Vintage Delta Contractor Saw: Dust Collection

[Ryan]

So I've been working on this little project for a few weeks now - mostly on lunch breaks and time between the kid's sporting events. The end goal wasn't to so much to create something as it was to learn something. And, in that, I think I've succeeded...


To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.

...

 

[tcianci]

Hi Ryan,

That was a very interesting way you engineered the curvy shape of the collector. As soon as I saw you trying to assemble the pieces though, I thought maybe you should have had the machine put a hole through each leg of the collector sections and then stack all the pieces on dowels to keep them aligned during assembly. Just a thought, I know there's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

 

[Ryan]

Hi Ryan,

That was a very interesting way you engineered the curvy shape of the collector. As soon as I saw you trying to assemble the pieces though, I thought maybe you should have had the machine put a hole through each leg of the collector sections and then stack all the pieces on dowels to keep them aligned during assembly. Just a thought, I know there's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

Yeah, I TOTALLY should have done that...

 

[oberst]

That's really cool. You have patience in spades.

(I wish I could find a set of deco legs for my vintage Delta jointer.)

That shoebox Ford sure does make a nice backdrop.

 

[Bob Hall]

Ryan, that's a real nice piece of work! I like your orderly process and the outcome is excellent. The opening in the back of a contractor saw is the age old problem for dust collection, but looking at your final scene, I wondered if you could make a panel that covers the opening and is removed for non-90 degree cuts or maybe one that rotates with the tilting arbor/motor assembly to at least mostly block the opening.... Just a thought, keep up the good wood work.

 

[Cactus1]

Turned out great! I love that little saw. Old tools are the ****.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Very cool.

 

[southpier]

you need a computer & cnc machine to cut out a piece of plywood? OMG

of course I remember when carpenters carried hammers instead of cell phones, too.

 

[Ryan]

you need a computer & cnc machine to cut out a piece of plywood? OMG

of course I remember when carpenters carried hammers instead of cell phones, too.

Yeah. I guess I do... grandpa.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

Very nice work. I like the saw, I have a Delta Rockwell of about the same vintage as yours. I like the old casters and art deco looking controls too...

 

[Ryan]

Ryan, that's a real nice piece of work! I like your orderly process and the outcome is excellent. The opening in the back of a contractor saw is the age old problem for dust collection, but looking at your final scene, I wondered if you could make a panel that covers the opening and is removed for non-90 degree cuts or maybe one that rotates with the tilting arbor/motor assembly to at least mostly block the opening.... Just a thought, keep up the good wood work.

I'm in a weird spot with this saw. It's actually pretty perfect for my needs as I really only use it for long rips. I use my MFT for everything else simply because it is virtually dustless in operation.

But I like messing with things. And I've thought about building a Beisemeyer style fence for it, but I'm afraid the saw is too small for such heft. And if I go to that much trouble, I might as well do it to an old unisaw or something similar.

But the thing is, dust collection on a unisaw isn't all that great either. And if I'm gonna go with a full sized saw, I might as well start thinking about a SawStop. My neighbor, a way more experienced woodworker than me, just recently damn near cut his hand off with his table saw... and that scares me...

And... And...

I dunno... I've decided to continue using this saw until/if I outgrow it I guess.

 

[Cactus1]

I'm in a weird spot with this saw. It's actually pretty perfect for my needs as I really only use it for long rips. I use my MFT for everything else simply because it is virtually dustless in operation.

But I like messing with things. And I've thought about building a Beisemeyer style fence for it, but I'm afraid the saw is too small for such heft. And if I go to that much trouble, I might as well do it to an old unisaw or something similar.

But the thing is, dust collection on a unisaw isn't all that great either. And if I'm gonna go with a full sized saw, I might as well start thinking about a SawStop. My neighbor, a way more experienced woodworker than me, just recently damn near cut his hand off with his table saw... and that scares me...

And... And...

I dunno... I've decided to continue using this saw until/if I outgrow it I guess.

It's funny you mention the fence as I've been fighting the urge to ask when you were going to upgrade. I made the Biesemeyer copy for my '55 craftsman about 15 years ago or so and its one of the best improvements to shop equipment I've ever made.

As an aside, back in college I got tangled up in a table saw one of my first times using one due to lack of experience and some misjudgment. But, your neighbor proves that even years of experience are no guarantee of safety. BE CAREFUL!

 

[Stuart in MN]

Well done!

I have a 1970s era Craftsman contractor saw, with a similar big hole in the back where the drive belt runs out to the motor. I've often pondered how to seal that hole up to minimize dust as well, but I haven't come up with anything either. Maybe some sort of flexible rubber boot would work.

 

[Ryan]

Well done!

I have a 1970s era Craftsman contractor saw, with a similar big hole in the back where the drive belt runs out to the motor. I've often pondered how to seal that hole up to minimize dust as well, but I haven't come up with anything either. Maybe some sort of flexible rubber boot would work.

The way to do it if you were so inclined would be to create a plate for both 90 and 45-degree cuts... and then go without for anything other than those two cuts.

 

[rlitman]

First off, awesome! I really like how that worked out. It's beautiful, and has a lot of potential.

Now for a few comments and questions:

That cam/snail shaped fingerboard looks like a great idea. What is it?

You made a comment about the thickness of the plywood for the spacer being a little too thin (and I'm not quite sure how you dealt with that). FYI, for an outfeed table, it is ok if the saw table sits a little higher than the outfeed, but is not ok for the outfeed to be higher than the saw table. Basically, it is like the table insert, where the front should be a little under the table height, and the back should be a little proud. You don't want an edge for a board to catch on.

I really LOVE that idea of gluing blue tape back to back. You've made double sided painter's tape. It would be great if that came right on a roll...

Last, about dust collection. You could make a panel that closes up most of that rear opening (leaving ample space around the belt). Then, your dust collection will have some suction, and will work much better. Next project?

 

[gahrajmahal]

As far as the chatter when cutting your groove, I refer to this diagram to remind me about directions when routing as I always forget. It has something to do with "conventional milling" and "climb milling". Machinists terms your awesome fabricating friends can fill you in about. Generally with chatter, I would probably reduce the depth.



My Un-**** plastic bucket sawdust collector and plywood stand for my new Bosch table saw with soft start motor. Smooth and quiet, set at a good height for outfeed to a folding plastic table.



There it is hiding under my shelving unit. Heavy, but not too heavy that I cannot lift it into the back of my Ridgeline when I take my show on the road.



I would LOVE to have the space for a CNC router unit. For now I plan to go to the many Maker Spaces in town to try out a few projects.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Ryan:
(2) items...
Excellent video, content and production.
How do I get you into a fine Legacy Industrial t-shirt for your next video?

 

[rlitman]

As far as the chatter when cutting your groove, I refer to this diagram to remind me about directions when routing as I always forget. It has something to do with "conventional milling" and "climb milling". Machinists terms your awesome fabricating friends can fill you in about. Generally with chatter, I would probably reduce the depth...

That diagram applies to edge cutting, and to using a hand held router to cut a slot. But doesn't apply to a CNC machine slot cutting.

I'd agree that reducing depth of cut would probably stop the chatter.

Just confirming (I'm sure it does), but that cutter has two flutes, right? That's critical for slot cutting.

 

[Ryan]

That diagram applies to edge cutting, and to using a hand held router to cut a slot. But doesn't apply to a CNC machine slot cutting.

I'd agree that reducing depth of cut would probably stop the chatter.

Just confirming (I'm sure it does), but that cutter has two flutes, right? That's critical for slot cutting.

Correct.

It's a up/down compression bit... Which a lot of guys use to get good clean cuts on both sides of the piece. The problem is, your first cut has be deeper than the the initial up cut part of the bit for the idea to work. Given that, here are my cutting parameters on the 3/4" stuff:

Router Speed ~ 16,500 RPM (seems high, but I got really bad chatter if I went any lower)
Feed Rate: 90 ipm

Pass #1: .26 (the up cut portion of the bit ends at .24)
Pass #2: .38
Pass #3: .52
Pass #4: .65
Pass #5: .722

These setting finally worked "ok" for me... but I still had a little chatter. It would increase if I went any direction with the parameters.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

and... how does it work?
"I don't really know because I don't have a dust collection system."
That was a GREAT laugh out loud moment. Thank you.

 

[jd_1138]

Beautiful work as always Ryan. That saw is superb. Maybe a sort of shroud/dust cloth cover over the back would keep the dust down back there.

You have the coolest cars! Best video background ever.

 

[SuperCat]

Another excellent video in the can, I really enjoyed it. I know these videos take a lot of time to plan, film, and edit, so I wanted to say "Thank You."
It would have been easier to cut and bend a piece of scrap sheetmetal, but this is so much more interesting and has a classic look. Nicely done.
Also, I have to agree, sweet eye candy in the background.

 

[Git]

Interesting video and your project turned out nice

I would suggest you try some thin, double-sided carpet tape instead of the superglue.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1EHK0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[ambenz]

Cool informative video piece, you definitely missed your calling to be the next Bob Villa type host....or maybe by being here, you didn't....and it is to our benefit!
Anyway, what's really gonna pop your bubble is when you realize you want to move the motor under the saw base so you can park your saw close to the wall for more walking space around the table and garage, when not in use.
That is my current issue with my saw as the motor is not allowing me almost 2 feet or usable space when I am storing it up against the wall.
I plan on changing up the motor mount and sawdust collection so it is all under the saw using thin ply walls and some metal brackets to mount the motor.
Your video is motivating me to act on some of my issues I been thinking about with my saw.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[Showkey]

2P10 rocks.........have tried several industrial grade CA glues some at 2-3 times the price of 2P. I am a convert

 

[Ryan]

Interesting video and your project turned out nice

I would suggest you try some thin, double-sided carpet tape instead of the superglue.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1EHK0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

This stuff doesn't work all that well unfortunately. It's either so sticky that the residue is a pain in the *** to deal with... or it's not sticky enough.

 

[Ryan]

Cool informative video piece, you definitely missed your calling to be the next Bob Villa type host....or maybe by being here, you didn't....and it is to our benefit!
Anyway, what's really gonna pop your bubble is when you realize you want to move the motor under the saw base so you can park your saw close to the wall for more walking space around the table and garage, when not in use.
That is my current issue with my saw as the motor is not allowing me almost 2 feet or usable space when I am storing it up against the wall.
I plan on changing up the motor mount and sawdust collection so it is all under the saw using thin ply walls and some metal brackets to mount the motor.
Your video is motivating me to act on some of my issues I been thinking about with my saw.
Thanks for sharing!

Ohhh... And I actually **** at this video stuff. I prefer still photography and writing... It's just sooo damned time consuming to edit these videos. I'm not a real out going person and I'm super self conscious... so it takes me hours to do a simple voice over.

So. Bad.

 

[jd_1138]

Ohhh... And I actually **** at this video stuff. I prefer still photography and writing... It's just sooo damned time consuming to edit these videos. I'm not a real out going person and I'm super self conscious... so it takes me hours to do a simple voice over.

So. Bad.

I think most people loathe hearing and seeing themselves on video unless they're a super extrovert like an actor. But you're good on video, no worries.

You could probably find a skilled GJ fan locally to edit the videos for free or cheap. Someone savvy in mechanical things and tools would need that knowledge to edit your videos.

 

[slodat]

Ohhh... And I actually **** at this video stuff. I prefer still photography and writing... It's just sooo damned time consuming to edit these videos. I'm not a real out going person and I'm super self conscious... so it takes me hours to do a simple voice over.

So. Bad.

I really like your style and relate to your work process. I have a big CNC router in my shop and I've done similar projects to learn the machine. To me, it is the only way to learn. Great job on the video. I enjoy them!

I had an old Unisaw for years. I did all I could to seal it up for dust collection and finally succumbed to a SawStop. I could not be happier with the SawStop. It is far and wide a better machine..

 

[Ryan]

I had an old Unisaw for years. I did all I could to seal it up for dust collection and finally succumbed to a SawStop. I could not be happier with the SawStop. It is far and wide a better machine..

Yeah... I've pretty much decided that when I outgrow this little saw, I'm gonna go with a sawstop. After watching my neighbor deal with his injury, I just can't reconcile the idea of doing something vintage just cuz it's cooler.

 

[slodat]

Yeah... I've pretty much decided that when I outgrow this little saw, I'm gonna go with a sawstop. After watching my neighbor deal with his injury, I just can't reconcile the idea of doing something vintage just cuz it's cooler.

I fought this exact thing for several years. My seventh grade wood shop class had a Unisaw in it. Ironically, I have acquired a few other machines similar to that wood shop. Anyway, when I decided to step up from a contractor's saw, I found an old Unisaw. I gave it a thorough going through and put it into service. It was a bit of a sad moment when I sold it. I got to the point where I realized it just wasn't worth the risk. AND.. the SawStop is an amazing saw. Much better than my old Unisaw. I highly recommend the SawStop. I have the 5HP ICS with their outfeed table. It is a treat to use.

I have a lot of dust collection stuff in my shop thread that you may find interesting..

 

[shephd]

I might as well start thinking about a SawStop. My neighbor, a way more experienced woodworker than me, just recently damn near cut his hand off with his table saw... and that scares me...

And... And...

I dunno... I've decided to continue using this saw until/if I outgrow it I guess.

Ryan, I'm an fan of the Unisaw, I have two. One from 1947. And a cast iron base Delta jointer. But I also have two kids. I'm not doing a ton of woodworking these days, but my math says I'd rather spend the $3k on a SawStop than have to take my kid to the ER. It's a lot cheaper than a finger or a hand for any of us.