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Concrete Curing

protegeV

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I've been poring (pun intended) over a ton of threads about the million different ways to aid the curing process. Sprinklers, flooding, plastic mat, burlap mats, liquid curing aids, etc, etc.

My pad just finished getting prepped today and concrete is scheduled for next thursday. I was hoping it would cool off, but this is Texas, no such luck. 100+ with full sun and no rain for the forseeable future. My concrete guy says they can spray a curing sealer on it, no charge. But I'm afraid that it's just going to get fried with the super high temps and direct sunlight.

I was thinking of putting up some posts and having a tarp suspended above the slab with sprinklers going on it to keep the area moist and shielded from the sun, but I'm not sure if that's a great idea either.

Either way, Im spending a ton of money on this project and I realize you get one shot at the concrete, so I want to make sure I do it right.
 
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protegeV

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niget2002

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Sounds like you got hit by the sudden heat wave like we did...

Planned our first camping trip for this weekend. Didn't expect 106º already.

On the concrete pour... I think GMCGarage hit the nail on the head.
 

aleccolin

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I've been poring (pun intended) over a ton of threads about the million different ways to aid the curing process. Sprinklers, flooding, plastic mat, burlap mats, liquid curing aids, etc, etc.

My pad just finished getting prepped today and concrete is scheduled for next thursday. I was hoping it would cool off, but this is Texas, no such luck. 100+ with full sun and no rain for the forseeable future. My concrete guy says they can spray a curing sealer on it, no charge. But I'm afraid that it's just going to get fried with the super high temps and direct sunlight.

I was thinking of putting up some posts and having a tarp suspended above the slab with sprinklers going on it to keep the area moist and shielded from the sun, but I'm not sure if that's a great idea either.

Either way, Im spending a ton of money on this project and I realize you get one shot at the concrete, so I want to make sure I do it right.

I've been a commercial concrete contractor for 10 years, we do a ton of flatwork year round in all conditions. Hot weather is in some ways easier to deal with than cold weather.

Basic guidelines:

1. Most specs limit as-delivered fresh concrete temps to 90 or 95 degrees. This almost always requires using chilled water in the mix, which is an added cost of $3-5 per CY. Any batch plant without chillers doesn't get our business, and not having chillers in TX would be suicide. You can replace part of the mix water with ice as well, that's usually $10-15 per CY depending on the ratio. One trick we sometimes use is to withold 2 gallons of mix water per CY at the plant, and have the trucks fill their tanks with cold water, and then add it back and re-slump the mix on site just before the pour. This is different from retempering which is adding water to an old/tight mix to loosen it up, which is NOT recommended.

2. Heat of hydration is reduced by using a cement substitute such as Flyash or slag, which slows the initial set and therefore the heat generated. Most specs limit cement substitutes to 25% of the cementitious content by weight. This is highly recommended for summer pours without shade, as an all Portland mix will take off quickly and might get away from the finishers. Set-retarding admixtures can help buy some time up front to get it down and start working it, but when they wear off you better be ready for it.

3. Curing by spray applied curing compound is cheap and easy, which is why all contractors prefer this. Don't do it. Wet cure all slabs whenever possible, especially in high heat and direct sun, for the best chance at reducing random cracking to a minimum. For a trowel finished slab with a good vapor barrier (!!!) underneath it the usual 5-7 days can be reduced to 3 so long as the slab stays wet. Flood/sprinkle, or use a moisture retaining cover like hydrasorb or burlene. You can also use cheap 6 mil poly, but you'll have to keep pulling it up to rewet the slab and put it back down with something to ballast it.

4. Plastic shrinkage cracking is a concern during and at the tail end of the finishing operation. This can be partly due to high evaporation rates, so the use of an evaporation reducer like Confilm is recommended during concrete finishing. This is different from a curing compound and is only meant to reduce evaporation at the surface between finishing operations. The use of synthetic microfibers in the mix can also help reduce plastic shrinkage cracking, without adding much cost or difficulty in finishing.

5. Pour EARLY. Ideally all of the concrete should be down before the sun comes up. This sometimes means paying an early opening fee to the batch plant, but that's usually negotiable. We start most of our summer slab pours at 3AM or earlier. Once the sun hits the slab, it'll take off and playing catch up is a losing battle. Finish crews don't mind the early pours, keeps them out of the worst heat of the day.

Concrete is complicated, I still learn something new with every job. ACI writes the concrete Bible that every spec references, linked below is my copy of ACI 305 which has all the hot weather concreting info you could want. Go ahead and download and save this, I'm not going to leave it up for long. Let me know if you have any questions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wvnemriuxu7yj8z/ACI 305R-10 Guide to Hot Weather Concreting.pdf?dl=0
 
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protegeV

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Idk if I can get them out any earlier but the good news is that the slab is behind the house to the west and doesn't see sun til around 11am
 

ConCretin

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The goal of curing is simply to prevent the mix water in the concrete from evaporating prematurely. A spray on product is OK but I prefer a moist cure. Wet the slab and then cover it with poly or better yet a curing fabric such as ConKure. It's best to avoid cold water to avoid shocking the hot concrete.

Air temps and wind will pose some challenges during finishing but after that it's not really a concern for curing. There is some additional info on this in my guide to floor slabs.

Edit; I just read aleccolin's excellent post. He's given you some great advice.
 
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brownbagg

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cover with plastic for seven days, keep concrete moist, I like soaker hoses under plastic
 
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protegeV

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The goal of curing is simply to prevent the mix water in the concrete from evaporating prematurely. A spray on product is OK but I prefer a moist cure. Wet the slab and then cover it with poly or better yet a curing fabric such as ConKure. It's best to avoid cold water to avoid shocking the hot concrete.

Air temps and wind will pose some challenges during finishing but after that it's not really a concern for curing. There is some additional info on this in my guide to floor slabs.

Edit; I just read aleccolin's excellent post. He's given you some great advice.

Where do you buy this stuff and how much is it? The website has no info to actually buy it.
 

aleccolin

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Plastic can and should touch the concrete. Where it's off the surface is where it'll dry out.
 

sberry

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I like the tarp for shade, do this ahead of time. Get a couple garden sprinklers and test the setup for coverage etc, have it all hooked up, wet soil first, pour as cool of the day as it can, start to sprinkle as soon as the finishers say. Keep it wet enough to slightly flood it for as long as it can.
 

6768rogues

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Fast cure is generally bad, slow cure is good. As concrete cures, it forms a matrix and pores open up. Those pores let moisture out and make the cure speed up. Keeping it damp slows it down. I prefer to put curing sealer on as soon as I can get on it, usually the next morning after placement. Curing sealer put on early penetrates the surface and closes the pores. More pores open, but closing some with curing sealer slows down the cure. Curing sealer also makes the surface less prone to dusting. I put it on the morning after placement and let it cure. In TX, if the weather is such that it will cure too fast, have the supplier add some retarder to the mix.
 

brownbagg

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Just to be sure, the plastic is not supposed to actually touch the concrete, right?

doesnt matter, its already hard enough to walk on, but put the plastic on it has quick as possible to keep top from drying out. I mean within a hour of them finishing


old school method was to have your forms about six inches high, after pouring, cover with hay and then flood like a swimming pool. keep the slab under water for thirty days.
 
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LifeLongWNYer

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It doesn't get as hot up here, but I am curious.... I've seen fresh concrete pours covered with both straw and pieces of burlap. How do those work? I am ( guessing ) that since those are porous, water sprayed on them gets to the surface, and might be less laborious than covering with plastic, removing to wet the surface, then recovering.



.
 
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brownbagg

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It doesn't get as hot up here, but I am curious.... I've seen fresh concrete pours covered with both straw and pieces of burlap. How do those work? I am ( guessing ) that since those are porous, water sprayed on them gets to the surface, and might be less laborious than covering with plastic, removing to wet the surface, then recovering.



.

it works the same way, that the method the highway dept use, but you got to keep it wet, the plastic slows evaporation

lay a soaker hose under the plastic and just turn it on once a day
 

sberry

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Let it run under it, flooded is good. I think they can get cures to 30,000psi, maybe higher under ideal controlled conditions, as I recall it may be submerged for 28 days.
It isn't even poured, more like installed, quite dry, low slump then covered with water.
 

ConCretin

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It doesn't get as hot up here, but I am curious.... I've seen fresh concrete pours covered with both straw and pieces of burlap. How do those work? I am ( guessing ) that since those are porous, water sprayed on them gets to the surface, and might be less laborious than covering with plastic, removing to wet the surface, then recovering.

The straw is for insulation to protect the concrete in cold temps. The burlap just holds moisture. Both are a bit obsolete at this point. Straw has given way to insulated blankets and burlap to more convenient products that don't stain concrete the way burlap does. State jobs are the only place you'll see it done this way.

If you tape the seams and hold the edges down well when using poly, you shouldn't have to remove it and re-apply water. The poly itself will retain moisture and prevent loss of mix water.

Concrete gains strength though a chemical process between water and cement called hydration. All curing does is prevent the mix water from evaporating so it available to complete the hydration process. Concrete will only achieve the strength provided for by it's water cement ratio. Curing just enables this to occur.

Most mix designs are based on the compressive strength at 28 days. Most curing specs call for active curing for 7 days, which gets the concrete to about 70% of design strength.
 
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protegeV

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The straw is for insulation to protect the concrete in cold temps. The burlap just holds moisture. Both are a bit obsolete at this point. Straw has given way to insulated blankets and burlap to more convenient products that don't stain concrete the way burlap does. State jobs are the only place you'll see it done this way.

If you tape the seams and hold the edges down well when using poly, you shouldn't have to remove it and re-apply water. The poly itself will retain moisture and prevent loss of mix water.

Concrete gains strength though a chemical process between water and cement called hydration. All curing does is prevent the mix water from evaporating so it available to complete the hydration process. Concrete will only achieve the strength provided for by it's water cement ratio. Curing just enables this to occur.

Most mix designs are based on the compressive strength at 28 days. Most curing specs call for active curing for 7 days, which gets the concrete to about 70% of design strength.

I've read that the plastic can literally bake onto the concrete, especially with temps over 100 and in direct sunlight that car raise the surface temp to over 140. Is there any truth to that or am I worried about nothing?

I've been coming up with all kinds of crazy ideas in my head like making a sprinkler rig out of pvc that spans the entire area of the slab, but plastic might be the best compromise of effort and results. Probably better than the curing compound.

The concrete guy says "that's what the state uses" but the state is doing millions upon millions of sq/ft of buildings, roads, parking lots, etc. I just have one 40x60 slab to worry about....
 

Firebrick43

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If you have a good rust free and cheap water source then a sprinkler is best. Plastic with straw or burlap underneath works better if you have hard water or have to pay by the gallon. I Sprinkled my garage slab and ended up with rust stains. Most came out when I etched but still.

You want straw that has been rained on a couple of times. Bright shiny straw is slow to absorb and give up water. When we baled it never ceased to amaze me that people would demand and even pay extra for bright straw when it performed worse
 

matt_i

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So I'm curious why a curing sealer (commercial product like BASF Master Kure, etc) is a shortcut.

Is it that it leaks water that its not supposed to (porosity or diffusion to atmosphere)? Or is it that the hydration process actually needs more water than was originally supplied in the mix?
 

mcbane

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If you keep the burlap wet and dont cover it with plastic it provides evaporative cooling that might reduce thermally induced cracking. But sometimes burlap leaves nasty stains.
 

Jon_E

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I poured my slab after my garage was already framed and sheathed. Frost walls stuck up about six inches and I left my forms high at the door openings so that I could flood my slab about an inch deep. I left it that way for a week and then let it dry.

I have limited experience in commercial concrete but usually it will be plastic on top of the concrete or a curing sealer. However, this is in VT, you're in Texas, so you may need all the help you can get. Chilled water, fly ash, early pour - all good advice.
 

ConCretin

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So I'm curious why a curing sealer (commercial product like BASF Master Kure, etc) is a shortcut.

Is it that it leaks water that its not supposed to (porosity or diffusion to atmosphere)? Or is it that the hydration process actually needs more water than was originally supplied in the mix?

That's an interesting question matt_i. I've never read any literature that said a chemical sealer is less effective than physical moisture retention. It's definitely NOT because the concrete needs more water. A far amount of excess mix water is already added to make the the concrete flow adequately.

I suspect most people feel more comfortable with curing they can see. We want to peak under the curing membrane and see all that nice heat and humidity. For those in the business who have struggled with wet curing requirements on treatment plants, bridges and other highly engineered projects, we probably associate water curing with quality. Overkill is just enough, right?

My biggest reservation about a chemical products is that it stays on the concrete and could interfere with that nice epoxy floor I'm gonna put on some day. The reality is that for an average homeowner, a good quality curing compound is probably just fine. It's a lot better than the curing many slabs get which is exactly none.
 

6768rogues

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Curing sealer will be a problem later if you intend to put an epoxy finish on the floor. I use curing sealer because it slows down the cure for a strong finished product and if put on while the concrete is still green it will penetrate the surface and become part of the surface concrete. Then it will be a good barrier to keep the concrete from dusting. If you plan to epoxy it, you will end up grinding the surface or shot blasting it if you used curing sealer. I let my concrete stay bare, so I use curing sealer.
 
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protegeV

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Is there a difference between curing sealer and curing compound? Concrete guy keeps referring to it as curing compound.
 

ConCretin

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Is there a difference between curing sealer and curing compound? Concrete guy keeps referring to it as curing compound.

Not much. There are curing compounds that have some residual sealing benefits. Most true sealers and hardeners however are applied after the concrete has cured.

The biggest difference is that some are considered dissipating and others are non-dissipaiting. The difference is self explanatory but even the dissipating compounds would have to be removed if you want to install floor covering.
 

Jlbc212

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6 mil poly is a bit stiff and the surface under the poly can dry out in spots as the poly may not lay perfectly flat. 4 mil poly being less stiff will lay flat and the moisture helps to keep it flat. I've always kept the concrete surface damp and kept poly over the surface for a minimum of 30 days. I've usually waited a long time to get to the place where I had a finished concrete floor - another month in the overall scheme of things is no big deal.

I've often noticed that highway bridge newly poured concrete surfaces are kept cool with a water spray and a covering to keep the surface damp.
 
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protegeV

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Talked to my builder this morning. He has a MUCH stronger opinion than the concrete guy. Looks like we will be keeping it wet with sprinklers.
 

brownbagg

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two people that can never help you with concrete are the concrete finishers and the concrete driver. They no nothing about concrete, they just want their money and they gone. They have never seen hard concrete in their life.
 
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