Buried Propane Tank In Driveway

[pamike]

Due to my site, and the setback requirements from a building the only place I can really set a buried propane tank would be in my driveway/turnaround area. I looked on the net and I cant really find much information on burying tanks in a driveway application. Anyone ever do it? I am sure I could make some sort of heavy duty lid/riser if needed. Thoughts?? Input?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Plows and delivery trucks would be one thing that comes to mind. Could be marked, but....

 

[Kaizen]

No way I would do it. Any issues with the tank and you have to redo the driveway. Will you own the tank? Up here the propane co owns it so their rules


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[pamike]

Yes, I would own the tank. Tank would be under stone drive at my barn/shop. I own a mini excavator and a tacked skidsteer so any issues with a buried tank can easily be addressed. My main issue is the lid/fill area having a lid that will support driving over.

 

[Richard Cranium]

the lid would also be my concern.

 

[yeldogt]

I was told no to drive over. Even right next to drive has issues ....setback rules apply, if on same plane as drive -- need bollards.

 

[walrus]

Yes, I would own the tank. Tank would be under stone drive at my barn/shop. I own a mini excavator and a tacked skidsteer so any issues with a buried tank can easily be addressed. My main issue is the lid/fill area having a lid that will support driving over.

Gasoline tanks are driven over all the time. They have access to fill tanks via a manhole and cover. I suggest you start with a propane supplier. I'd also consider a concrete slab over the tank

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[Lelandwelds]

Gasoline tanks are driven over all the time. They have access to fill tanks via a manhole and cover. I suggest you start with a propane supplier. I'd also consider a concrete slab over the tank

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I used to hold a propane fillers license and studied for higher licenses. Regulatory rules are riddled with inconsistencies. Generally, different equals bad. All the regs and rulings are online, at least in Texas. I think even hard copies of the test materials was free.

Buried propane tanks are bad enough. I wouldn't do anything weird in case an unrelated event draws scrutiny.

 

[walrus]

I used to hold a propane fillers license and studied for higher licenses. Regulatory rules are riddled with inconsistencies. Generally, different equals bad. All the regs and rulings are online, at least in Texas. I think even hard copies of the test materials was free.

Buried propane tanks are bad enough. I wouldn't do anything weird in case an unrelated event draws scrutiny.

What scrutiny? The tank has to be in to current code. No supplier in there right mind will fill it otherwise. Buried tanks are all over the place, if they caused issues do you suppose they would still bury them? Call a propane supplier. If the poster was in Maine I'd give him a telephone number.

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[rsanter]

Ask the manufacturer of the tank.
In general once you get a few feet underground, the added load from driving a regular vehicle over the ground on top of it becomes negligible verses the load of the ground itself

See what the manufacturer says. You could always do a vault with removable steel or concrete cover. Then there is no added load on the tank

Bob

 

[larry4406]

One of the communities where I built new homes had buried propane tanks.

The approved buried propane tank permit and site plan from the county had stay away distances of the tank from driveways, house, property corners, etc.

So, I would also check with your County on what they allow. Me personally I would not put it under a driveway.

 

[pamike]

One of the communities where I built new homes had buried propane tanks.

The approved buried propane tank permit and site plan from the county had stay away distances of the tank from driveways, house, property corners, etc.

So, I would also check with your County on what they allow. Me personally I would not put it under a driveway.

Township could care less. I didn't even need a building permit for the 40 x 82 building. More interested in hearing from anyone that has done this. The tank wouldn't get driven over on a regular basis...

 

[rlitman]

One of the communities where I built new homes had buried propane tanks.

The approved buried propane tank permit and site plan from the county had stay away distances of the tank from driveways, house, property corners, etc...

Just because that permit had stay away distances, doesn't mean that it is required in all situations.

...The tank wouldn't get driven over on a regular basis...

How does that change anything?

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Ask the manufacturer of the tank.
In general once you get a few feet underground, the added load from driving a regular vehicle over the ground on top of it becomes negligible verses the load of the ground itself

See what the manufacturer says. You could always do a vault with removable steel or concrete cover. Then there is no added load on the tank

Bob

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I recently ran the calculations for a new gas main crossing under a railroad and it was enlightening how much the loading drops off as bury depth increases. BUT...that DOES mean it has to have cover over it. I would hope the tank manufacturer has already done these calculations and can provide you with a minimum bury depth.

Or...they may tell you "no way".

That's why you need to check with them.

Phil

 

[59 wagon man]

look up us foundry .they make all kinds of traffic bearing manholes and lids

 

[yeldogt]

In my area of PA .. it's not a weight problem. The tank can take the weight of the car -- it's the setback and protection of the fill port.

A vehicle is spark producing so it has to be so many feet away and I was told the fill port had to be protected from direct water submersion so it can't be flat with the driveway.

 

[Adk Mike]

What’s a matter with the front yard ? Stick it in the middle of the yard. I have installed a thousand of these things. Even thou legal in the driveway. The risk of a snowplow hitting it is too high.
4 100 gallon tanks hold the same amount of gas and can go against the house. Not ideal but you can do it.

 

[pamike]

look up us foundry .they make all kinds of traffic bearing manholes and lids

Thanks will check them out

What’s a matter with the front yard ? Stick it in the middle of the yard. I have installed a thousand of these things. Even thou legal in the driveway. The risk of a snowplow hitting it is too high.
4 100 gallon tanks hold the same amount of gas and can go against the house. Not ideal but you can do it.

I would pour a pad in the driaveway that supports the manhole cover to the fill port. Fill port would be below grade.

In my area of PA .. it's not a weight problem. The tank can take the weight of the car -- it's the setback and protection of the fill port.
Yup, that's what I am thinking. Fill port is the sticking point.

Water infiltration into "manhole cover" may be the main issue...

 

[walrus]

In my area of PA .. it's not a weight problem. The tank can take the weight of the car -- it's the setback and protection of the fill port.

A vehicle is spark producing so it has to be so many feet away and I was told the fill port had to be protected from direct water submersion so it can't be flat with the driveway.

Yes, I just talked to an installer, tank can be in driveway, has to be 2 ft down but fill has to above grade and protected so it can't be driven over. So you could have part of tank in drive and fill in grass beside the driveway protected by new Jersey barrier or curbing.

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[larry4406]

Just because that permit had stay away distances, doesn't mean that it is required in all situations.

Hence the follow on statement of mine that you carefully omitted from the quote that said "check with your county". Meanwhile the OP says no permits needed so he is on his own...

 

[pamike]

Yes, I just talked to an installer, tank can be in driveway, has to be 2 ft down but fill has to above grade and protected so it can't be driven over. So you could have part of tank in drive and fill in grass beside the driveway protected by new Jersey barrier or curbing.

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You pretty much nailed it.
Talked to a local company today. They were a little unsure but basically said the loading on the tank isn't the issue, it would be the fill point. I explained the concept of a heavy manhole lid. They agreed that it could be done so that the fill point wouldn't be damaged but stated that they would be more concerned with a vehicle driving over it would be an ignition source if the tank was leaking. They also stated that they would be concerned that the heavy sealed lid would make a sealed chamber that would hold gas is it leaked out of the tank. They basically said you could do it but when you went to fill the tank the delivery driver may refuse to fill it.
I decided the concept of ignition due to a vehicle of explosion due to the heavy sealed cover was enough risk for me to abandon the idea....

 

[yeldogt]

You pretty much nailed it.
Talked to a local company today. They were a little unsure but basically said the loading on the tank isn't the issue, it would be the fill point. I explained the concept of a heavy manhole lid. They agreed that it could be done so that the fill point wouldn't be damaged but stated that they would be more concerned with a vehicle driving over it would be an ignition source if the tank was leaking. They also stated that they would be concerned that the heavy sealed lid would make a sealed chamber that would hold gas is it leaked out of the tank. They basically said you could do it but when you went to fill the tank the delivery driver may refuse to fill it.
I decided the concept of ignition due to a vehicle of explosion due to the heavy sealed cover was enough risk for me to abandon the idea....

There are basic regulations -- go online ... every company around me has the same description .. layout map. State and local regulations on top of that. The problem you will have is getting it filled --- company "A" says they will fill your tank. "A" gets sold or "B" "C" has better rates and they say "no way"

All the companies around me in PA said they had to run the propane line -- need excavator on site when they bring tank ... they set tank with excavator and run lines to regulator (s). This is all new service. None of the companies would certify the installation w/o doing the connections/pipe for new lines. The top of tanks fill valve / vent has to be above any flood line on the property.

The bollards to protect the tank needed to be set into a concrete pad w/ concrete filled pipes ... it was as much $$ to build as the tank.

 

[Dragfluid]

Another issue you could have is, that big, heavy manhole cover getting full of freezing rain/sleet. Just when you need a delivery.

As far as it getting full of leaking gas, that's what the vent for the vault is for.

 

[59 wagon man]

check us foundry they have traffic bearing boxes and lids as small as 10" x 10" i believe that are not tight sealing at all .you can also check with ferguson waterworks i believe is the division that handles them. we use these for shutoff valves or cleanout fittings located in the middle of parking lots

 

[jade97]

All the companies around me in PA said they had to run the propane line -- need excavator on site when they bring tank ... they set tank with excavator and run lines to regulator (s). This is all new service. None of the companies would certify the installation w/o doing the connections/pipe for new lines. The top of tanks fill valve / vent has to be above any flood line on the property.

In my case (Berks County PA), the propane company delivered the tank and set it in the hole my builder dug, filled the tank, and left the line for my builder to run. They held the regulators hostage, because I did not have a "gas appliance" at the time.

3 years later, I had a generator installed and that company supplied regulators. I just got word from the gas company that they are sending me a check for the regulators I never received.

My underground 500 gal tank is buried in the backyard.

 

[Dragfluid]

This is interesting. I never thought that they buried them. Is the paint/coating any different than on an above grade tank?

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

This is interesting. I never thought that they buried them. Is the paint/coating any different than on an above grade tank?

Yes, you can only bury a propane tank that is rated for that use. I don't know of the tank itself is different, but the coating is. Had a 500 gallon one buried in my backyard in Central TX.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lelandwelds Regulatory rules are riddled with inconsistencies. Generally, different equals bad. All the regs and rulings are online, at least in Texas. I think even hard copies of the test materials was free.

Buried propane tanks are bad enough. I wouldn't do anything weird in case an unrelated event draws scrutiny.


What scrutiny? The tank has to be in to current code. No supplier in there right mind will fill it otherwise. Buried tanks are all over the place, if they caused issues do you suppose they would still bury them? Call a propane supplier. If the poster was in Maine I'd give him a telephone number.

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What did I mean by unrelated event? New owner next door thinks your weird tank is their business and calls every agency in the book when there is a natural gas leak five miles away. A utility setting a new pole drills into a high pressure gas line and kills everyone in an elementary school. Cathodic protection fails on an abandoned tank three states away and some turd wanting a higher office decides that you must pay through the nose "for our children". A gasoline transport driver falls asleep and kills 20 people during the Super Bowl.

Generally, it is risky to push the envelope with hazardous materials. Aim for something so common and routine the most **** desk jockey or laziest sheeple will have no interest in.

My only dislike on buried propane (other than cost) is you can't easily inspect the things.

 

[Lelandwelds]

This is interesting. I never thought that they buried them. Is the paint/coating any different than on an above grade tank?

The paint is different and , depending on size and service, some have cathodic protection. (Zincs or active electricity. ) They have different service lifetimes and inspections too.

My former employer had multiple locations and did installs for industrial accounts. The company's standard response for burial was "we don't do that". (My background is in DOT tanks so I just sorta remember stuff I didn't need for work.)

 

[walrus]

I wire propane dispensing stations on a regular basis. Did one this morning . They had probably 100 new tanks in the yard, 500s and 1000 gallons, half or so were above ground, half direct burial. If you can bury tanks in a freezing hell hole like Maine you can do it anywhere. Another benefit is warmer propane in the winter( because its warmer underground) means better vapor pressure.

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[Lelandwelds]

I wire propane dispensing stations on a regular basis. Did one this morning . They had probably 100 new tanks in the yard, 500s and 1000 gallons, half or so were above ground, half direct burial. If you can bury tanks in a freezing hell hole like Maine you can do it anywhere. Another benefit is warmer propane in the winter( because its warmer underground) means better vapor pressure.

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Mostly homes? Is it standard to hook up the gauge to wifi yet? That always struck me as an obvious "do".

"FREEZING HELLHOLE". I like that.

 

[yeldogt]

Because of the size required -- most people in my area bury. Typically 1k tanks ... doing two is not unheard of.

 

[walrus]

Mostly homes? Is it standard to hook up the gauge to wifi yet? That always struck me as an obvious "do".

"FREEZING HELLHOLE". I like that.

No homes, commercial operations. They do electronic monitoring of remaining product in tanks. Not sure if its wireless as some are fairly remote, I think its satellite? or maybe Cell?