Newbie: Porcelain vs High Solids Epoxy vs Poly Urea

[MJK]

Hi All,

I've been reading up on this for a few weeks now and I feel like I am swimming in options.

I have a 15 year old house with a 840sqft garage. A few years ago my wife got me the gift of an 'epoxy' floor while I was out of town. It was a very nice thought, although I suspect the handyman she hired went to Home Depot and tried to get a 2.5 car rustoleum kit to cover it. 3/4 Ton truck has worn through parts, fluid spills ate through some, tires leave gray tracks, etc.

My OCD can't take it any more and I am in the process of removing it. Joints are cleaned out. The rest will be diamond ground, degreased, etched and then... ???

I want a smooth, durable garage I can easily clean and I want my expansion joints gone. Pressure wash, squeegee and done.

Option 1 - Porcelain tile seems a good option, but expensive. If I did this, I would be using a lighter tan/gray/taupe tile and slightly darker grout. How big of an issue is it going to be to keep grout clean? A floor steamer seems to work just fine elsewhere in our house with 3 dogs, a pool, kids, etc.

Option 2 - Sand/Epoxy filler the cracks, grind and put a 2 part epoxy over it. I don't want any yellowing or fading near the doors, so I have thought about adding UV to the epoxy coat itself and skipping the clear.

Option 3 - Polyurea. It seems new and marketed as more durable? Can you seal the expansion joints before coating as you would with epoxy? How about UV resistance.

Moisture/freeze considerations are not applicable here in AZ. But dust , dirt, and heavy daily use are.

Thanks for any advice from those who have been here/done that. I have ZERO desire to repeat this in another 3 years so durability is more important than price, and I am much more likely to go with something 'tried and true' rather than take a chance on the latest greatest thing.

Any option would likely be DIY'ed unless someone has personal experience with a 'floor whisperer' in Tucson, AZ.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share.

Best Regards,
Mark

 

[Angelfire]

I decided on porcelain. Can’t say much about longevity as I’m just now getting it down. Keeping an eye out for clearances can net you a great tile at a very good price. As for stains and grout, many of the grouts out there have better stain resistance than their predecessors. Going with a dark grout will help as well. Epoxy grout seems to be king with regards to stain resistance but can be difficult to install. I putting down an acrylic grout that after researching, appears to resist stains quite well.
Cheers

 

[Armorpoxy]

Hi, attempting to make an epoxy UV stable will not work, as all epoxies can yellow in direct sun over time, the only way to help to protect against yellowing is with a UV protected topcoat. For full yellowing protection you need to switch to a polyaspartic like our SPGX.

As for the joints, best to do your floor first, then fill the joints with a color matched caulk. The reason for this is that if you coat over filled joints and the slabs move as designed then the coating can develop cracks. Joint filler is flexible and won't crack. Many of our clients just leave them be.

Coating the floor in either something like our Armorclad 100% solids epoxy system, or the SPGX one part polyurea will give many, many years of excellent service, and will last much longer than three years!

 

[WILDHEMI]

Im going with porcelain tile.... I think thats the best, it's durable, won't fade, you can replace a tile if you needed to without redoing the whole floor.... And I think it looks good.
Edit: I'm still on the fence between tile and Epoxy.....

 

[poppakap]

I want porcelain but I haven’t been able to find it under $3.30 sq/ft and the install quotes I’m getting for install are $3-4 sq/ft. Some here have done it cheaper but I haven’t had such luck.

 

[MJK]

Thanks for the insight everyone. It sounds like epoxy is out.

I spent part of the weekend clearing out the garage, stripping and diamond grinding. PITA, but has definitely reenforced the desire not to do this again any time soon.

poppakap - I've done DIY tile jobs before. With a flat floor, small tiles, regular grout lines and pressed edges I have found it reasonably easy to get a good looking results. A laser and tile spacers helped me a lot. Some people use chalk lines too.

If I go with tile, I think I am going to let someone else do it this time given that I want larger tile on a somewhat challenging floor. I have a friendly relationship with a local guy who does commercial jobs including auto dealerships. He has agreed to do this as a side job for $3-4 sqft if I provide the tile and transition pieces (schluter ramp for apron & bullnose for step). According to him the expansion joints should not be a big deal if he uses the right kind of ultraflexible mortar.

FWIW, I'm finding 12x24 PEI 4+ outdoor porcelain tile for $1.00-2.50 sqft here locally. Floor & Decor and Lowe's clearance items seem the best. "Ravenna Almond" is $1sqft at F&D at regular price, and Lowe's has "Palencia Pearl" for $1.50sqft on clearance. I don't love either one, but they are OK.

Angelfire - I'd only ever dealt with standard grout. What is this stuff and where do you find it? In picking tile I seem to be gravitating towards a light tan or gray colored tile to keep everything well-lit. A faux travertine look with smoke colored grout looked nice when I installed it in my last house. If a darker colored grout is a must, the wife likes the slate look. Thoughts?

Armorpoxy - I'm still pretty hung up on the smooth floor. My slab is settled and has formed )( joints - so, fairly wide on top. I had previously thought of sand plus gel filler under epoxy. If I instead do SPGX and then fill - what would you fill them with? I'm wondering how you best balance flexibility and durability, and how good it looks after a few years worth of (ab)use on it.

 

[stm317]

The prep for Polyurea should be the same as epoxy. Fill your joints the same way you would with epoxy, grind it the same, etc. Polyureas are a thinner material than epoxy, so they don't hide imperfections the way that epoxy does, but they're more resistant to chemicals and UV stable.

For what it's worth, I filled my saw cuts with sand and Legacy Industrial's extreme set. My Polyurea kit should be on it's way soon. I'm in the Midwest where freeze/thaw cycles are a thing, but no issues with slab movement or cracking through it's first winter. We'll see how it holds up over time. It seems like most Polyureas are fairly easy to touch up if needed.

 

[Armorpoxy]

STM is correct with his comments. We carry a nice gray flexible joint filler or you can use locally purchased Sikaflex, or if you want something more color matched Metzger and Mcguire makes polyurea caulk in over 100 colors.

We recommend doing the joints last as if you coat over them and the slabs move as designed the cracks could develop in your coating.

 

[RogueFab]

I didn't know anyone tiled garage floors. I wouldn't do it. I don't like cleaning grout. One solid clean surface looks so nice. And dropped things pop right out for you to see. I could imagine a grout line hiding dropped hardware a little more.

Post pics once you do it!

 

[b-boy]

I'd second epoxy grout. It's expensive and it can be a bear to work with, but the stuff is bullet proof.

The biggest issue is the work time. You've got about 30-40 minutes per bucket to get it down before it stiffens up. You have to remove the grout haze before it dries or you're stuck with it. I think buffing out the haze is the hardest part.

It doesn't crack, chip, or stain. It's pretty much water proof as well. I've used it in 3 bathrooms. I won't go back to regular grout.

 

[MJK]

I *think* I found a deal I can't pass up on tile.

If my order goes through, I should be in good shape. If anyone wants in on the deal floor and decor has an 'opportunity buy' for 12 x 24 "Gotham Pier" PEI4 Porcelain tile for $.89/sqft.

My local store didn't have enough, but I was able to order for local store pickup for a very reasonable price. Cross your fingers.

 

[James-W]

I am not a tile guru, but I have read that larger tiles are more difficult to lay perfectly flat than smaller tiles are. Assuming this is correct, if you have a professional do the job it shouldn't be a problem. But if this is a DIY project, you may have some issues.

 

[Angelfire]

Angelfire - I'd only ever dealt with standard grout. What is this stuff and where do you find it? In picking tile I seem to be gravitating towards a light tan or gray colored tile to keep everything well-lit. A faux travertine look with smoke colored grout looked nice when I installed it in my last house. If a darker colored grout is a must, the wife likes the slate look. Thoughts?

QUOTE]

Hiya. The grout I'm using is called Fusion Pro by Custom Building products. It's an acrylic based grout and behaves a bit differently to regular cementitious grout. With the cementitious stuff, you typically grout a pretty large area and aren't too worried about it drying all that much. Then you clean it all up leaving the grout lines. With this stuff, you're doing very small areas and cleaning up immediately say 4-6sf at a time. It's a bit tedious but I've gotten a pretty good system in place and it's moving along (when I have the time to work on it!). Another advantage of this stuff is it will bond with itself meaning I can stop work wherever I like and then come back later and start up again. Mapei has a version as well but I couldn't find any locally and ordering through Lowes was much more expensive. The Fusion Pro is carried by HD...it's not as cheap as traditional grouts (I need 3 buckets for my 640SF + baseboards @ ~$55/bucket).

Now, there are some pretty good cementitious grouts as well for stain resistance that you may consider as well. I believe one of them is called AquaColor by Mapei. Dakota00 on the boards here, a professional tile guy, can help give you insight into this product (I think that's what he used)....Read his thread where he describes his install.....lots of great information there. I have a thread too but nothing like his!!

As for color, the darker the grout, the more it will not show stains should they happen. That being said, I actually went with a grout that is a bit lighter given it's supposedly more stain resistant. Time will tell if I made a mistake on this!

I installed 12x24 tiles in mine. I wished I'd gotten the tile in 12x12 to be honest. The larger format tiles were very difficult to eliminate lippage so I have a fair amount in my install. With the smaller format, you should be able to better control lippage.

Oh, and on your tile selection, if you can find something that meets the specs and is Through Body, I would highly recommend getting it. The color you see on the tile will be through the entire tile which will eliminate unsightly white marks should you ever chip it.


Cheers.

Edit: Just noticed you found a tile. Not Through Body but you know what, you've got a decent tile at a good price so roll with it. I would highly recommend you find an installer for this and make sure they understand that every tile needs to have 100% coverage (ie. back butter the hell out of them!). This is what makes the porcelain floors so strong. Before getting quotes, read the thread from Dakota00 to get all your questions in order for when you meet with prospective installers.

 

[tapered-pin]

porcelain..

especially if you install it yourself.

 

[MJK]

Thanks all. Looks like the tile shipped after all, so the adventure continues later this month when it gets here.

 

[Angelfire]

Don’t be afraid to ask questions on the board. There are a few tile pros that share their knowledge as well as many of us diy’ers that have, ummm lessons to share.
Cheers

 

[MJK]

I tiled my last house, which taught just enough not to try and DIY this. I am now lucky enough to have local tile guy who I trust. We are friendly and he even has done a few local dealerships. I'm doing the grunt work, and he is doing the skilled work. So, hopefully it will look nice and keep the price reasonable.

Thanks for the advice on the epoxy grout. That I may do myself. Any pointers? For example, I am wondering if I need to buy this stuff in smaller quart sizes vs gallons if application/cleanup is that meticulous and dry time is that short?

Also, anyone knows someplace to get or have some tips for making some nice deep garage storage cabinets? Somehow my ugly used kitchen cabinets and 2x4 tool storage racks might look out of place now. But, I need to store a lot of fairly sizable stuff in a small space so, I have to come up with something.

 

[Angelfire]

Thanks for the advice on the epoxy grout. That I may do myself. Any pointers? For example, I am wondering if I need to buy this stuff in smaller quart sizes vs gallons if application/cleanup is that meticulous and dry time is that short?

Not sure if this was directed to me or not but I recommended against the epoxy grout. Not because it's inferior (actually it's probably the best option) but because of the difficulty of install. Now, in saying that, I've never used the stuff myself to personally confirm this....only read all the horror stories. And it's quite expensive. The stuff I used is an Acrylic (many refer to them as Urethane Grouts from when they first started out using Urethanes but most of the industry has shifted to acrylics now).

The Fusion Pro is available in both gallons and quarts at HD. But part of the beauty of this stuff is use what you need and replace the lid to use the rest later. I opened a half full bucket last night to continue my grouting and it was as good as the day I first opened it. My process is to remove just a little bit, put the lid loosely back on, and then spread it. Wash it all up, repeat.

If you are looking to use this stuff, do yourself a favor and surf over to JohnBridge.com and search the forums there. Mostly professional tile guys who have a lot of advice on how they do things. I've got a system down now for this stuff and most of it came from reading their forums. Lots of discusson on epoxy as well if you are still in the mind to go that route.

Also, if this stuff worries you (and it should a bit ), don't discount some of the cement based grouts. They've gotten much better over the years and you can add protection by sealing if you like.

Glad you've got an installer! My knees are reminding me daily that I maybe should have done the same (along with the visible lippage...haha)
Cheers.

 

[MJK]

Angelfire,

Oops - yes acrylic and not epoxy grout. Sorry, at this point they are both unknowns and I got them mixed up. Thanks for re-clairfying and for all the good advice. I'll definitely check out JohnBridge and educate myself on grouts.


Regarding the storage dilemma and just in case anyone else is in the same boat:

I have a little bump out / nook in front of the 3rd car that competes for bench and storage space. Construction tools, building supplies, extra car parts, camping stuff, holiday decorations and the like have no place to go without a basement, attic or other in-home storage location.

After seeing an ad on the local Craigslist, I stopped by the local Toys R Us to check out some of the racking they have. I ended up with 2X 3' deep 8' long 7' tall steel pallet racks that I plan to refinish and merge into one unit. The plan is to use the racking overhead and put cabinets/counter underneath. Hopefully that does the trick and allows a nice, clean, auto-centric garage space below. In theory.

Anyways, over an out for me for a while. I still need to get the tile and get it installed before I can do much more. So, updates in a few weeks I hope.

 

[MJK]

Tile is finally down, grout coming later this week. Thanks to all who helped push me in this direction. I am very happy thus far.

 

[therest]

You'll be very satisfied with porcelain. I did my own and don't regret it at all.

 

[Mr. D]

So using your numbers, if I do the math on Porcelain my 630 sqft garage will cost $4,095.

I ran all the numbers this weekend for Armorpoxy Ultra and came up with $1,500

As much as I would like Porcelain I know me and there is a very high probability I would spend the next several years breaking tiles in my garage.

 

[foodie]

Tile is finally down, grout coming later this week. Thanks to all who helped push me in this direction. I am very happy thus far.

Would love to see pictures

 

[MJK]

Not done yet, but here you go:

 

[Mr. D]

Looks great, thanks for the picture update.

 

[Gerald O]

Great choice. Now you'll have a floor that lasts a lifetime.

 

[foodie]

Beautiful!

 

[danb35]

there is a very high probability I would spend the next several years breaking tiles in my garage.

A very low probability, actually; properly-installed porcelain tile is extremely durable.

 

[trashmanssd]

Looks awesome, I had mine done a little over a month ago and now it feels like a extension on my houses in door space. Even my little Yorkie now likes going out there and hangin with me more (I think he thinks its just another room in the house which he has free range of).

 

[Angelfire]

So using your numbers, if I do the math on Porcelain my 630 sqft garage will cost $4,095.

I ran all the numbers this weekend for Armorpoxy Ultra and came up with $1,500

As much as I would like Porcelain I know me and there is a very high probability I would spend the next several years breaking tiles in my garage.

I did porcelain on my 640 sf detached space as well as full tiles as a baseboard. Used premium thinset and an expensive grout. No way I spent more than $1500 on it. Porcelain can be found pretty darned cheap particularly when the stores are clearancing for new stock/colors/style. I spent about $1.25 sf for pei5, honed, rectified, through-body porcelain ($0.99 sf + freight)
Cheers

 

[MJK]

Finally all done.

I just got everything cleaned and sealed today so no real dirty work yet . I did put down a couple Tractor Supply 'stall mats' in the shop area to do some welding, and had the cars up on jack stands just to see if it would hold the weight. I am pretty happy so far - all I need now is some cooler weather!

trashmanssd - you are absolutely right. It IS much more of an extension to the house now.

Mr. D - no breakage yet despite a few oops moments. As long as you back butter and get full coverage everything seems plenty strong. I do have a few extra tile just in case.

 

[Angelfire]

Well Done!

 

[gtsonoma]

It does look great. But what about heavy things on little steel wheels, engine stands, floor jacks, creepers, etc ?
Nothing worse than trying to move things around and getting hung up on every crack, expansion joint and grout line...

 

[Gerald O]

It does look great. But what about heavy things on little steel wheels, engine stands, floor jacks, creepers, etc ?
Nothing worse than trying to move things around and getting hung up on every crack, expansion joint and grout line...

I've rolled all those things over my tile which has 1/8" grout lines and haven't noticed it at all.

I suppose if you had a really bad tile install with a lot of lippage that could be a minor issue.

 

[MJK]

I've rolled all those things over my tile which has 1/8" grout lines and haven't noticed it at all.

Ditto

 

[Bdick]

dang, nice floor.