 150 psi. A lot of air and one tank would also be useful for mobile work.

Regards selling fire departments probably could use it for filling their tanks. Other possible uses are pre charged pneumatic air guns and paintball guns. Worst case you might be able to give the thing to a VFD and write the cost off on taxes.

 

[cvairwerks]

6000 PSIG to 150 in a single regulator is no problem, other than it’s an expensive unit. Where the problem come is the flow rate. Would have to do some serious digging to find that out.

 

[58Yeoman]

Maybe you should expand your search area. The factory where I worked had the 4 tanks to refill their ScottAir packs. We contracted with a supplier to replace the tanks when needed. Look at factories or fire fighting businesses that use Scott Air packs. I don't know what your equipment would cost, but it may be feasible if they need their air packs filled regularly. Just a thought.

 

[joe_padavano]

I haven't seen this unit, but is there any possibility of tapping into the pump after the second stage and bypassing the third and fourth stages?

This is exactly what I was thinking. That should get you more volume at a lower, more usable pressure.

 

[ejabour]

That was my first thought. The 2 issues are modifying the control system to shut on and off at the appropriate pressures.

The other thing that may be an issue is that the 4th stage piston on this bauer might be a floating design. I thought they used cylinder pressure to seat it against the crown of the 2nd stage piston which drives it. If there is no 4th stage pressure it could lead to catastrophic failure in the 4th stage.

Again, I'm not certain about this as I am only used to MAKO 4 stage compressors but I seem to remember a Bauer tech talking about this floating piston design

This is exactly what I was thinking. That should get you more volume at a lower, more usable pressure.

 

[mike93lx]

Pretty sure each tank is 500 cubic feet of, atmospheric pressure, air compressed to 6,000 psi. 500 c.f. is an 8' cube. If my back of the envelope calcs are right the OPs system is the equivalent of about 1350 gallons at 150 psi. A lot of air and one tank would also be useful for mobile work.

Regards selling fire departments probably could use it for filling their tanks. Other possible uses are pre charged pneumatic air guns and paintball guns. Worst case you might be able to give the thing to a VFD and write the cost off on taxes.

No experience with volunteer fire departments, but that hits me as a liability for them. Without an expert on staff, how do they know everything is working safely and properly? Seems a hell of a lot easier to buy tanks of air when needed. I would also expect them to not need a lot of air too.

 

[Brodieb]

Its been a while since I volunteered, but back when I did the department had a maintenance team (paid) - there is a lot of equipment to keep in proper working order, not even counting the trucks. And the air was used as often as possible. Every call the tanks went on, training too. Why not- all we had to do was leave the used tanks at the side of the garage and they got magically refilled. Same as with the extinguishers - the thought is better use em and get used to em even if they're not necessary, air and water are cheap.

 

[sberry]

You should do your best to sell it off and buy a plug and play comp that meets your needs. The good news is that if you have the available power, 3ph to run that good used comps are plentiful.

 

[May Pop]

I once worked with a guy we thought was a skunkape. At least he smelled like one.

Ron