Steel prices...yikes
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Bamafan
Well-known member
I think it'll go back down.
After announcing that it would apply to all countries, President Trump has exempted countries accounting for 2/3rds of the imports. So they spiked a lot initially but should moderate.
But those expire next month...we'll see if anything changes.
After announcing that it would apply to all countries, President Trump has exempted countries accounting for 2/3rds of the imports. So they spiked a lot initially but should moderate.
But those expire next month...we'll see if anything changes.
6768rogues
Banned
Raw material is part of the cost. So are warehousing, transporation, overhead, profit, etc. A 25% tariff on SOME of the steel in the country makes the price of all steel go up by 40% to 50%. Someone is using the excuse of the tariff to make more money. I like money, too.
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
Tariffs increase the cost of the product in the end. The cost of building a car for example or any other consumable. This has repercussions on any product that a country has to export. But you can likely buy a Chinese or any other country’s vehicle or product that does not have the tariff priced into the steel. Doesn’t it make more sense to tariff the consumable coming in from out of country. Seems just down right illogical to me.
RWorth
Well-known member
I always buy extra so there is usually something in the shop I can use for small projects.
Check with your local recyclers, they may have some thing you can use.
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Schurkey
Well-known member
Bought two sheets of expanded steel last week. $160. I was very surprised. I was expecting half that.
SALIV8
Well-known member
Does a foreign country's import tariff also effect the USA made steels price?
metlmunchr
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There's nothing more idiotic than placing tariffs on incoming raw materials. It makes finished goods more expensive for the country's residents while making those same finished goods less competitive in the world market.
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
I can not imagine that a steel company in the US that is making steel not to take advantage of the price increase. Hell the tariffs aren't even in place and the manufacturers and resellers are already taking advantage of the potential situation according to some comments on this thread.
SALIV8
Well-known member
Wouldn't the tariff level the playing field for American made steel by American workers? Foreign steel has been historically cheaper because of slave labor and poorer quality. Now with an import tariff, wouldn't American made steel finally become competitive and start driving more sales/production to within our borders with our own workers?
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Falcon67
Well-known member
This happens with oil (terrorists attacked a Dairy Queen - oil futures uncertain) so why not with steel.
BruceMc
Well-known member
Canada, South Korea, and Mexico are the main suppliers of imported U.S. steel. China is a marginal player.
ard
Well-known member
Well, I for one will happily pay the 50% mark up since I am getting better quality steel....
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I didn't realize we had so many professional economists here on the GJ.
This truly is a magical place.
This truly is a magical place.
JSK
Well-known member
Yes it would, the same way the last tire tariff did. The Obama administration imposed punitive tariffs on tires imported from China from the normal rate of 4% all the way up to 35% in September of 2009 (for a full year), followed by a 30% tariff in 2010 and then a 25% tariff in 2011.
The tire tariffs cost US consumers over $900,000.00 per job saved and led to the loss of 3 retail jobs per factory job saved. Also, the additional money that US consumers spent on tires reduced their spending on other retail goods, indirectly lowering employment in the retail industry.
Studies repeatedly show that the consumer cost of trade protection typically exceeds, by a wide margin, any reasonable estimate of what a normal jobs program might cost. It is a very slippery slope. Be careful what you wish for.
Well, I for one will happily pay the 50% mark up since I am getting better quality steel....
LMFAO
But OTHO, my theory was right on this one .... stir up some ****, see what is floating and see what lands. If something falls, must make sure it lands on the other side. Take credit for things you didn't do. LMFAO... Great Leader, comes with no Responsibilities.
86turbodsl
Well-known member
SALIV8
Well-known member
SGKent
Banned
tariffs haven't even worked thru the system yet. Do you think the prices will drop the same day the tariffs are removed? It's all about what was already posted:
SALIV8
Well-known member
LMFAO
But OTHO, my theory was right on this one .... stir up some ****, see what is floating and see what lands. If something falls, must make sure it lands on the other side. Take credit for things you didn't do. LMFAO... Great Leader, comes with no Responsibilities.
No responsibilities?
Saving lives is serious.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...fety-risk-u-s-lawmakers-idUSN3057732120080430
Aaaaaand that's from a democrat in 08.
SALIV8
Well-known member
Again coming from Cali and experiencing BRIDGE FAILURES compliments of Chinese steel, thanks to shwarzenegger, I would think you would be pro American made steel that is made to strict testing standards....
I guess not??
Hard to compare tires to steel, and sales positions (lmao) but keep on keeping on
Falcon67
Well-known member
The tire tarriff thing was mostly trailer tires - tires that were not being made domestically anyway. Maxxis et al just moved production from China to Tiawan to end run the tarriff. There was a supply problem for a while but it went away.
My personal feeling is that politicians making these decisions are not so smart, and the manufacturers are not at all stupid.
My personal feeling is that politicians making these decisions are not so smart, and the manufacturers are not at all stupid.
Schurkey
Well-known member
Anything that reduces Communist imports is fine with me. We should have had an embargo on Chinese **** the way we had an embargo on Cuban ****.
Then they go and eliminate the Cuban embargo. The Communist Collaborators in this country need to be in prison.
How many parts of the American economy need to be destroyed before folks will pay attention?
Then they go and eliminate the Cuban embargo. The Communist Collaborators in this country need to be in prison.
How many parts of the American economy need to be destroyed before folks will pay attention?
finn
Well-known member
Why do you think all of the new 21” deep tool boxes are now on the market?
Answer: Waterloo petitioned the feds to declare that China and Vietnam were dumping tool chests and cabinets on the US consumer market.
The feds agreed, and slapped tariffs on tool boxes less than 21” deep and less than (I think) 60” long.
All of the imports are now 21+” deep, except for a few long 18” units.
Waterloo won, but lost in the sense that they now have to compete against deeper, or longer boxes.
Tariffs are really, really stupid.
Answer: Waterloo petitioned the feds to declare that China and Vietnam were dumping tool chests and cabinets on the US consumer market.
The feds agreed, and slapped tariffs on tool boxes less than 21” deep and less than (I think) 60” long.
All of the imports are now 21+” deep, except for a few long 18” units.
Waterloo won, but lost in the sense that they now have to compete against deeper, or longer boxes.
Tariffs are really, really stupid.
No responsibilities?
Saving lives is serious.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...fety-risk-u-s-lawmakers-idUSN3057732120080430
Aaaaaand that's from a democrat in 08.
LOL remind me of a boy who cries wolf... is the best I can put it without dragging this into a political argument....
Falcon67
Well-known member
Have a friend cleaning out junk - one haul made him $1200.
floridafarmer
Well-known member
Sorry for the long post here - this is a sore subject with me - fighting with these guys in my business right now...
The latest action against imported tires made in China was not a tariff but actually an anti-dumping judgement by the US Department of Commerce in 2015 and it was just modified in March of this year.
http://www.rubbernews.com/article/20150714/NEWS/150719965/us-itc-affirms-duties-on-chinese-tires
I'm not sure how the items get considered for a "tarriff" but the thing about "anti-dumping" is someone has to petition the US Government and incur lots of legal expense (a million or more to go thru the process. Typically, the petitioner is a company that is being damaged in the market by Chinese companies that are subsidized by their government. But in this case, it was curious that the petitioner was The United Steel Worker union - not a company. In fact, Goodyear and other tire companies rather enjoyed having facilities in China that they could manufacture at lower cost and ship to the US. You can read their annual report in recent years where they imported big quantities of inventory before the anti-dumping duties were implemented. The steel workers union started the anti-dumping petition because their workers were being let go when the factories shifted off-shore.
Contrary to popular belief, most of the advantages stem from raw material costs - where it seems China is rarely in line with the rest of the world. Lower cost labor may help in some cases but typically it's the government subsidized raw materials that do the damage.
Many of the other comments here are spot on - it doesn't help to burden a raw material like steel if the low-cost producing countries can use the steel to form a product (made of steel) but then import the finished product into the US without penalty - this puts US manufacturers in double jeopardy - can't buy the cheap steel but have to compete with it in the market.
The other scary thing is the number of very limited, rare earth elements in the periodic table that China now holds an exclusive position on (we don't have in the US). Fun reading for those who are bored:
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-secret-trade-war-option-a-rare-earth-embargo
Again - sorry for the long post...
The latest action against imported tires made in China was not a tariff but actually an anti-dumping judgement by the US Department of Commerce in 2015 and it was just modified in March of this year.
http://www.rubbernews.com/article/20150714/NEWS/150719965/us-itc-affirms-duties-on-chinese-tires
I'm not sure how the items get considered for a "tarriff" but the thing about "anti-dumping" is someone has to petition the US Government and incur lots of legal expense (a million or more to go thru the process. Typically, the petitioner is a company that is being damaged in the market by Chinese companies that are subsidized by their government. But in this case, it was curious that the petitioner was The United Steel Worker union - not a company. In fact, Goodyear and other tire companies rather enjoyed having facilities in China that they could manufacture at lower cost and ship to the US. You can read their annual report in recent years where they imported big quantities of inventory before the anti-dumping duties were implemented. The steel workers union started the anti-dumping petition because their workers were being let go when the factories shifted off-shore.
Contrary to popular belief, most of the advantages stem from raw material costs - where it seems China is rarely in line with the rest of the world. Lower cost labor may help in some cases but typically it's the government subsidized raw materials that do the damage.
Many of the other comments here are spot on - it doesn't help to burden a raw material like steel if the low-cost producing countries can use the steel to form a product (made of steel) but then import the finished product into the US without penalty - this puts US manufacturers in double jeopardy - can't buy the cheap steel but have to compete with it in the market.
The other scary thing is the number of very limited, rare earth elements in the periodic table that China now holds an exclusive position on (we don't have in the US). Fun reading for those who are bored:
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-secret-trade-war-option-a-rare-earth-embargo
Again - sorry for the long post...
Angelfire
Well-known member
Few people realize that manufacturing jobs in large part have not been lost to overseas facilities but by and large, automation. That trend will continue. Many of the companies that benefitted by bringing home their overseas money at a reduced tax rate are not passing that money on to their employees, they are buying automation.
JSK
Well-known member
I agree 100%. Any idiot who builds a bridge or building using cheap steel is a *****. If you are receiving ANY material (be it metal or plastic) from any country (even the USA) that does not meet your material call-outs and you continue to use it, you are the one to blame. But you are probably a rich one to blame.
If you are getting cheap junk from China shame on you. Some of the most sophisticated products and material are coming from China or (FILL IN COUNTRY HERE). Don’t rely on others to do your work for you. If you call out a material that is supposed to be certain type and it isn’t, surely don’t use it to build your high-speed train to nowhere.
Orionrising
Well-known member
china has something like 90% of worldwide steal production. That is insane. Course environmental regulations are a hugggge reason....
Angelfire
Well-known member
No, more like 49%. Still nothing to sneeze at though
finn
Well-known member
So your solution is for us to go back to breathing air as polluted as it was in the 1950s?
Get real!
Get real!
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
Some are stating that the price of steel is already increasing an the tariffs are not even in place yet. The heading of this thread. Steel prices...yikes.
So I would assume the answer is yes.
ard
Well-known member
And we all (should) realize how pointless it is having political arguments on a forum that bans political content.
Not sure if you are comparing apple to oranges or what.
I don't know exactly what bridge in California are you referring to...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures
list all of the bridge failures and about 8 are from California... are you saying these are all because of raw material issues from China...?
If you are referring to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_the_San_Francisco–Oakland_Bay_Bridge
Not that I am an expert of any bridge building by any means...
I think you are just reading the wrong thing and trying to tie into this remotely related topic for what ever reason you are doing. Acording to that wiki article the failure was not only because of steel from China... the failure was not just because a few critical bolts... I do agree with you on the report about substandard work might have performed... but that is not the only cause... if you read that Wiki article. You would have think all these management issue and cover ups to get the project on schedule and falsifying reports are all done by the Chinese "GamDat" team ?
and again... I am not sure if you classified a prefabricated section of a bridge even if it is made out of steel considered RAW material if this is covered under this exciting tariff.
finn
Well-known member
Don’t let facts get in the way of a good story / agenda.
mygarageone
Well-known member
So the price we pay for tariffs on imported steel , is a boost in the economy in many areas.
The iron ore Industry is already planning on re-opening some idle mines. Which means more employees, more equipment purchases, more fuel purchases etc. etc.
Yes steel prices have gone up but we are employing , many more people because of it. It’s always been a no-win situation, we scream by America, America first, take care of our own. Then when the possibility of this happens, we ***** about the prices that were paying for something. 90% of our factories are gone, I don’t even know if we will make clothing here anymore. This country was on a buy cheap, cheap cheap train and it has bite us in the ****.
Can’t have it both ways, we either keep American employees employed, Or we send the work overseas.
The rest of the world has taken advantage of us for years now, our policies have hurt the American people. Just look at fuel, we finally turn loose our oil production and gasoline at the pump despite what many people think is a very fair price. Most countries around the world their citizens are paying 5 to 6 dollars a gallon For fuel.
But we will always have the Walmart mentality, that is what created Walmart in the first place. And now people are bitching about Walmart because they’re so big and they pay the people very little,. But let’s not have decent wages our a decent product made in this country, let’s build new Walmarts
But we will always have the Walmart mentality, that is what created Walmart in the first place. And now people are bitching about Walmart because they’re so big and they pay the people very little,. But let’s not have decent wages are decent product made in this country, let’s build new Walmarts. How do you think Walmart got so stinking big ?
By importing all this **** from overseas, we have shut down factories, put many of our farmers out of work, put all of her clothing manufacturers out of work, sent our manufacturing of cars parts overseas, very little of our footwear is made in this country, Like I said you can’t have it both ways.
But because were Americans were special, we will ***** when it’s cheap and made overseas.
Then say by America and then ***** because of the price.
We’re never going to have it both ways !
The iron ore Industry is already planning on re-opening some idle mines. Which means more employees, more equipment purchases, more fuel purchases etc. etc.
Yes steel prices have gone up but we are employing , many more people because of it. It’s always been a no-win situation, we scream by America, America first, take care of our own. Then when the possibility of this happens, we ***** about the prices that were paying for something. 90% of our factories are gone, I don’t even know if we will make clothing here anymore. This country was on a buy cheap, cheap cheap train and it has bite us in the ****.
Can’t have it both ways, we either keep American employees employed, Or we send the work overseas.
The rest of the world has taken advantage of us for years now, our policies have hurt the American people. Just look at fuel, we finally turn loose our oil production and gasoline at the pump despite what many people think is a very fair price. Most countries around the world their citizens are paying 5 to 6 dollars a gallon For fuel.
But we will always have the Walmart mentality, that is what created Walmart in the first place. And now people are bitching about Walmart because they’re so big and they pay the people very little,. But let’s not have decent wages our a decent product made in this country, let’s build new Walmarts
But we will always have the Walmart mentality, that is what created Walmart in the first place. And now people are bitching about Walmart because they’re so big and they pay the people very little,. But let’s not have decent wages are decent product made in this country, let’s build new Walmarts. How do you think Walmart got so stinking big ?
By importing all this **** from overseas, we have shut down factories, put many of our farmers out of work, put all of her clothing manufacturers out of work, sent our manufacturing of cars parts overseas, very little of our footwear is made in this country, Like I said you can’t have it both ways.
But because were Americans were special, we will ***** when it’s cheap and made overseas.
Then say by America and then ***** because of the price.
We’re never going to have it both ways !
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77Birdman
Well-known member
Rebar prices have doubled recently, I needed some framing for a job and usually prefer light gauge metal studs, but they were over $5 a piece at HD. Wood is my new favorite! I guess the good news is I still have a mess of scrap that needs to be hauled away. I got rid of several large truckloads last winter and the price was pretty low, should've held onto it.
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