Remove locking freon caps

[rmanrman]

Hi. My ac guys were here last year to check for insufficient cooling
They added freon but I believe too much because the compressor is twice as loud as the other one next to it. They installed two red schrader caps that free spin with a 3/16 inch hole in the center. How do I remove these caps to check the pressures?? They said it was code because kids are snorting freon
More idiots in this world.
Thanks

 

[Stuff]

If you don't know how to remove the caps you shouldn't be touching the system. Call the pros if you have an issue.

Also: EPA now requires certification just to attach gauges. See https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certification-0

 

[bonneyman]

There are 2 or 3 different caps that I know of, each require a special "key" tool to remove them. Typically designed to prevent just what you mentioned - unauthorized inhalation of freon by idiot kids.

I had a pair on my personal unit, and one stripped out when I tried taking it off with the special tool. So I removed it using a dremel tool. After taking it apart I now understand how it works.

 

[Git]

I don't know anything about it, but instead of making a post that your not allowed to 'touch it', I googled around for 'freon tamper proof'

see if this helps

R22
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PB07B4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

R410a
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PAXAGY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Stuff]

I should have been more direct. As of 1/1/2018 it is against federal law to attach gauges to any system with freon or similar refrigerant without certification. Anyone helping the illegal activity is assisting in committing a crime. Whether someone disagrees with the law or finds it not a big deal is irrelevant.

 

[rmanrman]

Thanks
That’s the tool I’ve been looking for

 

[OzarkMan]

Thanks as well! Ordered the JB version of the same tool. Good to have in the tool box just in case.

 

[bonneyman]

All the manufacturers have to do in order to eliminate the "huffing" is add an odorant - like the egg smell in natural gas.

I don't recall snorting problems with ammonia systems.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I much prefer the straightforward answer to the question over a foreboding "you're going to prison" slap on the side of the head if you think about it... You make it sound like we're not recharging AC systems (which some of us have been trained to do, and even have our own gauges, recovery systems, vacuum pumps, etc.), but running a large scale meth lab. If you disagree,,, you're STILL goin' to the big house.

Sorry, but WTF??

 

[PoorOwner]

Thanks as well! Ordered the JB version of the same tool. Good to have in the tool box just in case.

Do you have a link to that?

 

[pop pop]

I should have been more direct. As of 1/1/2018 it is against federal law to attach gauges to any system with freon or similar refrigerant without certification. Anyone helping the illegal activity is assisting in committing a crime. Whether someone disagrees with the law or finds it not a big deal is irrelevant.

I also have a label on my mattress.

 

[Ronson25]

I should have been more direct. As of 1/1/2018 it is against federal law to attach gauges to any system with freon or similar refrigerant without certification. Anyone helping the illegal activity is assisting in committing a crime. Whether someone disagrees with the law or finds it not a big deal is irrelevant.

guess I'm in trouble since I recharge both r12 r134A systems.. Then again who cares its my system and I'll do what I want

 

[OzarkMan]

Here you go PoorOwner. Please don't rat me out that I helped send you a link to a tool that is obtainable by anyone with a keyboard


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015UA7GUQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[PoorOwner]

Here you go PoorOwner. Please don't rat me out that I helped send you a link to a tool that is obtainable by anyone with a keyboard


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015UA7GUQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Thanks, I huff 100% of the freon so none is released to the atmosphere.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I should have been more direct. As of 1/1/2018 it is against federal law to attach gauges to any system with freon or similar refrigerant without certification. Anyone helping the illegal activity is assisting in committing a crime. Whether someone disagrees with the law or finds it not a big deal is irrelevant.

I believe that only refers to r22 and r12 systems, I don't think there is any certification required for 410a or 134a.......I might be wrong I'm just going by memory I'm sure someone will correct me if I am.

 

[OzarkMan]

Got my second LG AC up and running for my addition. Unbelievable how quiet the two ceiling cassettes along with the outdoor unit. Had to see if the outdoor fan was turning to see if it was even on. Cooled down the addition in 10 min and is holding steady and silent at 75º. I am not going to huff my freon. It seems to work well in the ac unit instead. Need to add 2.37oz of R410A for the extra line set.

 

[InsanePyro]

I know you need to be certified for r134a...how and if those cans you can buy at parts stores are exempt but I know damn well the dealership I worked at got mighty angry when they found a few techs weren't certified.

 

[slow]

It may change personal use vs professionally in a work setting. The 608 test for car ac is easy to pass if needed.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I should have been more direct. As of 1/1/2018 it is against federal law to attach gauges to any system with freon or similar refrigerant without certification.

As of 1990 is more like it...

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

It may change personal use vs professionally in a work setting. The 608 test for car ac is easy to pass if needed.

Section 608 is the stationary equipment certification. MVAC certification is covered under Setcion 609.

Tommy

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Guys, these days almost anyone can buy refrigerant. Technically, only certified technicians can access the system.

Tommy

 

[Showkey]

Your leaf blower and chain saw have EPA anti tamper caps too............

AC refrig certificate has an online testing program if your really concerned. In the last 30 years no one as ever asked to see my certificate.

 

[RAYJAY]

I should have been more direct. As of 1/1/2018 it is against federal law to attach gauges to any system with freon or similar refrigerant without certification. Anyone helping the illegal activity is assisting in committing a crime. Whether someone disagrees with the law or finds it not a big deal is irrelevant.

OK i will just chuck all of my automotive stuff right out the window, got watch out for the Freon cops.................

 

[ant.foste]

I found the posts showing the correct tool to remove the anti-tamper caps to be quite helpful, and I appreciate and thank you gentlemen for taking the time to put together those helpful and constructive posts.

I have worked with and moved more refrigerant than 95% of the people on this forum in my career of a commercial and industrial chiller technician. I've recovered and reinstalled R22 on single projects carrying over 1,000lbs of refrigerant. I have walked into the supply houses and bought every last 125lb cylinder of 410a they had in stock at the time. I've done similar with 50lb jugs of 134 except I ran out of room on my truck and sent another truck to retrieve the rest. I have been 608 certified since 2002, 609 certified since 2004, 410a certified since 2010 or so, I'm a Fujitsu certified installer (did it for the longer warranty on my self-install at home last year), and have never encountered the anti-tamper caps although I have heard about them.

So, for the folks providing no information other than doom and gloom, please consider there are people out there who are certainly more than qualified to touch any system out there but have no experience with these specific caps.

 

[bonneyman]

I'm with Showkey and RAYJAY on this one.

If the AC ain't working and it's 105 outside I really don't see how anyone can prevent the homeowner from trying to get the thing going.

 

[OzarkMan]

I believe those caps are more of a control thing to not allow the homeowner experienced in refrigeration or not to touch their system but to call an HVAC company. In phoenix during the summer months, your average ticket is $300-800 for a simple capacitor replacement and a check of refrigerant via gauges. Its just downright crazy. A few years ago my condenser fan motor took a dump. The local HVAC supply store would not sell me a motor since I didn't have a certification. So, I circumvented that by opening an account with the store since I am an electrical contractor and then they sold me only electrical parts. paid $58 for the motor for which a nameless ac company famous out here quoted me $698. I remember there were two company workers sitting on the stools waiting on their orders looking at me smirking rude remarks to call a real ac company and that I cant buy anything in the store. I'll never forget those two guys from George Brazil treating me like some *************. Ever since then, I learned as much as I could on the trade and bought a stock pile of very high end tools to service my home system. Even took online courses that were recorded from an actual HVAC school in NC. Of course, I don't get a certification with it, but I am not going out making money servicing other peoples ac systems. Not what I plan to do with my knowledge. Its for me and myself only. I am one who believes a man should be able to learn all he can do and do what he can to his limitations where he feels comfortable. Get the best education and understand the hazards and dangers of whatever you get involved in.

 

[pop pop]

Plus I’d bet those laughing chair monkeys screw up half the units they “worked” on.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I found the posts showing the correct tool to remove the anti-tamper caps to be quite helpful, and I appreciate and thank you gentlemen for taking the time to put together those helpful and constructive posts.

I have worked with and moved more refrigerant than 95% of the people on this forum in my career of a commercial and industrial chiller technician. I've recovered and reinstalled R22 on single projects carrying over 1,000lbs of refrigerant. I have walked into the supply houses and bought every last 125lb cylinder of 410a they had in stock at the time. I've done similar with 50lb jugs of 134 except I ran out of room on my truck and sent another truck to retrieve the rest. I have been 608 certified since 2002, 609 certified since 2004, 410a certified since 2010 or so, I'm a Fujitsu certified installer (did it for the longer warranty on my self-install at home last year), and have never encountered the anti-tamper caps although I have heard about them.


So, for the folks providing no information other than doom and gloom, please consider there are people out there who are certainly more than qualified to touch any system out there but have no experience with these specific caps.

Anti tamper caps have been required by IRC & IMC code on all outdoor refrigerant service ports since late '09.

FWIW, I've had Section 609 certification since '92, Section 608 Type II, III & IV since '93 and upgraded to Universal when the EPA changed the titles in '94. There is no EPA certification for 410a...



Tommy

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I found the posts showing the correct tool to remove the anti-tamper caps to be quite helpful, and I appreciate and thank you gentlemen for taking the time to put together those helpful and constructive posts.

I have worked with and moved more refrigerant than 95% of the people on this forum in my career of a commercial and industrial chiller technician. I've recovered and reinstalled R22 on single projects carrying over 1,000lbs of refrigerant. I have walked into the supply houses and bought every last 125lb cylinder of 410a they had in stock at the time. I've done similar with 50lb jugs of 134 except I ran out of room on my truck and sent another truck to retrieve the rest. I have been 608 certified since 2002, 609 certified since 2004, 410a certified since 2010 or so, I'm a Fujitsu certified installer (did it for the longer warranty on my self-install at home last year), and have never encountered the anti-tamper caps although I have heard about them.

So, for the folks providing no information other than doom and gloom, please consider there are people out there who are certainly more than qualified to touch any system out there but have no experience with these specific caps.

Don't feel bad I've never heard of them either and I've had my 608 universal cert since jan of 1994

 

[samss]

The supply houses are the only places I've ever seen these locking caps. Been working on commercial refrigeration since 1996. Other than pulling permits, I've only had to show my license ONCE.

 

[ant.foste]

Anti tamper caps have been required by IRC & IMC code on all outdoor refrigerant service ports since late '09.

FWIW, I've had Section 609 certification since '92, Section 608 Type II, III & IV since '93 and upgraded to Universal when the EPA changed the titles in '94. There is no EPA certification for 410a...

Tommy

Why are Trane and York chillers not coming from the factory in compliance with the code standards you mention above? Or Fujitsu mini-splits for that matter? Or the Goodman that the landlords contractor installed in my sisters house in 2012 or 2013?

Never said the 410 cert was EPA mandated.

The supply houses are the only places I've ever seen these locking caps. Been working on commercial refrigeration since 1996. Other than pulling permits, I've only had to show my license ONCE.

I've been asked twice; both times while on travel helping out a sister store. Once in the Bay Area in CA, and once in Vegas.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Why are Trane and York chillers not coming from the factory in compliance with the code standards you mention above? Or Fujitsu mini-splits for that matter? Or the Goodman that the landlords contractor installed in my sisters house in 2012 or 2013?

Never said the 410 cert was EPA mandated.



I've been asked twice; both times while on travel helping out a sister store. Once in the Bay Area in CA, and once in Vegas.

I don't see them anywhere except the supply houses, either. I was just merely adding they are IRC and IMC code. It very well may be the EPA doesn't recognize those codes?

I apologize for sounding antagonistic about the 410a cert.

Tommy

 

[mpire]

Funny, I ordered these caps from Amazon and put them on my rental units myself to prevent huffing.

They leave plastic bags around when they **** your refrigerant. Basically fill the grocery bag and then huff from there.

That, and unsavory characters stealing your R22 because its so expensive.

 

[Radio Flyer]

Your leaf blower and chain saw have EPA anti tamper caps too............

AC refrig certificate has an online testing program if your really concerned. In the last 30 years no one as ever asked to see my certificate.

I agree, but yesterday one of our techs stopped by the auto parts store that we use at work to pick up a can of 134a with dye in it . He said that he was "carded". They said that after January 2018, they are required to check for certification.

Additionally, our parts department received a notice from our motorcraft supplier stating that they need 1 certification on file to supply us with 134a.

 

[Stuff]

EPA is clear as mud on a lot of things but they now imply that r410a needs 608 certification: https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certification

Starting on January 1, 2018, this requirement will also apply to appliances containing most substitute refrigerants, including HFCs.

 

[OzarkMan]

Anyone care to comment on the R600 refrigerant thats becoming more and more popular in American appliances? That stuff is basically butane. Maybe if some idiot kid huffs that near an open flame....

 

[slow]

I agree, but yesterday one of our techs stopped by the auto parts store that we use at work to pick up a can of 134a with dye in it . He said that he was "carded". They said that after January 2018, they are required to check for certification.

Additionally, our parts department received a notice from our motorcraft supplier stating that they need 1 certification on file to supply us with 134a.

could be local check as well. Doesn't Wisconsin ban all consumer R134A sales?

 

[gregdd]

If you don't know how to remove the caps you shouldn't be touching the system. Call the pros if you have an issue.

Also: EPA now requires certification just to attach gauges. See https://www.epa.gov/section608/section-608-technician-certification-0

I really get a kick out of reply's like this. Lets say your a pro who has been working HVAC for decades. The first time you see this cap you don't have the tool in your van. I guess that makes you a looser that shouldn't be touching anything. Get a grip.

 

[nsula_country]

Personally I haven't seen locking service port caps.

I'm not a HVAC contractor, but like MesaAZguy own every tool to remove, install, and commision any residential or light commercial AC or Heat Pump. I am not a freelancing, Craigslist hack. My interest is only personally owned units, our rentals, and family. I am 608 Universal certified and a vetted member on HVAC-Talk forum.

Also interesting that they fall under a code as requirement. Have never heard them discussed on HVAC-Talk. Have never seen them ship installed or in a kit with new equipment. I have worked in HVAC equipment manufacturing for over 10 years and have never heard mention of locking caps or their requirement per a code.

Seems like an expensive solution to a problem that I've never encountered. And can be defeated with a universal key...

CT

 

[OzarkMan]

I believe it to be something that some companies install to prevent the homeowner or their friends who may be knowledgeable in HVAC from working on their own units but rather to call a company. Nothing more than a scam. If it is true that kids/people huff that ****, I hope they die and alleviate the population from their stupid gene pools. Just my opinion. Never heard of it around here. We have issues with copper thefts where the thief would hacksaw the refrigerant lines spewing the stuff as they jack open the condenser to pull the coil out leaving a tragic mess.