Removing 1 broken, and 2 stuck bolts.

[smalltown]

I think I am becoming an old pack rat! The old part I am sure of the rat part I’m working on it.

I spotted a steel pole that lived a long life as a gasoline sign at an old local country store. It then sat on the ground for another 10 years at second site.
After asking permission I was able to get the pole home which wasn’t so easy.

I looks like it originally had a final on top, and what I would call a side arm (missing) from which hung the gas station sign(s). There is also an eyelet near the top probably to connect a wire to the side arm for support.
Anyway I will soon be in need of another street lamp at the end of my driveway, and I thought this might help.

I was toying with the idea of converting/altering it into to a street lamp, and at the same time a great location to install a wired surveillance camera. It’s got a hollow base so I could wire inside.
There were six bolts: 3 at the bottom of the base, and 3 at the top of the base.
Yesterday I was surprised that I was able to remove 3 bolts with a crescent wrench, and a rubber mallet. 2 more bolts in the base remain stuck. 1 bolt at the base top had previously been broken off. After a little cleaning I could begin to see the outline of the threaded hole.

I thought my impact wrench could help, but these are odd bolts to me: they are all 4 sided, and the heads measure ~0.638 inches. I could not find any sockets to fit.
Lastly having never removed a broken bolt, my first thought was that I need to drill it a little, and buy an easy out. Should I carefully grind down what is left of the broken off head?
Right now I am spraying the 2 rusted bolts with PB Blaster, but I am not so sure it’s getting down the threads to do any good.

The pole is two pieces a base, and the pole..
The base bottom is ¾” steel with a ½” steel tube .
The pole is ¼” steel, and 5" OD.
Length of assembled pole is 20’ 7 ¼” tall.

I realize that once all the bolts are removed it will still be a bear to separate the base rom the pole, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Suggestions would be appreciated,
smalltown

 

[nadogail]

there are three things that might be of assistance:
Heat, Vibration and Pressure.

Liquid Wrench, liberally applied and repetitive tapping while it soaks in.
Don't force anything, use bigger hammers and "cheaters" on pipe wrenches.
Left handed drill bits have often saved the day for me.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I think I am becoming an old pack rat! The old part I am sure of the rat part I’m working on it.

I spotted a steel pole that lived a long life as a gasoline sign at an old local country store. It then sat on the ground for another 10 years at second site.
After asking permission I was able to get the pole home which wasn’t so easy.

I looks like it originally had a final on top, and what I would call a side arm (missing) from which hung the gas station sign(s). There is also an eyelet near the top probably to connect a wire to the side arm for support.
Anyway I will soon be in need of another street lamp at the end of my driveway, and I thought this might help.

I was toying with the idea of converting/altering it into to a street lamp, and at the same time a great location to install a wired surveillance camera. It’s got a hollow base so I could wire inside.
There were six bolts: 3 at the bottom of the base, and 3 at the top of the base.
Yesterday I was surprised that I was able to remove 3 bolts with a crescent wrench, and a rubber mallet. 2 more bolts in the base remain stuck. 1 bolt at the base top had previously been broken off. After a little cleaning I could begin to see the outline of the threaded hole.

I thought my impact wrench could help, but these are odd bolts to me: they are all 4 sided, and the heads measure ~0.638 inches. I could not find any sockets to fit.
Lastly having never removed a broken bolt, my first thought was that I need to drill it a little, and buy an easy out. Should I carefully grind down what is left of the broken off head?
Right now I am spraying the 2 rusted bolts with PB Blaster, but I am not so sure it’s getting down the threads to do any good.

The pole is two pieces a base, and the pole..
The base bottom is ¾” steel with a ½” steel tube .
The pole is ¼” steel, and 5" OD.
Length of assembled pole is 20’ 7 ¼” tall.

I realize that once all the bolts are removed it will still be a bear to separate the base rom the pole, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Suggestions would be appreciated,
smalltown

You may not need to remove all the bolts to remove the base. Nice score!

Heat up the two with a torch and let cool. Apply penetrant. Let it set. Repeat. An impact is hard to top.

Weld a nut to the sheared off one.

 

[Abeo]

I bet that a 5/8 wrench would fit on that ~0.638 inch head

 

[smalltown]

Wired brushed and PB blaster again today along with hitting with the hammer. Tried a 5/8 open end wrench, but it slides right off when I hit it with the rubber hammer.

I'll keep at it. Can't do any heavy lifting for some time per the Doc. So I got the time.

Haven't heard so I will carefully grind what is left of the broken head.

 

[dave_dj1]

I would weld a nut to the broken stud, and maybe to the one stuck. The welded on nut will give you something to grip and the heat will help it come out. Good luck.

 

[A**holes Garage]

heat, water, penetrant
or, weld a nut or bolt to studs as stated above

 

[MikeF]

Try the 12 point side of the next size down wrench. It's just a set screw. That way you wont strip it when tapping on it. A 12 point or better yet, 8 point socket would be in the better. Try sliding those on until one fits, you know it's not metric due to the age and a standard size so the rust may he making it slightly larger.

 

[Shawn S]

Are you saying your 12 point sockets don't fit, or your 8 point sockets don't fit? If you don't have any 8 point sockets, now is your chance to add to the toolbox!

I agree with those saying to weld a nut to the broken bolt. I have had great success using the method.

 

[smalltown]

Shawn I was trying a set of Harbor Freight impact sockets, both SAE and Metric. Looks like they 6 point.
Reached back into the toolbox and tried a 3/4, 12 point craftsman, and it fit tight.
Getting dark and too many bugs. Will try in the AM.
Hope I am ok using a non impact socket with the impact wench on a stuck bolt?
I will also try my breaker bar.

Regarding the welding of a new bolt to the bad. I have a new MIG or does it need to be an ARC welder?

 

[619DioFan]

Pipe plug socket works best as they are designed for square bolt heads. if you have a way to apply heat , heat all around the bolt then apply parafin wax ( candle wax ) the heat will draw the wax into the threads. this works really well for loosening frozen threads. a decent mig welder should be able to weld a nut to the top of the broken one.

 

[Shawn S]

Get a couple 8 point sockets.
I have only used a MIG welder when welding nuts on broken bolts. Only reason is that's the only welder I have.

 

[wssix99]

Get a couple 8 point sockets.

This...

Heat up the two with a torch and let cool.

And this, and you'll be done. (Just heat the metal around the set screw, but not the screw.)


I just removed some rusty ball joints from my truck this weekend and several tons of pressing force couldn't break them free until I used heat; then things started to move. (I'm now a big fan of the method.)

 

[matt_i]

What I would do is use oxyacet to heat the whole area up including the setscrew medium orange.

Then one can typically wrench out the bolts although sometimes they cool and need another application of heat. Be very careful where you point the torch while focusing on the wrench. Often a pliers like a beatenup channellocks will work and be less sensitive to the heat.

The one that's completely broken off I would lightly file or grind flush, centerpunch and drill for an EZ out. I like the ones that have 4 flutes made by Irwin over the ones looking like a twisted square. In any case, drill as deep as possible, heat red hot, hammer in the EZ out and attempt to rock or reverse the thread.

Using Kroil or PB can work but its best to take about a week's time and wet it down a couple times per day. Those things do work but its not fast. Although, with a month's time you could probably get the base mostly free.

I would work up a slide hammer adapter to 5/8-18 thread when that time comes. Restrain the pole by something like a lag bolt or a rebar hammered into the ground. Then try your slide hammer.

 

[smalltown]

No oxyacet here, and it's way to big to transport. Tried heating It with a small propane cylinder, but I can see that the heat just gets wicked away. Took a quick look at propane verses map gas pro, and it appears that map gas pro is only about 100 degrees hotter.

Cleaned them again with the wire brush then more PB blaster.
At the broken bolt it was somehow distorted beyond the hole. I used a grinder to lower it and then a chisel knock it away in small pieces. At least now I can see the complete circle where the bolt threads into.

 

[D45]

Use MAPP gas, much better than propane

MAPP gas works for me every time

You are probably using MAP PRO, which is only 100 degree hotter

MAPP temp = 5300
MAP-PRO = 3600
Propane is 3450

 

[Bretny]

They make square sockets for that size bolt.
But try this first. Heat with propane torch until you get the threads almost red. Then cool it by pushing a candle against it until the candle almost wont melt. Now tap its head with a hammer and turn it.

I have got way more stuck looking bolts out useing this method. As for the one thats alreaty broken off i would weld a nut on whats left. Only weld inside the nut.
What ever you do..do not try to drill it out! Its never in the center and you end up with a mess.

 

[like2wheel]

Use MAPP gas, much better than propane

MAPP gas works for me every time

You are probably using MAP PRO, which is only 100 degree hotter

MAPP temp = 5300
MAP-PRO = 3600
Propane is 3450

Don't know where you expect the OP to find real Mapp gas.
Pretty sure thay stopped producing it around 10 years ago...

 

[smalltown]

Could not find any 8 point sockets locally, however Brenty's comments abut square sockets got me thinking. I found what is called a pipe plug socket "square" socket in 5/8.
Sunex Tools 220FP 1/2-Inch Drive 5/8-Inch Female Pipe Plug Socket

So I'll pause until that arrives, but continue with the PB Blaser on the stuck bolts.

 

[619DioFan]

Could not find any 8 point sockets locally, however Brenty's comments abut square sockets got me thinking. I found what is called a pipe plug socket "square" socket in 5/8.
Sunex Tools 220FP 1/2-Inch Drive 5/8-Inch Female Pipe Plug Socket

So I'll pause until that arrives, but continue with the PB Blaser on the stuck bolts.

Dam , why didn't I think of that ?

 

[MoonRise]

Use MAPP gas, much better than propane

MAPP gas works for me every time

You are probably using MAP PRO, which is only 100 degree hotter

MAPP temp = 5300
MAP-PRO = 3600
Propane is 3450

Unless you find some old stock somewhere, there is no more MAPP gas available.

At all.

The one (and only) producer stopped making it in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas

Back to the OP's issues.

You really do need to use an oxy-fuel torch. Oxy-acetylene or oxy-propane to intensely heat the bolt(s) to red hot. Let cool back to room temperature. Heat again and let cool. Heat at least a third time and let cool.

Those bolts (square head set screws actually ) have been sitting (and rusting into place) for DECADES. Persuade them out by the intense heat-cool cycling to help break loose the rust that is locking the male threads to the female threads.

For the broken bolt, you can do the heat-cool and then weld a nut to the 'stub' so that you have something for a wrench/socket to grab onto so that you can torque it out.

Or do the heat-cool and then drill it out.

But let me ask you this.

Why do you 'need' to remove the pole from the base? Leave the pole attached to the base and mount the base to the ground (by attaching it to a concrete foundation block).

 

[D45]

Was not aware there is no more MAPP...…..good thing I have 20 bottles

 

[A**holes Garage]

High heat and quench with water
repeat
soak with liquid wrench
repeat

 

[Radix2]

The fit between the ends and the pipe is not that precise that you should need all three setscrews out. Two of the three should be plenty, that "broken" one looks like it may have been welded?. Even one removed should allow you to slide the ends off. Start putting your oil between the pipes now too.

Heat oil and time - you will get it!

 

[smalltown]

Yup I'm squirting PB Blaster on the stuck bolts, and the broken off bolt each time I go out there.
New 5/8 square socket in the mail should take a few days to get here.

I guess this weekend when I have help I could try wiggling the pipe to see if it moves at all. It would make life easier.

I want to separate the pipe from the base to remove all the rust and paint. Going to use electrolysis. The base is big enough that I will lower it into a 45 gallon trash can.

 

[smalltown]

Well finally goy the base separated from the pole.
After I almost removed another bolt, by working it back and forth it broke.
Luckily a friend came by with an oxygen acetylene torch, and he was able to remove two more. The last bolt that was almost flush to begin with was the hardest.

He finally stuck the torch down between the base and pole, and cut the bolt of there.

After soaking it with PB blaster I was finally able to remove the base.
It budged slowly with a sledge, but it picked up speed. 23 inches later it's off !

So it took a combination of the answers posted, and I have another question.
Now that it is separated I need to remove that last remanent of the bolt that was torched. I've never drilled out a bolt. Should I try to somehow drill it out from the outside ?


Here are a few photos.

The first 2 just to show the separation after a little wire brushing.

The 3rd shows the outside base view, and the 4th the base inside view.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

Good job getting it apart. Since the location of the broken bolt is not critical, can you abandon the broken one and drill and tap a new hole? Or drill a hole and weld a nut to the tube?

 

[smalltown]

I was hoping not to abandon the hole just yet, but if I need to that's a good suggestion.
Tomorrow I'll see what a cold chisel might do to the area inside the base.

 

[rburke65]

That’s a great looking, tall pole. Worth saving.

 

[plinker]

As mentioned, welding a nut to the broke off set screw would be the best method for removing it. It may take a couple attempts, use coarse threaded nuts.

 

[like2wheel]

As mentioned, welding a nut to the broke off set screw would be the best method for removing it. It may take a couple attempts, use coarse threaded nuts.

Ok, I'll bite.
Why would a coarse threaded nut matter when you're just filling it up with weld anyway?

 

[smalltown]

We tried welding a nut to the broken off (flush) bolt several times without success.
That is why he cut the bolt off on the inside, and I was finally able to remove the base.


When I had a few moments I today I tried a cold chisel on the inside of the post trying to knock off the what the torch had melted without much progress.

I had an idea to try my small harbor freight angle grinder. I was just small enough to slide down inside the top of the base, and I was able grind everything smooth.
So now I'm wondering should I buy some kind of easy out kit to try and back it out or do something to try and screw it in until it falls out inside the open base ?

At least there is only 1/4" of broken bolt threads to get out

 

[smalltown]

Tried to drill out the stuck threads. I was close to the center, but of course not perfect as it exited on the far side. I heated the area with a regular propane torch, and let it cool slowly. I then purchased an Irwin screw extractor, and tried that She's a no budge !

Maybe I need more of the oxy acetylene torch.