Pros/cons of French-style "clés à pipes" socket wrenches

[Al Borland]

Reminds me of the hex drive socket set I had when I was a kid, with a big allen wrench to turn the sockets.
Didn't have a hollow handle, but equally awkward. The hex ratchet was pretty neat though. I think it had maybe 12 teeth. Maybe. Not reversible, just push the peg thru and flip the ratchet over.
All the sockets stored on the allen wrench. Still have a few of the sockets going on 50 years later.

 

[MJO]

Con: They're French.

 

[MayerMR]

I dunno, these are different from what I'm used to AND I DON'T LIKE CHANGE. They are baddddd newsssssssss I tells ya! ;P

 

[matthew]

Looks like they'd be easier to put a pipe over the end to get more leverage than a combo wrench... maybe that's why they call it a pipe wrench

In all seriousness, I could see having one size for a specific job and treating it like an allen wrench - crack it free with the long handle then flip it to spin the nut quickly. But for a bunch of sizes I'd just as soon carry a socket set...

 

[Antique Engine]

I was adjusting the valves on a Honda D series 1.6 the other day. One of those would have worked real nice.

 

[Kasal]

Maybe if they did not know the "pipes" keys, they do not know the tube keys either, (they are called in my country)
The body is hexagonal to be able to make more force with a Spanish key

 

[Gmonkee]

In Mexican Spanish a socket used to be called a tubo. Tube or pipe in english. Now commonly called a dado.
A wrench is called a llave which means both key like a house key or mechanics wrench. It also means valve as in gas or water. Kinda confusing at first.

 

[Prowagen]

I had a set of these when I lived in the UK. I used them surprisingly often as they are very strong and very comfortable to use. I would recommend them!


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe right now. Except for the cross-bar access through the top of the head (which is ingenious), these tools look and work, in principle, exactly like the standard double-end L-type offset socket wrenches that Walden, Blackhawk, Plomb and others made in the 1900's right up through the early 1920's here in the US. Before the advent of detachable sockets - initially pressed-steel, then forged - they were welded or forged on the ends of handles in different sizes, very often on double-end L-handle offsets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The socket wrenches I am talking about above had solid shanks, of course, with 4-, 6-, or -12-point sockets welded or forged on the ends, as I said. Just in case anyone is having a hard time visualizing this era from our own automotive history, pics below.

 

[Mr_B]

^ thats cool info .

 

[superautobacs]

I bought a few Facom ones close to ten years ago when I visited Paris, but I've probably only ever used one, once.



Private Lugnutz,

Thanks for sharing that. It reminds me of this Walden Worchester wrench that I have in my collection:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/25346003823/in/photolist-EBJTTV-EBoxMo/" title="Walden Worcester"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1505/25346003823_7eedfeb14e_b.jpg" width="1024" height="681" alt="Walden Worcester"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/25342033924/in/photolist-EBJTTV-EBoxMo/" title="Walden Worcester."><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1519/25342033924_166f92d347_b.jpg" width="1024" height="681" alt="Walden Worcester."></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It gets even better...

A company named Braunsdorf-Mueller, in Elizabeth, N.J., was making them out of tubular steel. Just like these French "pipe wrenches" they had a hole for a cross-bar near the offset end, so they could be turned as an L- or a T-wrench. They came in sets from 1/2" to 7/8". Same size opening on both ends. Finished in black enamel.

Below is an advertisement (from 1919) and some photos of Braunsdorf-Mueller socket wrenches from that era from my collection.

When they said "TOOLS THAT LAST" in the ad, I don't think they meant Facom appropriating the same basic idea almost 100 years later..., but it's as ironic as it is true.

They say what comes around goes around, and I actually admire that a modern tool company is making them, that they improved on them, and that they're apparently as popular as they are functional. Detachable, interchangeable sockets and handles changed the industry forever, but it's hard to deny the functionality and endurance of this early design.

 

[4xdog]

Lower-end wrenches are still stamped steel in Europe, Lugz.

Another way they get used for more leverage is to extend the long end even longer by slipping a larger wrench over it. The ID/OD of the sets are designed so a socket two sizes up fits over the outside of the smaller one.

 

[JR 42]

It gets even better...

A company named Braunsdorf-Mueller, in Elizabeth, N.J., was making them out of tubular steel. Just like these French "pipe wrenches" they had a hole for a cross-bar near the offset end, so they could be turned as an L- or a T-wrench. They came in sets from 1/2" to 7/8". Same size opening on both ends. Finished in black enamel.

Below is an advertisement (from 1919) and some photos of Braunsdorf-Mueller socket wrenches from my collection.

When they said "TOOLS THAT LAST" in the ad, I don't think they meant Facom appropriating the same basic idea almost 100 years later..., but it's as ironic as it is true.

They say what comes around goes around, and I actually admire that a modern tool company is making them, that they improved on them, and that they're apparently as popular as they are functional. Detachable, interchangeable sockets and handles changed the industry forever, but it's hard to deny the functionality and endurance of this early design.

I'm pretty sure this style of "pipe wrench" isn't new at all, and has been popular and wide-spread in Europe since forever ago- I don't think these are a recent addition from Facom at all. Off to go google some stuff...

JR

 

[4xdog]

It gets even better...

A company named Braunsdorf-Mueller, in Elizabeth, N.J., was making them out of tubular steel. Just like these French "pipe wrenches" they had a hole for a cross-bar near the offset end, so they could be turned as an L- or a T-wrench. They came in sets from 1/2" to 7/8". Same size opening on both ends. Finished in black enamel.

Below is an advertisement (from 1919) and some photos of Braunsdorf-Mueller socket wrenches from my collection...

See p 62 in this Bost Tools catalog, Lugz, for their modern version of Your B-M socket wrenches.
http://www.bost-tools.com/eng/pdf/serrage.pdf

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Another way they get used for more leverage is to extend the long end even longer by slipping a larger wrench over it. The ID/OD of the sets are designed so a socket two sizes up fits over the outside of the smaller one.

I saw that in your first post. I think that's an even more ingenious improvement than the recessed access through the tube to the socket for a cross bar.

I'm pretty sure this style of "pipe wrench" isn't new at all, and has been popular and wide-spread in Europe since forever ago- I don't think these are a recent addition from Facom at all.

If that's the case, then I admire that European tool companies kept the design going. Either way, we largely dropped the concept here in favor of detachable, interchangeable sockets and handles.

See p 62 in this Bost Tools catalog, Lugz, for their modern version of Your B-M socket wrenches.

Thanks! As a vintage tool collector, it's an odd, almost anachronistic feeling looking at them in a modern catalog.

 

[4xdog]

I saw that in your first post. I think that's an even more ingenious improvement than the recessed access through the tube to the socket for a cross bar...

It's probably not advised, just like using two open end wrenches for greater leverage isn't advised, but it's sure done pretty often. And two interlocked socket wrenches are probably safer and easier on the tools than two OEs.

I'll bet it was done with your 1920s wrenches, too, and probably not encouraged then either.

 

[Billythekid1]

I bought a facom set new in the facom store in Greece last summer for $90 that included a 21mm that the guy through in for free really nice people in that store

 

[Qualitytools]

I discovered them here on GJ and want a set!

 

[Gmonkee]

When I could not buy the ones to fill gaps in my set I started making them with loose sockets. Ugly if functionally equal.

Gave me a little freedom to play with the dimensions too to see how they might be if changed.

 

[Mr_B]

^
that's a good idea, I got a bread baxket full of odd sockets and wrenches and could pick out the best and form and weld them into custom set of my liking .

 

[monkeyspanners]

Depends what you work on and where, I work mobile so keep a couple of these style wrenches in my diagnostic bag, great for 7mm nuts on small fan motors, also useful for hose clamps.

We have an agency for French made equipment, interestingly these style wrenches are depicted in their service manuals where they give a list of tools needed for each specific maintenance task.

 

[xin]

On some sort of industrial applications, but the ratchet/socket and combination wrenches replaced these.

 

[Gmonkee]

^
that's a good idea, I got a bread baxket full of odd sockets and wrenches and could pick out the best and form and weld them into custom set of my liking .

Please post up your work if you do this. I am very curious if your best results will be anything like mine.

Deep 6pt and shallow 12 pt linked with bits of VW bug torsion bar front spring were the ingredients of my best.

Have fun with it too. Loose old sockets are cheap.

 

[Gmonkee]

Today a Chevy in for body work and the best form of wrench for the job were these.
French chassis reworked to be in service two decades without major changes.

But then it occurred to me that Peugeot, Renault and late model Nissan (also Renault) are where these shine.

Areas and clearances seem to be made to fit the tool dimensions from the design table.

Dodge/Fiat is where they fit the worst for tighter spaces it seems.

Just a casual observation on my part that may help explain why to one a treasure and to another a pita to use.

Sadly many cars here are the Renault based Nissan travesties. I am prepared.

 

[Tonyuk]

I have a set from facom and use them pretty often. There the best tool I've found for dealing with brake bleeders, I put the tube through the opening at the top and the 6 point end stops them rounding.

Mine are 6 point on both ends, facom make a cheaper version with folded and stamped steel as well as the type shown, a set of them is about £36 here.

 

[4xdog]

I picked up 12 and 14 mm FACOM socket wrenches the other day in Europe to add two sizes rarely used in Europe, but quite common on my Toyotas. The’re indeed six-point both ends.

 

[Gmonkee]

pics of the cheaper line by Facom? That kind of stuff doesn't get to Mexico.

 

[drtyler]

Gmonkee - those are the Facom 92A series.

https://catalogue.facom.com/uk-en/c...s/produit/92a-metric-angled-box-wrenches-sets

 

[Gmonkee]

Thank you Sir.

Those are about as basic a tube wrench as one can achieve. I love it.

If available in my market I'd have a set. I had to make 10 of 16 I do have to get a 6.3 - 19mm set and will probably make more to create a more uniform set. Truper dropped them five years ago.

 

[Qualitytools]

SAM also makes these wrenches in 6 points on both ends as well as 6 X 12 on different ends, anyone have any experience with SAM, I know Facom and Stanley are the same now but not sure if they are still made in France or not. However, the SAM brand does say France on them, so anyone care to comment or have seen the SAM brand and compare please? Thanks!

 

[ultgar]

A lot of companies make these in 6pt x 12pt only........Toptul, USAG, etc. Facom's 75 series is 6 x 6pt and their 76 series is 6 x 12pt. I have a lot of the 75 series marked down an additional 20-30% on my site (12mm is marked down 40%)....see https://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/index.php?cPath=35_61_75_709 .

 

[Qualitytools]

Thanks for the feedback Steve, I am leaning towards the 76 for the convenience of having both the 6 and 12 in each.

 

[Gmonkee]

I will agree the 6-12 mix saves the day. The 6-6 ran into problems with the swing angles and had to be redone.

Has anyone owned or used the lessor Facom 92A series? I am curious if they are worth trying.

 

[jd_1138]

Those seem useless to me. They're way bulkier than regular wrenches so access will be an issue. Even a ratchet with a shallow socket will be less bulky and give you greater speed. They look sturdy, but a socket on a breaker bar is just as strong.

 

[Arne73]

Bumping up an old thread-
I carry these at work (bottling & packaging plant) as well as some Gearwrench combos. I like the utility of the angle wrenches, most times they are my "go-to" tool.
The metrics are Facom 76 series -12pt on the short end, SAEs are 77 and they are 6pt.

 

[CGarage]

Con: They're French.

An ignorant post.....France is a major industrial economy and produces some amazing products. You need to go out and see the world.

 

[m6z]

I'd buy a Toptul set if I could find them cheap enough. I certainly don't need them though. lol.

I'm sure they'd be useful at least once or twice.

 

[Mr_B]

Toptul set is currently more expensive than facom .
Only real plus to these is the pass through ability, can be handy but it not a must have.
You can mke your own from some old sockets and some bar or thick wall tube stock for almost nothing .