Concerning Milwaukee battery speculation

[Fbmoose48]

http://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-tool-the-next-breakthrough-nps18-teaser/

This could be concerning. After 10 years of the M18 platform is Milwaukee about to leave us behind and release a new battery environment?

 

[Real_PhillBert]

If you'll allow me to speculate wildly, I'd say that it's probably a new higher voltage line like dewalts 60V line. 36V or 72V would seem the most likely.

Very interesting though, I'll have to keep my eyes on this.

 

[rmsg0040]

If they did it will be bad for them and the consumer which I don't think they want

 

[garagelogician]

http://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-tool-the-next-breakthrough-nps18-teaser/

This could be concerning. After 10 years of the M18 platform is Milwaukee about to leave us behind and release a new battery environment?

I seriously doubt they are going to move away from the M18 platform. I think this is going to be an expansion of it (multi-battery and/or higher capacity cells). There could be "new" M18 batteries that will work on current gen tools, but new high-demand tools that will require either multiple batteries and/or new batteries. So you may not be able to use your old batteries on some of the new big boy toys, but the new batteries will continue to work on the current tools.

No reason to panic yet.

 

[xela456]

Their higher ups said recently that all battery platforms from now on will ALWAYS be backwards compatible.

 

[kythri]

If they were abandoning the M18 platform, they wouldn't advertise "The next breakthrough" right next to the M18 logo.

 

[LXCam]

Milwaukee walking away from the M18 Tool and battery line would absolutely destroy their reputation. It ain't gonna happen.

 

[DFB]

Probably just a monster 12AH XC battery

 

[ocloc24]

It clearly states the next breakthrough IN M18 line. Most likely either dual battery or bigger cells for larger capacity 18V. It is possible they'll do something similar to flexvolt, I don't think it would alienate customers really. Hopefully they'll announce it soon, theyve had that teaser posted for over a month now

 

[ngk22r]

If I recall the DeWalt 60v batteries work with their 20v tools...

 

[matt_i]

It would be easy to get backwards compatible if its a multiple of 18.

"Old " tools would run the cells in parallel for more amp hours

"New" tools would run the cells in series for higher voltage.

All by how the stabs are connected inside of the tool....

 

[Showkey]

Milwaukee walking away from the M18 Tool and battery line would absolutely destroy their reputation. It ain't gonna happen.

.

Not to mention there’s HUGE Boat load of money to made suppling batteries for the next 15-20 years.

 

[WWheeler]

Better hurry up and get all your Milwaukee cordless listed in the GJ classifieds while you can still get 10¢ on the dollar for it before Milwaukee makes it official that they are going to phase it all out like Dewalt did with their 28V line.

 

[Stuey]

http://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-tool-the-next-breakthrough-nps18-teaser/

This could be concerning. After 10 years of the M18 platform is Milwaukee about to leave us behind and release a new battery environment?

I am 99.9999999999% certain that they're not close to even the suggestion that they should move away from the M18 platform.

But I think that a higher voltage solution is in the works. It should be, if they don't want to be left in the dust. A year ago they were still working on things. Now, they should be ready to announce developments, and maybe even some new tools.

There are 3 ways other pro-level brands have introduced higher-voltage tools.

1) 2 batteries in series with complete compatibility (or near complete)
2) Switching battery pack with one-way compatibility
3) Completely different platform with zero compatibility

Option 3? Milwaukee all but abandoned their M28 platform. I don't see them launching a new platform independent and separate of M18.

Option 1? That would allow them to remain near fully compatible with existing M18 tools and system components.

Option 2? I think they are clearly opposed to this, because of the 1-way compatibility. Dewalt FlexVolt and Hitachi MultiVolt are downwards-compatible, but not upwards. You can use the higher voltage battery packs with the 20V Max and 18V tools, but you cannot use 20V Max or 18V batteries with the higher voltage tools.

Festool has a cordless saw that works with 2 battery packs. Equip it with 1 battery, and it works in "turtle" mode. Equip it with 2, and it works in "hare" mode. It would be interesting if Milwaukee does something like this, but I don't think they will.

But, any developments that they announce will definitely be building upon M18, and NOT replacing it.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I think we'll see some higher capacity 12 and 18 volt batteries (8.0ah/12.0ah), as well as multi-volt tools like the FlexVolt. Maybe a table saw or mower that runs on two M18 batteries.

Whatever it is, I'm sure it will be to take advantage of the M18 system, not replace and destroy it.

 

[dnschmidt]

Almost certainly they're going to do the same as Makita does and introduce a line of two battery tools. This makes the most sense and causes no compatibility issues. I have both the Makita and Milwaukee systems and I like the double battery Makita tools a lot. I have their cordless track saw which is a double battery tool and their leaf blower which is way better than the 18V Milwaukee Fuel leaf blower.

 

[BMack37]

I hope it's a X2 platform. Everyone should have stolen Makita's idea as soon as Makita announced it.

 

[6PTsocket]

Probably just a monster 12AH XC battery [emoji38]

For the same reason cars went from 6 volt to 12 electrical systems in the 50s it gets impractical to keep going to higher current capacity batteries for more powerful devices. The high current devices need ever heavier wire in the motor and everywhere else. It is much easier to build higher voltage devices for more power. It us why we only go to 15 or 20 anps on 120 volts AC before switching to 230 volts. Many devices are fine for 18 volt operation or even 12 volts and it makes no sense to abandon the lower voltage. Nobody needs a compact drill driver that uses a 40 volt battery and weighs a ton

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[BMack37]

There's no way they increase Ah without going with 20700 cells...which is also a strong possibility.

 

[matt_i]

The other issue is this: the more cells that are ganged in series to up the voltage, the more important it becomes that the cells are initially balanced in individual voltage, and remain so with solid chemistry.

A mechanical analogy would be a tug of war, if someone gets tired and pulls less, the person behind cannot make it up by pulling more. Because the "rope" is a circular, its essentially limited by the lowest common denominator.

So while it might seem like its a race to pump out a line of higher voltage tools, in my thinking its really a race to pump out a battery pack that starts balanced and stays balanced. If the batteries go sour quickly and require a lot of expensive replacements, consumers are going vote with their wallets away from that line of tools.

 

[jonshonda]

Along with a new battery platform, the tools will now be pink.

-Dewalt

 

[Stuey]

there's no way they increase ah without going with 20700 cells...which is also a strong possibility.

21700

 

[DFB]

Along with a new battery platform, the tools will now be pink.

-Dewalt

 

[BMack37]

21700

thanks, it was late

 

[theoldwizard1]

My guts says, you will see some twin M18 tools like a chain saw, a worm drive circular saw and maybe a 12" compound miter saw. Possibly a lawn mower or other outdoor power tools.

I don't think they will walk away from the 18650 cells. These are still the "best bang for the buck" and Sanyo/Panasonic has some real competition from LG that is keeping the costs down.

 

[Strouty]

The funny part is that the 28 volt tools were great, the batteries were great, I don’t know why they didn’t just keep moving forward with them. That being said, I sold the last of my 28 volt tools last fall, it was a sad day.

 

[BikerDad]

I don't think they will walk away from the 18650 cells. These are still the "best bang for the buck" and Sanyo/Panasonic has some real competition from LG that is keeping the costs down.

They will. 18650 is obsolescent for contractor/industrial grade power tools. Not obsolete yet, but the writing is on the wall, especially with a massive battery factory sitting in Nevada churning out 21700 batteries far quicker than the yobs can assemble the cars they're supposed to go into... That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Expect to see Milwaukee announce that they're going to a higher capacity AND the battery packs will be Made in America.

 

[malibu101]

I have used Milwaukee tools for many years. I am biased. I like them.
I have some old 18V ni-cad tools that I still use and they work well.

I had 2 batteries rebuilt a few years ago and they work fine. A bit cheaper than OEM
BUT
You have to appreciate a company that still sells/supports the batteries to a model line they have not made in years.
My batteries- https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Batteries-and-Chargers/Other/48-11-2230
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...r-Select-Milwaukee-Tools-48-11-2230/100014586

 

[BMack37]

They will. 18650 is obsolescent for contractor/industrial grade power tools. Not obsolete yet, but the writing is on the wall, especially with a massive battery factory sitting in Nevada churning out 21700 batteries far quicker than the yobs can assemble the cars they're supposed to go into... That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Expect to see Milwaukee announce that they're going to a higher capacity AND the battery packs will be Made in America.

It's going to happen, it's either this year or next. Aren't the new slim Dewalt packs the 20700 cells? So one would reason that Milwaukee would be getting the 21700 cells as soon as possible.

They might even not raise the price a lot but limit the free battery promos to the older packs, which would allow them to keep the margins close despite the more expensive cells.

 

[DFB]

Heh

https://toolcraze.net/rumor-milwaukee-12-0-ah-battery-announcement-in-june-2018/

https://toolcraze.net/dewalt-flexvolt-12-0-ah-dcb612-battery-announced/

 

[theoldwizard1]

They will. 18650 is obsolescent for contractor/industrial grade power tools. Not obsolete yet, but the writing is on the wall, especially with a massive battery factory sitting in Nevada churning out 21700 batteries far quicker than the yobs can assemble the cars they're supposed to go into... That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

Your logic is REASONABLE ! The problem is, Milwaukee need more VOLTAGE for bigger tools, not longer run time (although I am sure many would love a longer run time).

I have seen the Makita twin 18V worm gear drive saw. It looks sweet ! I am not certain that it would hold up to a guy who frames houses for a living or how much it weights compared to the "industry standard" (still Skill ?) worm gear drive saw.


CRAZY THOUGHT ! Is there a place for a 24V tools ? Twin M12s ????? I think M12 will be stuck with 18650 cells, because 3 of them fit nicely in a handle. Not sure about 21700.

 

[Tallpilot]

Really lots of possibilities for the M18 platform since there is logic in the battery pack. They could make a new pack that is compatible with the old tools but when it receives the correct single from a new tool it switches from groups of cells in parallel to groups of cells in series. More runtime in older tools; more voltage (torque, power, speed) in newer tools.

Table saws, miter saws, compressors are large and stationary enough that it is no big deal to put in two or three batteries. Two packs minimum to work; add a third to increase runtime?

I think apocalyptic calls for an end to the platform are pointless FUD. I am also sure they look at adoption rates to decide if a platform should be orphaned. Is there any doubt that M18 is their best seller and there is a very large installed base they know they would be foolish to irritate?

I like the ever improving tech. I know every few years I am going to have to replace the batteries anyway. It is more fun and easier to rationalize if I know the next battery I buy is better (higher capacity or lighter weight) than the one it replaced but all my old tools still work.

 

[BikerDad]

DeWalt has shown one path forward. Makita is showing another with double packs. The ability to have the battery itself control the voltage delivered means that Milwaukee can do a combination if they so choose, which is actually what DeWalt has done. There's one other consideration, and that's the actual physical interface and size of the packs. This is where the larger cells can be problematic on some tools. To "improve" the M18 platform means keeping the same physical interface, or creating one that's compatible. I'm gonna vote for "keeping". Not much can be done about the larger packs, although with MOST tools it won't matter much other than perhaps throwing off the balance a wee bit.

 

[PNWguy]

Their higher ups said recently that all battery platforms from now on will ALWAYS be backwards compatible.

If DeWalt had done that, I'd still be a customer. They had that gap when all the 20v stuff was available, but they wouldn't work with the older tools. I didn't want to buy more NiCads, and I ended up with Milwaukee instead of DeWalt.

It seems like a really bad idea to let a customer go.

 

[American Locomotive]

If DeWalt had done that, I'd still be a customer. They had that gap when all the 20v stuff was available, but they wouldn't work with the older tools. I didn't want to buy more NiCads, and I ended up with Milwaukee instead of DeWalt.

It seems like a really bad idea to let a customer go.

DeWalt has an adapter to use the 20V Max batteries on the older tools.

 

[PNWguy]

DeWalt has an adapter to use the 20V Max batteries on the older tools.

It wasn't available when the 20v tools initially went to market. There was a year or so gap.

 

[kctyphoon]

rumor has been out for a while that milwaukee is soon announcing a 12 amp hr pack, and a new cordless chainsaw.

fact also is - Milwaukee has a patent on a dual voltage pack. allow me to speculate - Makita has an adapter that will allow the user to apply dual 18v packs onto some 18v tools, thus "making them" 36 volts.. if Milwaukee were to announce a 12 amp hr pack - one could "speculate" that if they made a version of that pack a dual voltage pack where the "user could manually pick the voltage" you could swap from an 18v 12 amp hr, to a 36v 6.0amp hr pack.. if these packs were managed to fit inside the same size case as their current 9.0 - that might be a game changer for them.

mind you - this is all hearsay on my part.

 

[anndel]

Probably just a monster 12AH XC battery

or 180 volt flex (opposite of DeWalt's FlexVolt)

 

[dnschmidt]

From the electrical engineering point of view higher voltage makes more sense as you have less IR losses. Why make your motor windings out of thicker wire when you can use thinner wire and more voltage. I'm betting on the double battery packs like Makita uses. It just makes the most sense.

 

[IndyGarage]

The funny part is that the 28 volt tools were great, the batteries were great, I don’t know why they didn’t just keep moving forward with them. That being said, I sold the last of my 28 volt tools last fall, it was a sad day.

As Strouty says, they did it to the V18 and V28 tool owners 10 years ago when they didn't make those backwards compatible and hung those tool owners out to dry. They will do it again. They figured out they can force the customers to throw all their tools away every 10 years.

That's why I'm buying Makita now.