Putting router, switch, etc in attic. Hear me out

[TT_Vert]

I live in Illinois and it gets from zero to the low 100s on occasion. I don't think the attic will ever get too cold given that heat rises and there is some insulation in the garage but I could be wrong. As far as heat, well that's an issue. I have a 20x20 wall mounted rack which I am handing from the rafters. My plan is to enclose the back and sides of the rack and install a thermostat which will turn on two higher volume AC fans (Maybe more or less depending on how well it cools) when the box is over say 100 degrees. I have to check current requirements for fans to figure out more. I may even use a spare arduino I have laying around and use PWM. I'm debating airflow direction (**** or blow). Any opinions, thoughts, etc would be helpful.

I will have my patch panel, security camera/dvr, cable modem, POE switch and router up there. The rack is right at the entrance to my attic and is easily accessible without even going all the way up the attic ladder.


Heck this is even an option although I have no idea how loud it is.
Dave

 

[Kaizen]

I wouldn’t. Fans only work when the air coming in is useable. The equipment heat plus 100+ degree heat will kill or severely shorten the life of those components.
Now if you boxed in the box and put a fan into the house it’s now conditioned space and could work


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[NUTTSGT]

I have a switch for my internet up in my garage attic. Been there about 5 years and no issue yet.

 

[TT_Vert]

Unfortunately I have no HVAC ducting in the attic to branch off front. What i "could" do is put a vent in the ceiling of the garage in an inconspicuous place as an ambient air source and duct it to my rack. I planned to use two 200MM fans at the back of the rack to move air across the equipment.

 

[Toothaker]

Blowing warm or hot air across electronics doesn't cool it. Electronics don't sweat like we do, so moving air does no good. Cool air, now that's a different story.

Years ago I was responsible for a large network. One branch location had their router (a Cisco 2502 router, which shows my age) in the uncooled attic, along with the Token Ring MAU and some other equipment. The staff on site were constantly complaining about slow speeds, unreliable network, etc. We had regular network outages and equipment failures. Once the location was remodeled and the equipment brought down out of the attic the failures ended.

 

[ITGuy1998]

No way I would put that equipment in the attic. In the summer, it gets really hot. To cool, you need heat transfer. Blowing really hot air over equipment that is hot won't do it. It may work for a while, but you will likely have lots of weird problems before the failures start happening.

 

[InsanePyro]

Is the basement an option?

 

[TT_Vert]

The basement is not an option. I think I'm going to put a vent in the garage and use that as the intake and **** air from the garage into the rack with two 200 mm fans. rack will be sealed on all sides except the front. all air will be drawn in from the garage over the equipment and out the front into the attic. Fans will be thermostatically controlled and eventually probably PWM

 

[mike93lx]

If your house is well insulated, your attic should get as cold as ambient in the winter and at least 20-40 degrees warmer than ambient in the summer if you have direct sun exposure.

No way i would put running electronics in my attic. I don't put anything in mine that can't easily deal with extreme heat, cold and humidity.

 

[TT_Vert]

My equipment has a rated continuous operate temperature of 140° so if it's really only got 40 above ambient I would never have an issue without any cooling.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

i vote for the 'don't put it in the attic' option. FYI code doesn't allow you to have a hole between the garage and the house, because fire.
not sure why you're even putting fans on your gear - they have fans inside. pretty sure cisco says 0C-55C inlet temps. put the gear where those conditions are met.

 

[CoogarXR]

I had a UPS, switch, 12v power supply (for cameras) and DVR in my garage attic. I left the attic door open and the DVR sat right by the door, hoping it would be cool enough. Even in Ohio it got VERY hot up there. I could probably fry an egg on top of the DVR in the summer.

The DVRs hard drive died quickly from the heat, as did it's internal time-keeping system (no battery, I don't know what it uses (used). The power supply for the cameras died on the first hot day. The ups burst the batteries right away too. So yeah, I can say I don't recommend attic placement.

I moved them to a closet with a vent on the door and 2x 12v 5" fans mounted to a furnace register in the ceiling (pulling air up into the attic). I used an old thermostat that had AC contacts on it to control the 12v power from a wall-wart. I set it for 85, and when it got to 85, it would call for AC, close the contacts and feed the fans 12vdc. The fans draw cool air from down by the floor, up across the equipment and exhaust the hot air into the attic. It works great.

 

[APEowner]

My equipment has a rated continuous operate temperature of 140° so if it's really only got 40 above ambient I would never have an issue without any cooling.

Don't forget that the equipment also generates heat. If you can pull cooler air from the house or the garage and then vent it out of the attic then you'll be fine.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

No Way I would put it in the attic. At some point you will have to power cycle it and its not going to be fun to have it up there. All of my electronics, 3 receives, tivo boxes, routers, switch, 8 raid boxes etc are installed in a dedicated closet in my office. I punched a vent in the outside wall at the bottom of the closet and then another at the top. The vent at the top has an ultra quite bathroom fan in it that comes on whenever the temp gets too warm. Works great. Office is quiter, home theater is quieter and everything is way cooler now too.

 

[StingRay]

Condensation will kill it too. It's not made for the temp swings you'll get up there. Thermal cycling is hard on most things.

 

[kwschumm]

Ignoring attic conditions, if you put that stuff in the attic, and your attic is not convenient to access, you will probably want it powered by an outlet you can turn on and off without going up there. It seems about everything electronic needs to be reset from time to time.

 

[tthornto]

The equipment will not function reliably in summer attic temps. If it's 100 degrees outside your attic is going to be 125-140 degrees Which is over the max rated temp for most electronics. there are two different temperature ratings associated with this the higher number usually in the 140-160 degree fahrenheit range is the max storage temperature Not operating temp. Operating temp range is usually 32 to 104 degrees farenheit (0-40 celcius.)

To put the rack in the attic and have it work reliably year round you need to use an enclosed rack that you can attach a portable AC unit to. To do that you will want 2 20 amp electric circuits up there, 1 for the AC and 1 for the network equipment. The AC will also require plumbing and possibly a pump to drain the condensation.

It is not cheap or easy to put electronics in an unconditioned space. I would look into other solutions. It would be much easier to hide it in a closet. For what it would cost to put it in the attic you could have a custom piece of furniture built to hide it in. Better yet install a mini-split AC for your garage, put the electronics out there and enjoy you air conditioned garage.

 

[rossomania]

Lots of great, spot on advice has been shared here. But I'll jump in, too. Putting routers, switches, and other electronics in your non-climate controlled attic is a very bad idea.

Even inside your air conditioned home, its very easy to have electronics overheat in a home theater closet or an IT closet in your home office. Why? Because it's not enough to just have access to cool air, you need to be able to *remove the heat* which means proper air flow both in and out of your equipment space. With this in mind, the idea of having your electronic equipment literally bake in the extreme ambient heat of your attic is just not viable.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Sorry for having to ask, but what is "PWM". Otherwise an interesting thread.



.

 

[coljar]

Can you put it in an insulated box with ducted fan blown air from the ceiling of the room below?

 

[Kaizen]

Unfortunately I have no HVAC ducting in the attic to branch off front. What i "could" do is put a vent in the ceiling of the garage in an inconspicuous place as an ambient air source and duct it to my rack. I planned to use two 200MM fans at the back of the rack to move air across the equipment.

What I was picturing is the box with two inch foam all around it making a tight seal. Sit it on the joists sealing the joist area as well under the box. Use two fans as you said. One in and one out using duct of some kind. Put them at opposite ends of the box. Monitor the return temp in the hot months to see if it’s above room temp


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[snowman3]

You already have the rack mounted, so go for it and see how it works.

In terms of sealing off the rack and forcing air over it, where are you getting the fresh air, and where are you depositing it afterward? (Read the fun debates on attic fans) Big fans need big volumes of air. TBD how well you can pull from garage or living quarters (and whether that is up to code). You could definitely have lots of air if you add more vents to the roof. Add ductwork + vent from soffit to rack. And add ductwork + vent out through the roof for the escape.

 

[Dragfluid]

I don't even understand why this is even an idea? Does a router and a switch really take up that much room in the garage??

 

[TT_Vert]

Thanks for the comments guys. I swear some people don't read the OP sometimes.

The rack is right at the entrance to my attic and is easily accessible without even going all the way up the attic ladder.

So access to power cycle is not an issue. I'll figure something out. It's up there now and I'll find a way to make it work.

There are many reasons that it is up there which are irrelevant to my question.

At this point fresh air would be ducted from a garage directly below the rack. Air will pass over the devices and then exit the front into the attic. The house has one thermostatically controlled attic fan as well as numerous eave vents.

I could use a pusher and a puller setup but I don't really want to enclose the entire box. I'd like to keep the front somewhat open for access. All panels will be removable and i'll probably use a foam or rubber gasket to ensure they are fairly air tight. Rather than a pusher/puller I could put one fan at the top pulling hot air out of the box also which may not be a bad idea. These 200MM fans I'm installing should move a decent amount of air and if the ducting from the garage to them is pretty air tight it should work fairly well.

I think i may mirror the dvr drive and try it w/o any cooling first to see how bad it gets.

PWM=Pulse width modulation. Controls the speed of certain motors by sending precisely timed pulses. So if I wanted a PWM motor to run at half speed I could alternate power to it every 50ms or something similar. So the arduino would use the input from a temp sensor to determine what pulsewidth to send to fan to control its speed.
Dave

 

[lml999]

FYI code doesn't allow you to have a hole between the garage and the house, because fire.

^^^That^^^^

Hang an equipment box from the ceiling or on a wall, in the garage.

 

[TT_Vert]

^^^That^^^^

Hang an equipment box from the ceiling or on a wall, in the garage.

And I still have a hole to feed 20 cables through which is still a code violation no? We'll will see how my solution works.
Dave

 

[rsanter]

At work we install them in the ceiling, but they are installed in a box right in the ceiling so they are more at room tempature than the attic tempature.
If you want it in the attic I would build a box right above the ceiling, remove the insulation at the ceiling and put it over the box and even think about some vent holes into the conditioned space

 

[Dragfluid]

Well, it sounds like an interesting project. Could we have a look at what you have?

Here's my "rack" out in the shed.

 

[lml999]

And I still have a hole to feed 20 cables through which is still a code violation no? We'll will see how my solution works.
Dave

You can fire-proof the penetration for data cables. Here's one option.

On the other hand, an open vent with a fan will promote fire transfer, and may pull carbon monoxide from the garage as well.

Its your call. You asked for advice. You got it. Whether you heed the advice is your choice.

 

[TT_Vert]

Well, it sounds like an interesting project. Could we have a look at what you have?

Here's my "rack" out in the shed.

Yes when I stop by today I'll get a pic. As of now I just have the rack hung and everything punched down. The DVR is just sitting on a shelf right now and I've yet to put a router in place. I have my templates for enclosing the box but not cut out yet. This is a house I just purchased and won't move in to for a few months while I do a bunch of stuff to it.


I appreciate the opinions and will consider what everyone has said.

Dave

 

[Dragfluid]

DVR. Is it from DTV or Dish?
Neither one of those boys will want to be performing service on it standing on a ladder.

 

[TT_Vert]

DVR. Is it from DTV or Dish?
Neither one of those boys will want to be performing service on it standing on a ladder.

DVR for surveillance system.

Dave

 

[tthornto]

As far as cables going through walls meeting code look for "fireblock" and fill the space around the cables with it to make it airtite. Some fireblock products are a clay like product that you stuff around the cables, but my favorite is the expanding foam.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/GREAT-STUFF-306179-Foam-Sealant-Orange-12-oz-Fire-Block-G4038295/17300370?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1122&adid=22222222227026142081&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=55468497129&wl4=pla-87966527049&wl5=9060388&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=101593696&wl11=online&wl12=17300370&wl13=&veh=sem

 

[APEowner]

I like most of your plan but I too am uncomfortable with drawing air from the garage. How about just pulling air in from the eaves? That avoids messing with the fire break and it should still cool well enough.

 

[wssix99]

I live in Illinois and it gets from zero to the low 100s on occasion. I don't think the attic will ever get too cold given that heat rises and there is some insulation in the garage but I could be wrong.

If you ever have snow on your roof that doesn't melt, then that proves the theory incorrect.

I work with this type of equipment that is in unconditioned buildings in northeastern Illinois. The temperature kills it. We have to keep it in special heated cabinets.

This may sound like a good idea at first, but you'll have to maintain this stuff. You'll want to add things, your better half will want equipment changed, etc. Having to go up in the attic will be a total PITA. My equipment is inside and in a place where I have to use a ladder to access it. (I kick myself monthly...)

 

[u3b3rg33k]

And I still have a hole to feed 20 cables through which is still a code violation no? We'll will see how my solution works.
Dave

They have this magic stuff called "EMT". probably the same stuff they put the electrical wiring in.

Here's a handy guide:

http://www.cabling-design.com/interaction/tips/19Apr20041.shtml

 

[TT_Vert]

I like most of your plan but I too am uncomfortable with drawing air from the garage. How about just pulling air in from the eaves? That avoids messing with the fire break and it should still cool well enough.

Another valid and even easier option if i didn't have a hip roof. I cannot get even close to the eave from the attic given the very steep angle at which the truss intersects the house.

Dave

 

[TT_Vert]

If you ever have snow on your roof that doesn't melt, then that proves the theory incorrect.

I work with this type of equipment that is in unconditioned buildings in northeastern Illinois. The temperature kills it. We have to keep it in special heated cabinets.

This may sound like a good idea at first, but you'll have to maintain this stuff. You'll want to add things, your better half will want equipment changed, etc. Having to go up in the attic will be a total PITA. My equipment is inside and in a place where I have to use a ladder to access it. (I kick myself monthly...)

I'm also an IT professional but in the NW suburbs. I do have many customers w/ equipment in non vented warehouse rooms which get way hotter due to heat generated by multiple servers. Not the greatest setup but they don't want to spend the money on something that has never failed to work and honestly I cannot blame them for thinking the way they do. On that same note, My equipment is fairly rock stead and everything I own can be rebooted via CLI even when locked but I've not had to reboot any of my equipment in over a year (Probably because it's linux based FW). With that said I could just flip the breaker for the circuit I have everything on if I would rather go down into a basement rather than up a few steps into the attic

I am going to monitor temps up in the attic for a while just out of curiosity. I also have an attic vent fan which goes off at 100 degrees and it has yet to go on once in the 20+ hours i've been up there. Yes, i did test it to ensure it was working. It was in the mid 70s today and the attic was probably about the same, pretty comfortable for the 3 hours I was up there today.

I've got the sides of my rack enclosure fabricated, the templates for the fans created and nutserts installed for all sides for easy access. May even use thumbscrew for the **** factor. Aside from the code violation of drawing air in from the garage I'd be shocked if heat is ever an issue with my setup. I may look to draw air from somewhere else but I can't think of another convenient place as there are no closets around that area.

I should have my digital thermostat here in the next few days and I can test out MKI. Hope to go arduino/PWM for MKII unless I cannot control heat. With the arduino or even better a Pi w/ node red I could monitor all temps and be alerted via text, email, etc. if it gets to hot. That's actually not a bad idea. Using a pi to monitor/control my aquarium lights, pumps, water and air temps/humidity and it's pretty neat. Way overkill, but who doesn't need a project that is "destined to fail"?

Dave

 

[scraejtp]

PWM=Pulse width modulation. Controls the speed of certain motors by sending precisely timed pulses. So if I wanted a PWM motor to run at half speed I could alternate power to it every 50ms or something similar. So the arduino would use the input from a temp sensor to determine what pulsewidth to send to fan to control its speed.
Dave

Which is overkill unless you just enjoy spending the time on the project. There are very cheap thermostatic relays/controllers available that are ready to go. (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OXPE8U6/?tag=atomicindus08-20)

 

[TT_Vert]

Yes and no. Those controllers you show are off or on. If you can control rpm based on temp you don't need the fan at full jet engine all the time. With that said, what you linked is what I'm starting out with.

Dave