is brushless that much better in cordless tools?

[Snakebyt]

My craftsman C3 driver is giving me problems, the led lights stay on all the time draining the battery
https://www.craftsman.com/products/...3-19-2-volt-lithium-ion-1-4-impact-driver-kit


i am looking at replacing with one of these

https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CABLE-2-Tool-20-Volt-Max-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Combo-Kit/50074325

or brushless
https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CAB...m-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-Combo-Kit/1000330539


wondering if the brushless is worth 40% more cost? Is the brushless going to be more powerful? or just last longer?

any input on what set would be better?

 

[rlitman]

More powerful: probably not.
Last longer: possibly, as there are no brushes to wear out.

If you really beat on your tools, brushless has some advantages. It gets you longer runtime on a battery, and runs cooler. I've seen brushed drills burn out from overuse, where a brushless would just keep on going.

 

[PhysicsDude]

Brushless motors are better, but not 40% better, especially if you don't use them professionally.

For the Porter Cable kits you linked to, I'd definitely get the cheaper brushed one.

 

[Snakebyt]

well i will be using on a daily basis pretty much... but my C3 lasted over 2 years

 

[C.L S2000]

you can always just rebuild and swap out the brushes if it does fail at that later time ?

 

[Voi]

I don't think having a brushless motor is a huge issue for an impact driver since the brushless ones are getting borderline too powerful anyways (breaking socket adapters and bits). The caveat being if they come with more advanced electronics and therefore speed control then the brushless version may be desirable regardless of the power. I don't think that's an issue with the models you're looking at. For what it is worth, I have preferred the trigger speed control on impact drivers with brushed motors that I have used.

I do notice and appreciate the increased power of my one brushless drill, however.

The biggest jump in performance I've seen from brushless motors has been in my grinders, circular saw and reciprocating saw. I have other brushless tools that I really like but I've never used a brushed, cordless equivalent so I can't make a comparison.

Short answer. If I found myself having to re-build my cordless tool collection I wouldn't worry myself with the drill and impact driver being brushed or brushless unless they also came with more advanced speed settings I felt I needed or something like the self tapping screw function found on some drivers.

 

[neophyte]

you can always just rebuild and swap out the brushes if it does fail at that later time ?

Not all cordless tools have replaceable brushes. While replaceable brushes have become more common a number of cordless tools are still built with premade motors that have the motor brushes permanently mounted inside the motor. The motors are not made to be dissasembled, so when the brushes wear out, it’s necessary to replace the whole motor. The advantage to this is the motors are usually more affordable types, although more expensive than a set of brushes.

 

[neophyte]

The advantage to a brushless motor is that there aren’t brushes constantly wearing against the motor rotor. Because of this, you don’t loose any efficiancy due to brush friction, which in theory means more power from the motor, and/or longer runtime from the battery. The lack of brush friction also means the motor heats up less, and the motor also functions more efficiently because of this, and there’s less chance of overheating the insulation on the motor windings. Some brushed motors I’ve seen that are meant for heavy use have had extra heat sinking materials added to the motor to increase efficiency.

The disadvantage to brushless motors, is that the require digital controllers and sensors, which add more complexity, and therefore more areas were the motor can fail. If the sensors fail the motor might not start, or might not have speed control. If the circuit board gets fried somehow there can also be problems. Brushless motors are also newer designs so not all the bugs have been worked out.

 

[M6erfan]

The advantage to a brushless motor is that there aren’t brushes constantly wearing against the motor rotor. Because of this, you don’t loose any efficiancy due to brush friction, which in theory means more power from the motor, and/or longer runtime from the battery. The lack of brush friction also means the motor heats up less, and the motor also functions more efficiently because of this, and there’s less chance of overheating the insulation on the motor windings. Some brushed motors I’ve seen that are meant for heavy use have had extra heat sinking materials added to the motor to increase efficiency.

The disadvantage to brushless motors, is that the require digital controllers and sensors, which add more complexity, and therefore more areas were the motor can fail. If the sensors fail the motor might not start, or might not have speed control. If the circuit board gets fried somehow there can also be problems. Brushless motors are also newer designs so not all the bugs have been worked out.

This should be a sticky somewhere

 

[Unruh]

This should be a sticky somewhere

Yeah, that was a great answer. I recently asked if I should upgrade to brushless and was told to buy a couple more batteries.

 

[evercl92]

For the price point you're at, I think this is a better option:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...5Ah-Batteries-Charger-and-Bag-R9602/205762719

In my experience, when I got my brushless set, there was a noticeable increase in power. My 9 year old was able to drill into concrete with the hammer drill, by herself.
My previous brushed drill wouldn't have been able to do that.

I agree that the power of the impact's have gotten a bit crazy. The higher model impacts offer power selection toggles so that you can help prevent over-driving.

 

[theoldwizard1]

More powerful: probably not.
Last longer: possibly, as there are no brushes to wear out.

They ARE more powerful, if they have a geared drive system (drill, impact, ratchet) because the motor spins at a higher RPM and then gets geared don more than a brushed motor. (Look at the brushed vs brushless Milwaukee M12 3/8" ratchet. The head is bigger to accommodate more gear reduction.)

Better electronics help with battery life.

Segue - Watching a YouTube video recently, the guy had a problem with an M18 Fuel 1/2" drill "over heating" and shutting down because he was drilling 1" holes with an auger bit in PT wood. He said it was warm, but far from "hot".

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't think having a brushless motor is a huge issue for an impact driver since the brushless ones are getting borderline too powerful anyways (breaking socket adapters and bits).

Which is why I bought an M12 Fuel 3/8" impact and then the adapter to 1/4" hex !

 

[theoldwizard1]

The disadvantage to brushless motors, is that the require digital controllers and sensors, which add more complexity, and therefore more areas were the motor can fail. If the sensors fail the motor might not start, or might not have speed control. If the circuit board gets fried somehow there can also be problems. Brushless motors are also newer designs so not all the bugs have been worked out.

Brushless has been around long enough that the bugs have been worked out a long time ago ! Yes, there is some none trivial electronics, but they have been around long enough that they are pretty darn robust !

 

[Tallpilot]

Which is why I bought an M12 Fuel 3/8" impact and then the adapter to 1/4" hex !

Exactly. When a 1/4" bit socket or adapter breaks on a 1/2" impact it isn't because it's too powerful. It's because you are using the wrong tool for the job. It's as silly as using a 10lb sledge to drive 3/4" finishing nails. It might work if you don't have anything else but that doesn't make it right.

 

[tarbellb]

I would go Ridgid over Porter Cable easy.

I would also go brushless over brushed.

 

[Skin]

In my experience the electronics, trigger, or gearbox will die long before the brushes wear out. Brushless is mostly marketing. New technology is welcomed but I'm not going to pay a premium for it.

 

[PhysicsDude]

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that the solid state control circuits that power brushless motors are more reliable than most of the conventional trigger mechanisms used in brushed tools (yes I realize nowadays many if not most brushed tools also use solid state variable trigger mechanisms).

Less heat in the motor is a great advantage too. Most of the drill failures I've seen either involved something broken in the trigger electronics, or the motor burning up. I believe brushless tools are more reliable in both of these categories.

I recently was drilling some holes in 3cm granite, and I first used my brushed drill. It worked OK but got so hot after 1 hole that I had to put on gloves or it was too hot to hold comfortably.

I then used my brushless drill and the drill case was barely warm to the touch after several holes.

That said, brushless motors aren't the end all be all of cordless tools. They're better, nicer, more efficient, etc., but overall don't really perform that much better than brushed motors in most day-to-day uses.

 

[Mr_B]

In my experience the electronics, trigger, or gearbox will die long before the brushes wear out. Brushless is mostly marketing. New technology is welcomed but I'm not going to pay a premium for it.

+1 to this, brushless is good but not worth a massive premium .

 

[finn]

I’ve got a brushed Bosch and a brushless Dewalt impact driver.

Both have more durability and stamina then I do at this point.

The Dewalt has a little better battery life, but upsizing the Bosch battery would take care of that If I really considered it an issue.

Handle the various tools, with a battery installed to see how the balance and ergonomics feel to you.

Pick the one that fits.

 

[Wamsutta]

If looks mean anything, the brushed set looks more professional. The brushless set has too much red on them; makes them look gimmicky in my opinion. I'd say $99 for two tools plus $11.95 for the two year extended warranty is a heck of a deal. I'm surprised by how inexpensive these battery tools have gotten.

 

[rlitman]

They ARE more powerful, if they have a geared drive system (drill, impact, ratchet) because the motor spins at a higher RPM and then gets geared don more than a brushed motor. (Look at the brushed vs brushless Milwaukee M12 3/8" ratchet. The head is bigger to accommodate more gear reduction.)

Better electronics help with battery life.

Segue - Watching a YouTube video recently, the guy had a problem with an M18 Fuel 1/2" drill "over heating" and shutting down because he was drilling 1" holes with an auger bit in PT wood. He said it was warm, but far from "hot".

I bought the first generation Milwaukee Fuel M18 1/2" drill when it came out (2604-20) six years ago. At the time, it actually advertised just a little less torque than the quadripolar brushed model it replaced.

Yes, brushless motors spin faster (by necessity). But that is because they have hardly any usable torque at low speeds. An extra layer of planetary gears in the stack makes up for the difference, but in the end, a drill's power mostly comes from the battery platform, and the difference in performance for a given size of tool will be negligible.

That first gen drill died on me a week ago (6 years old; 5 year warranty). The motor is just fine. A #$%^@$% plastic ring gear in the gearbox ate itself after I augered enough 1-1/4" holes in 100 year old floor joists to fill a trash can, as part of my PEX plumbing project. But I can't say the drill got hot.

Last week, I bought the second generation of this drill (2704-20). The maximum speed is a little higher, but the top speed in gear 1 is the same, so I think there may be a little extra reduction to give it perhaps 10% more torque.

 

[Raisedonadeere]

The longer run time on paper is significant but in practice the importance varies with you and your use. I have been using the brushless circular saw for a while now and it is simply fantastic. Just keep picking it up to make a cut, ripping plywood or cross cutting deck lumber it just keeps on going. Never have to stop work to deal with batteries. On a busy cutting day just recharge during lunch break and keep going. The brushless surge impact driver works out the same. I really enjoy that and the extra cost is worth it to me. If you never run a battery down or wind up with not enough batteries to keep going then you might not think it is worth it.

I am purchasing a Fuel mid torque to drive 200 8” timber screws in rafter header on a barn shed project. In years past I would have been doing this by hand and then later with corded driver. Now I can to same thing as corded with the new brushless tools. After many years of getting along with pre brushless tools I don’t even question the extra cost.

The claimed longivity is not much of a factor to me. Most of my cordless tools held up pretty well. But runtime and battery management was always causing me to want better and now better is here.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I am still using my old stuff. While nice, brushless isn't attractive for color, battery life, or more power. I was able to get some work done with 7.2 volt nicad tools. I'm not scared of electronics or replacing brushes. ( I do wish two or three sizes would cover every tool in the world.)

It's the smaller diameter is easier to grip.

 

[My Old Tools]

I'm loving my M18 Fuel brushless drill/driver. Head and shoulders better than the 18V Makita LiON it replaced. Better battery life, better charge times, much more torque.

 

[crewchief888]

i wont buy another brushed cordless tool...

just my $0.02

 

[Snakebyt]

I ended up buying the brushed set for $99, and a 2 year extended plan for $12. Havent had a chance to really try them out yet, but i know from what little i have used them, that they are far more powerful than the C3 that they replaced

 

[tarbellb]

Shouldve just bought the Ridgids....brushless and Lifetime Warranty for $10+.