The VISES of Garage Journal

[gman007]

Picked up this Reed 1c from an estate sale this morning, $50.

Brok That is a very nice score

 

[davethorik]

2nd broken Hollands I've come across. This one in a friend's garage. I forgot to measure jaws but it seemed 3-4". Using as a press

 

[Gerard]

2nd broken Hollands I've come across. This one in a friend's garage. I forgot to measure jaws but it seemed 3-4". Using as a press

With or without a cheater? Handle doesn't look bent at all...

 

[jaxpc]

West coast guys, Reed swivel jaw, swivel base 403-1/2 $100 or BO https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Re...916802?hash=item1cab2cafc2:g:OCsAAOSwzYpa-Fld

Thanks for the heads-up on the Reed #403 1/2. Looks like I bought it.
Does anybody make the swivel jaw pin for this vise? My first Reed.

 

[wee]

I got the carb same weekend...$10. I picked it up just to practice taking it apart incase I needed to build the Q-Jet on my 72 Vette.

Brian

 

[mtgrizzlymn69]

MT nice restoration job

Thankyou


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[gman007]

Thanks for the heads-up on the Reed #403 1/2. Looks like I bought it.
Does anybody make the swivel jaw pin for this vise? My first Reed.

Jax

As it happens one of the members here, namely KMScott
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/member.php?u=113868

who is often referred to as Dr. Scott for his skills and talent in machining and reviving vises back to life- makes topnotch parts for vises.

For example currently he has a swivel jaw pin for Reed 406 listed on one of his web sites:
http://www.benchvisejaws.com/reed-406-swivel-jaw-pin/

You might want to contact him regarding the pin for your vise.

 

[1foxracing]

A brand new one for me. After fixing up my old FPU vises I started researching the Bison-Bial company and learned the USA distributor was located in my home state of Ohio. I contacted them through e-mail and found out they will import anything from their catalog that you want.
This is the 1250-150L model I received yesterday, took about a month total time and I'm happy with my purchase. You can get a swivel base as a option and different jaw inserts as well.

 

[jaxpc]

Jax

As it happens one of the members here, namely KMScott
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/member.php?u=113868

who is often referred to as Dr. Scott for his skills and talent in machining and reviving vises back to life- makes topnotch parts for vises.

For example currently he has a swivel jaw pin for Reed 406 listed on one of his web sites:
http://www.benchvisejaws.com/reed-406-swivel-jaw-pin/

You might want to contact him regarding the pin for your vise.

Thanks for the Dr. Scott links.

 

[Outlawmws]

Hmm, carbureted, there almost all FI now...….

 

[davethorik]

With or without a cheater? Handle doesn't look bent at all...

No cheater. Guy said he wasn't even leaning into it, just pop and it broke. The break looked porous and clean metal, so I don't think a mfg flaw. Maybe prior abuse had started it.

Unfortunate, bc those rounded top slide vises not common and I like their lines. Also slide seemed longer than normal, like a coachmakers vise.

The dynamic jaw would not unscrew from the rest, so perhaps more hidden carnage.

 

[KMScott]

Thanks for the Dr. Scott links.

I would wait till you get the vise, if the hex is a bolt then the taper is most likely damaged and if stoning and polishing does not clean up the hole then it might need machining and a custom pin made. I have no idea what a 403-1/2 taper pin actual dimensions are and would need accurate numbers or your swivel jaw to figure or create a drawing. I added a drawing of what I have confirmed for Reed pins. I have only sold 2 Reed pins since 2014 so likely not to build any pins for smaller Reeds. Good luck.

 

[Outlawmws]

I would wait till you get the vise, if the hex is a bolt then the taper is most likely damaged and if stoning and polishing does not clean up the hole then it might need machining and a custom pin made. I have no idea what a 403-1/2 taper pin actual dimensions are and would need accurate numbers or your swivel jaw to figure or create a drawing. I added a drawing of what I have confirmed for Reed pins. I have only sold 2 Reed pins since 2014 so likely not to build any pins for smaller Reeds. Good luck.

Dr. Scott, the hole on my 403-1/2 measures .610 - .620 at the top and it is 3 deg (6 included)

 

[Mark in Indiana]

A brand new one for me. After fixing up my old FPU vises I started researching the Bison-Bial company and learned the USA distributor was located in my home state of Ohio. I contacted them through e-mail and found out they will import anything from their catalog that you want.
This is the 1250-150L model I received yesterday, took about a month total time and I'm happy with my purchase. You can get a swivel base as a option and different jaw inserts as well.

Awesome! I believe you're the first member who bought a new Bisen-Bial. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it set you back?

 

[KMScott]

Dr. Scott, the hole on my 403-1/2 measures .610 - .620 at the top and it is 3 deg (6 included)

Makes sense. The 406 is 1" -6 degrees, 404-1/2 is 3/4 dia. - 6 deg. and your 403-1/2 is 5/8 dia. - 6deg. Is it safe to say the 6 degree angled section is 1-1/2" long not including the knob. if so I can create a drawing. Thanks Outlaw.

 

[1foxracing]

Awesome! I believe you're the first member who bought a new Bisen-Bial. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it set you back?

With drop shipping direct from Bison-Bial it was $224.48
Actual purchase was made through Small Tools Inc. https://www.smalltools.com/

 

[Outlawmws]

Makes sense. The 406 is 1" -6 degrees, 404-1/2 is 3/4 dia. - 6 deg. and your 403-1/2 is 5/8 dia. - 6deg. Is it safe to say the 6 degree angled section is 1-1/2" long not including the knob. if so I can create a drawing. Thanks Outlaw.

More like 1-3/8 to the high side. That's assuming to the bottom inside no protrusion. (I hooked a 1/4" wide tape to the inside) The other measurement I made with dig. calipers.

 

[Fordriver6]

Picked up a Morgan 4 1/2 Star model today. I am out of town for work this weekend and was browsing the local Craigslist when this popped up. I asked him what he wanted for it and he said $80.

I mentioned that I was on business and staying in a hotel and couldn't really take the boss's truck on a joyride while the boss chills at the hotel. He agreed to ride out and deliver the Morgan to the hotel I'm at. After I looked it over, I gave him $10 more dollars ($90 total) since he drove out here for me. Might have overpaid somewhat, but I didn't have to go anywhere out of my way to get this one.

This thing is in amazing shape other that some random paint in places. I'll clean it up and paint it.

These pics are the ones he sent me.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

With drop shipping direct from Bison-Bial it was $224.48
Actual purchase was made through Small Tools Inc. https://www.smalltools.com/

Not bad for that quality of a 150mm vise.

I contacted Toolmex to see if I could buy a swivel base for my Dad's #1250-80, that was manufactured in 1973. Unfortunately the dimensions were off.
In the past I've contacted the Bison-Bial sales office to ask some questions. They were very helpful.

 

[1foxracing]

Not bad for that quality of a 150mm vise.

I contacted Toolmex to see if I could buy a swivel base for my Dad's #1250-80, that was manufactured in 1973. Unfortunately the dimensions were off.
In the past I've contacted the Bison-Bial sales office to ask some questions. They were very helpful.

They were also very responsive to me to and set me up with Small Tools inc to make the purchase.

 

[Outlawmws]

I picked up CL Vices last night... two of them. An Athol No 15 with 4-1/2" jaws, quick release, but the support shelf had been busted off and brazed back on. its been in service like that for a long time so a user. I only bought it for the quick release feature.

The other was a really old Columbian No. !44, exposed screw but NOT a homeowner's, vise. This was industrial. pretty heavy only 4" not the biggest one this style we have seen but still beefy at 26 lbs (compared to a 10-14 lb Homeowners) the slide and screw are extra long for its class, and I may set his up on the welding bench

The bottom was setup for a square head bolt I believe, to be used as the center stud and cinch.

 

[jaxpc]

Dr. Scott and Outlawmws. Thanks for the great information on the Reed 403 1/2. After I get the vise, and check for damage, I will be able to make a pin.

 

[va.grouseman]

Fordriver, you can still get swivel bases from Milwaukee Tool And Equipment Co. who owns Morgan vises.---They're not to cheap but available.---I bought a 4 1/2'' Morgan Star and found a base through Oldtoolnut59 who has a store on eBay and has all kind of tools and vise parts.---I got a base and lock-downs from him for $35.00 and shipping, vs $250.00 from Milwaukee Tool & Equipment Co.---You can also type in used vise parts on the eBay site and a lot of good stuff comes up.---Sooner or later the right part will come around.---Of course that is providing you even want a swivel base.---Some prefer stationary.

 

[va.grouseman]

Nice old vise Qutlaw.---I have several little vises that use the square nut system.---I like that style.---When you see one, you know it's old school.

 

[CRSINMICH]

Outlaw and va: Here's an old Prentiss (Sheppard) with 2.25" jaws that uses the same mounting system. I was thinking it used something like a T-nut but a square head bolt makes more sense.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fox: thanks for posting up your new Bison 150 (6 inch) vise and for $225 I'll recommend it to the many members that ask me which vise they can buy if they can't find an old pre WWII one that I seem to like more.

ALL: i'm heading that direction that having a NON SWIVEL vise is probably a better tool, but in some instances having the swivel for some jobs or to just get the vise out of the way might be the best option.

having a hitch type mount on each side of the bench with a non swivel to me seem like the best way to use it and here's a couple pictures a member posted of his over on the vise stands thread in case you and others might want to copy that idea.

or this idea where you can just pull it out of your bench and turn it and drop it back in.

for some of you that haven't seen the vise and grinder stand thread here's the link and there are many ideas and custom made stands and mounting ideas for your tools especially if space is an issue.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252799&highlight=vise+stands

 

[Outlawmws]

Outlaw and va: Here's an old Prentiss (Sheppard) with 2.25" jaws that uses the same mounting system. I was thinking it used something like a T-nut but a square head bolt makes more sense.

Wow, those two vises are near identical. the screw head and the square head bolt bit on the bottom are about all that is different!

 

[gman007]

Fox: thanks for posting up your new Bison 150 (6 inch) vise and for $225 I'll recommend it to the many members that ask me which vise they can buy if they can't find an old pre WWII one that I seem to like more.

ALL: i'm heading that direction that having a NON SWIVEL vise is probably a better tool, but in some instances having the swivel for some jobs or to just get the vise out of the way might be the best option.

having a hitch type mount on each side of the bench with a non swivel to me seem like the best way to use it and here's a couple pictures a member posted of his over on the vise stands thread in case you and others might want to copy that idea.

or this idea where you can just pull it out of your bench and turn it and drop it back in.

for some of you that haven't seen the vise and grinder stand thread here's the link and there are many ideas and custom made stands and mounting ideas for your tools especially if space is an issue.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252799&highlight=vise+stands

Drives
Thanks for posting the link to the vise and grinder stand thread. It is very interesting and personally I did not even know it was existed.

 

[Kasal]

Record 6 vs

 

[va.grouseman]

Outlaw and va: Here's an old Prentiss (Sheppard) with 2.25" jaws that uses the same mounting system. I was thinking it used something like a T-nut but a square head bolt makes more sense.

CRS, your Shepard did in fact use the large square head bolt, through the bench system, and could remain stationary if desired or could be swiveled if the square head bolt was loosened, then you could turn her.

Some Shepard's went a little farther and used a swivel base with the square head bolt also.---The static bottom and the swivel base have matching knobs that interlock when the lock-down lever at the lower front, which is threaded to the center bolt, radiuses on an inclined cam, to tighten or loosen.

 

[Carla]

I would wait till you get the vise, if the hex is a bolt then the taper is most likely damaged and if stoning and polishing does not clean up the hole then it might need machining and a custom pin made. I have no idea what a 403-1/2 taper pin actual dimensions are and would need accurate numbers or your swivel jaw to figure or create a drawing. I added a drawing of what I have confirmed for Reed pins. I have only sold 2 Reed pins since 2014 so likely not to build any pins for smaller Reeds. Good luck.

I restored a 403-1/2 some years ago, which had the taper bore for the swivel jaw pin damaged. I found that a practical repair was to set the vise up in a vertical mill (Bridgeport) with the jaws clamped firmly together, and dial in the taper bore for concentricity with the mill spindle.

I then used a #2 Morse taper reamer to clean up the taper bore, using a centre point in the mill spindle for alignment, and turning the reamer by hand until the bore cleaned up.

With the taper bore freshly reamed to a Morse standard, it was an easy task to set the lathe compound to that taper, using a common #2 taper lathe centre, and tweaking the compound until an indicator read 0-0 when traversing the taper of the centre. This allowed for making up a new pin of the correct taper easily.

cheers

Carla

 

[Shiftless]

Carla:
That is certainly the right way to affect the repair. Thanks for your detailed explanation.

Fordriver:
Your Morgan looks to be in much better shape than my 335 was in when I first picked it up. It came from the fire zone in Santa Rosa CA. Although it wasn’t burned, it was certainly worked hard in the vintage Jeep restoration shop there.
I washed, wire wheeled, belt sanded off some of the gouges on the jaw sides and coated it with Japanese calligraphy ink which is made from soot. Then sanded with 320 grit to highlight the lettering. It is wearing aluminum jaws which I’m sure are not original.
I plan to apply a coat of BLO to seal in the ink coating.

Seems as though the factory forgot about the “N” in MORGAN
.
.

 

[chrisnazzy]

In response to Drives post, I thought I'd share what I've been working on the last couple weeks.

I picked up an awesome custom fabricated steel workbench for only $100 a couple weekends ago. It must weigh nearly 300lbs. I've been wanting to build or catch a deal on a "proper" bench for some time. My other bench is a Stack-on bolt together unit with an MDF top that at some point ended up with a spare IKEA countertop on top also. Looks nice but it's been getting beat up serving as a home and work surface for an ever growing vise collection.

2" square receivers for vises on both ends have been the goal all along once I had a heavy enough bench. Once I realized and came to terms with the fact that every pre-fab receiver from even the biggest brands in towing are all made in China, I found that the 3500lb Haul Master's were actually very nice. The ones in boxes have a nice textured powdercoat and clean welds. I don't weld yet but I had some stout 1/2"-13 riv-nuts that mount these firmly to the bench. I like the receivers and they will remain but the vise plates are only temporary until I can have a friend weld some custom ones for me that are height adjustable and bring the vises back up over the edge of the bench. Really couldn't go wrong for now with the Haul Master vise plates as they are currently being clearanced out @ $12.97.

I figured there were enough vises in these pics I could get away with sharing this here in this thread with my fellow "vise loving" members.


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[jaxpc]

I restored a 403-1/2 some years ago, which had the taper bore for the swivel jaw pin damaged. I found that a practical repair was to set the vise up in a vertical mill (Bridgeport) with the jaws clamped firmly together, and dial in the taper bore for concentricity with the mill spindle.

I then used a #2 Morse taper reamer to clean up the taper bore, using a centre point in the mill spindle for alignment, and turning the reamer by hand until the bore cleaned up.

With the taper bore freshly reamed to a Morse standard, it was an easy task to set the lathe compound to that taper, using a common #2 taper lathe centre, and tweaking the compound until an indicator read 0-0 when traversing the taper of the centre. This allowed for making up a new pin of the correct taper easily.



cheers

Carla

Thanks Carla for the tips on the 403 1/2 jaw pin. Has anybody ever tried the same procedure used to do a chamber bore casting on a rifle bore? This would give a perfect casting of the jaw pin that is inside the vise body and swivel jaw. I believe they use Cerrasafe metal alloy.

 

[bagged89s10]

Picked up this 5” vanderman for $40 the other day.



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[gman007]

I figured there were enough vises in these pics I could get away with sharing this here in this thread with my fellow "vise loving" members.

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Chris That is a very nice setup that you have there and thanks for sharing

 

[gman007]

Picked up this 5” vanderman for $40 the other day.



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Bagged Wow $40!!! Great score! Congrats.

 

[JimNC]

Thanks Carla for the tips on the 403 1/2 jaw pin. Has anybody ever tried the same procedure used to do a chamber bore casting on a rifle bore? This would give a perfect casting of the jaw pin that is inside the vise body and swivel jaw. I believe they use Cerrasafe metal alloy.

This wouldn’t turn out well.

On the rifle you cast the chamber and then knock the plug out from the bore. On the vice you’d cast and then have to knock it out from inside the vice.

To make matters worse, where the rifle bore is essentially smooth and tapered from the breech to the bore, the taper in the vise has a horizontal split and likely deformation from years of use and the cast will fill those making it impossible to get the cast out.

In the end you’ll have to heat the stuff back up to get it out, it’ll flow into the space between the pivot parts, and so you’ll be heating the entire upper part of the vise to get it apart and then clean it up.

Better I think to measure the upper and lower holes and assume that the taper is straight, or bore it out.

BTW, I’m having a new pin made. Going to mock one up in hard maple from measurements provided here and adjust from there.

 

[Johnny_V]

I really don't know if I should like you guys or hate you for getting me into another thing to collect. This weekend I picked up a Desmond Stephan Simplex 300 at a flea market for $15.00. Thought it was a cute vise and the price wasn't terrible. When I brought it home, I didn't like the way the screw was set up, so I re-ivented the wheel once again. I straightened the screw, bored out the movable jaw to align the screw with the nut, made a brass bushing and steel lock collar for the screw, and made a centering bushing for the swivel base. I spent more time with fixes than the vise is worth, but it's a labor of love. Here's some pictures.

 

[KMScott]

I restored a 403-1/2 some years ago, which had the taper bore for the swivel jaw pin damaged. I found that a practical repair was to set the vise up in a vertical mill (Bridgeport) with the jaws clamped firmly together, and dial in the taper bore for concentricity with the mill spindle.

I then used a #2 Morse taper reamer to clean up the taper bore, using a centre point in the mill spindle for alignment, and turning the reamer by hand until the bore cleaned up.

With the taper bore freshly reamed to a Morse standard, it was an easy task to set the lathe compound to that taper, using a common #2 taper lathe centre, and tweaking the compound until an indicator read 0-0 when traversing the taper of the centre. This allowed for making up a new pin of the correct taper easily.

cheers

Carla

Yep that is one way to do it Carla and a good way, Morse # 2 taper is .05/ inch and pretty close to 3 degrees. I was a Mold Maker so I have all the draft cutters from 18 years of mold building. I have a special 3 degree carbide endmill that I use for my Prentiss and Reed swivel jaw reworks, cuts super smooth. I still do not have a lathe and to be honest really do not want one since I get away with my surface grinder, sine plates and spin fixtures to build my pins. Note the small spud to hold my pin in a spin fixture.