Knipex needlenose- twisty, mushy, bendy

[WittHay]

I bought a Mac branded Knipex angled needle nose. I thought there was nothing wrong with it, works fine pulling small pins and clips. I have the Snap-on talon grip also, stronger plier.

Wasn't the marketing for the Knipex was that they are made out of good spring steel. They were suppose to bend and always return back to shape. If you bend a Snap-on needle nose, it will stay bent or twisted. My Talon Grip has a slight twist to it

 

[CR888]

Thanks for all the great replies!

YES, I was using the side cut versions! I just ordered the mechanics version listed above and will see how they compare to the kleins I just ordered as well. Thanks!

Well this thread is GJ on a good day, no ******* match just good info that led to better understanding. I have the mechanics needle nose & flimsy or sloppy are not words I'd use to describe them after what I've put them through for a few years. I do much prefer the dipped red handles opposed to 'comfort grip' or 'VDE' for pliers like needle nose that are often used for detailed work. Comfort grips are better IME for combinations and other HD use.
Downloading the Knipex catalogue PDF would be a good idea so you can decide pre-purchase what products suit your needs best. Knipex has a ton of pliers, I've yet to find a dealer that stocks them all. So arming yourself with part no's will ensure you get what ya want and not what the shop salesman has on shelf.

 

[CR888]

This is where this thread should have stopped. All these experts on this forum and only a few people will read a tool's description. Somehow they think Knipex makes soo many variations for the hell of it, read the damn catalog...it's posted on several sites.

Link to the catalogue would help many......you got it?

 

[hoye0017]

Link to the catalogue would help many......you got it?

https://www.google.com/search?q=knipex+catalog

 

[kctyphoon]

The needle nose that bend - are designed to do that..

 

[KnurledNut]

This is where this thread should have stopped. All these experts on this forum and only a few people will read a tool's description. Somehow they think Knipex makes soo many variations for the hell of it, read the damn catalog...it's posted on several sites.

Amen.

 

[redwrench60]

This is where this thread should have stopped. All these experts on this forum and only a few people will read a tool's description. Somehow they think Knipex makes soo many variations for the hell of it, read the damn catalog...it's posted on several sites.

Alright man, since you feel the need to be rude and cuss at us all over pliers then riddle me this, since I have both the 26-200 (light duty) and the 38-200 (mechanics pliers) sitting right here in front of me can you tell which is which? Which one is more heavy duty? Maybe if you read the catalog you’d see the only difference is the “mechanics” version lacks the side cutter.

 

[maico]

For small precision work I'd recommend German made Schmitz. Very much a Rolls Royce product
http://www.schmitz-zangen.de/produkte.php?art=4&lang=engl

 

[Davefr]

The tips on my Knipex close perfectly. I wonder if the tips on the versions with cutters don't quite touch to ensure that the cutters do touch?

Maybe, but that results in their inability to hold small objects like electronics wire.

Notice the image I posted of the SO needle nose. There's a slight gap in the cutters with the tips closed. As you squeeze the pliers, the cutter gap closes perfectly. IMHO that's how they should be designed.

I'm not really a SO "fanboy" but my experience with their pliers is excellent. (even their precision electronics pliers)

 

[redwrench60]

One says "high bending strength of the pliers tips"

That means tool steel multi-stage oil hardened

https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1336&groupID=1340

The other "Elastic tips: dimensionally stable even when twisted
Distortion-tolerant, elastic precision tips"

That means spring steel properties, bending back to shape

https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1336&groupID=1346

I OWN both Knipex plier types in question. I use these tools every day as a mechanic. I’m not reading out of a catalog when I say they aren’t as solid under heavy use as other brands offerings. Don’t get me wrong, I like them very much...for precision use when other brands are too bulky to work. They have a place in my box but not for gorilla work.

 

[SRSemenza]

Maybe, but that results in their inability to hold small objects like electronics wire.

Notice the image I posted of the SO needle nose. There's a slight gap in the cutters with the tips closed. As you squeeze the pliers, the cutter gap closes perfectly. IMHO that's how they should be designed.

I'm not really a SO "fanboy" but my experience with their pliers is excellent. (even their precision electronics pliers)

Yes, I don't really know about the gap reason maybe it is a defect. I was just guessing since the ones I have without cutters don't have the problem.

I like the Snap On a lot too. I like them all for different reasons and uses.

Seth

 

[CR888]

I have the bend snipe nose knipex which have the wire cutters and there pretty good. Model 26-21-200.

 

[BMack37]

Alright man, since you feel the need to be rude and cuss at us all over pliers then riddle me this, since I have both the 26-200 (light duty) and the 38-200 (mechanics pliers) sitting right here in front of me can you tell which is which? Which one is more heavy duty? Maybe if you read the catalog you’d see the only difference is the “mechanics” version lacks the side cutter.

Read the catalog again there's a link posted three posts above yours that clearly states the differences...and it's NOT that one is missing the cutter. They are different pliers designed for different uses, just because they look similar doesn't mean they are the same, different alloys and heat treatments.

You really think these descriptions described the differences between one with a cutter and one without then you need to finish your Hooked on Phonics VHS:

Distortion tolerant, elastic precision tips half round, long, pointed jaws with cutting edges (hardness approx 61 HRC) for soft, medium hard and hard wire
Vanadium steel, forged, multi stage oil hardened

High bending strength of the pliers tips
gripping surfaces crosshatched, knurled
Vanadium electric steel; forged, oil hardened

 

[redwrench60]

Read the catalog again there's a link posted three posts above yours that clearly states the differences...and it's NOT that one is missing the cutter. They are different pliers designed for different uses, just because they look similar doesn't mean they are the same, different alloys and heat treatments.

You really think these descriptions described the differences between one with a cutter and one without then you need to finish your Hooked on Phonics VHS:

Distortion tolerant, elastic precision tips half round, long, pointed jaws with cutting edges (hardness approx 61 HRC) for soft, medium hard and hard wire
Vanadium steel, forged, multi stage oil hardened

High bending strength of the pliers tips
gripping surfaces crosshatched, knurled
Vanadium electric steel; forged, oil hardened

What I don’t understand is why you feel the need to be so rude and unfriendly. We’re discussing tools here not being assholes to each other.

Have I mentioned that I OWN both Knipex plier styles and I can assure you they both bend and flex about the same. Have you actually tried them or are you just thinking up clever ways to insult me? About pliers.

 

[Spacey_G]

BMack37 - Have you considered the possibility that the only difference really is the cutters (and type of serration) and they simply wrote descriptions to appeal to different demographics?

The catalogue gives zero useful technical information about the way these pliers are heat treated, nor would I expect it to.

Redwrench60 actually owns and uses both models, and seems to be saying there's no difference other than the cutter and serrations.

 

[M6erfan]

What I don’t understand is why you feel the need to be so rude and unfriendly. We’re discussing tools here not being assholes to each other.

Have I mentioned that I OWN both Knipex plier styles and I can assure you they both bend and flex about the same. Have you actually tried them or are you just thinking up clever ways to insult me? About pliers.

I'm going to assume that the steel is slightly different in each model (I've never owned the Knipex "mechanics" needle nose). "Vanadium Steel" can contain as little or as much as .15% to about 14% Vanadium. So all Vanadium steel is not made to be equal and can exhibit different elastic behaviors. Also, heat treat may be different

Anyway, IMO if you want the best buy S-O needlenose. I'm no S-O fanboy but they are one of their products that I recommend to all without reservation.

I have some Knipex needlenose and for their intended purpose they are great. BTW, they reside in my 'electronics" tool drawer. Matter of fact I recently used them on a kitchen remodel job replacing about 8 duplex outlets and a dozen switches. Worked like a charm and the tips didn't bend where my Klien wire stripper with pliers tips did...

 

[yjWrangler]

The 6" Snap-on talon grip needle nose are worth the premium they charge. Very strong pliers.

LOVE the Snap-On needle nose. The slip joints are pretty awesome, too

 

[plinker]

LOVE the Snap-On needle nose. The slip joints are pretty awesome, too

I like their 8" slip joints myself, very aggressive teeth. Also good for cracking walnuts.

 

[KnurledNut]

 

[Jim c]

I started out with craftsman pliers of all types and they are ok for professional use on cars. Diagonal cutters could use a little increased length in the handles. The channel lock cm version are a little bulky through the slip joint area but they work ok. Get real channel locks for slip joints they are superior in every way. Craftsman long needle nose are ok pliers for auto work and the great thing about craftsman is that I have had these tools for 33 years and whenever the break , get loose jointed or whatever, I have taken them in and gotten replacements which has not been often. I do not have any of the newer China craftsman so I can’t speak on those.

 

[M6erfan]

I do not have any of the newer China craftsman so I can’t speak on those.

Well your in for it next time you return them, let us know how it goes...

 

[Jim c]

Well your in for it next time you return them, let us know how it goes...

Now that you say that I am worried. Guess I should begin babying my cm pliers from the 1980’s 1990’s don’t think that I have returned too many since about 2002 or so? If sears won’t do well with exchanges I guess there is always the old fall back channelock which you can still get 24 hours a day at any Walmart for pretty reasonable prices too!

 

[M6erfan]

Now that you say that I am worried. Guess I should begin babying my cm pliers from the 1980’s 1990’s don’t think that I have returned too many since about 2002 or so? If sears won’t do well with exchanges I guess there is always the old fall back channelock which you can still get 24 hours a day at any Walmart for pretty reasonable prices too!

Exchanging them wont be a problem, unless getting a Made In China replacement is an issue for you...

 

[chrisnazzy]

Why [do] you feel the need to be so rude and unfriendly. We’re discussing tools here not being assholes to each other.

Couldn't agree more!

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[mr.lemons]

Really like Knipex pliers but have to agree that the fit and finish is not always great. I've had a couple with jaws that don't line up flush on the sides and I had to file off a sharp manufacturing defect on my current pair. Still great but not what some people here make them out to be. Found Wiha Vietnam and CK pliers to have much better fit and finish. Not a heavy pliers user so cannot compare durability.

 

[AA/FC]

Catalog description or not..... I can not think of a situation where a flexible needle nose would have an advantage over another pair that is rock solid.

And yes, I own every brand mentioned in this thread and my Snap On Talon grip is BY FAR the best needle nose pliers I haver ever used. Snap On is known for having extremely outrageous pricing on their tools, but their pliers are actually not that bad. For slightly more than you would pay for Knipex, you can have SO talon grips which are FAR better than knipex needle nose in every way.

 

[mr.lemons]

Catalog description or not..... I can not think of a situation where a flexible needle nose would have an advantage over another pair that is rock solid.

I use screwdrivers all day at work and have had over hardened tips disintegrate/shatter a few times. With pliers it could result in a face full of metal so maybe this is a factor. Also springy metal can have a memory and spring back into shape rather than staying bent. I guess tool manufacturers have to balance metal hardness against brittleness. Haha there must be a more scientific way to say that.

 

[CR888]

Pretty sure Knipex mentions the hardening technique of each tool in the catalogue. They have over 1200 listed products and many designs can be used in other applications than what's listed. My next pair will be some electrical 'installation' pliers that will not exactly be used for installations. My experience with the half dozen pairs of pliers & even their wrench pliers are that they are a very good quality product, often very affordable too. Sure they don't make the 'best' of everything, no tool co does but if you choose the right plier for your work in the best handle configuration (for you) you will likely be a happy customer. Knipex has not grown to where they are today producing poor tools.

 

[JBH]

For slightly more than you would pay for Knipex,.

I handled a pair once. I assumed they were $15-20 after because that’s how they looked and felt. A step below Klein in both feel and production quality in that genre of elongated combi. (“American pattern” needlenose?)

Your comment made me look up how much they actually cost. I was floored. They charge $55 for those things?!?

That is much higher than Knipex/Gedore/NWS.

That’s even more than these, which are for my money (literally; they demoted Knipex to the junk drawer) are the best-of-type straight needlenose pliers: https://www.kctoolco.com/stahlwille-6534-mechanics-snipe-nose-pliers-200-mm-chrome-multi-component/

No one company makes the best pliers for everything, but between VBW (Stahlwille) and those three you pretty much have it for mainstream pliers. Then there are niche pliers, such as grip ons or ratcheting crimpers, where one may want to look more widely.

And “slip joint” pliers are still a thing? That people pay $60+ for? I thought that was a dollar store type tool.

 

[plinker]

I handled a pair once. I assumed they were $15-20 after because that’s how they looked and felt. A step below Klein in both feel and production quality in that genre of elongated combi. (“American pattern” needlenose?)

Your comment made me look up how much they actually cost. I was floored. They charge $55 for those things?!?

That is much higher than Knipex/Gedore/NWS.

That’s even more than these, which are for my money (literally; they demoted Knipex to the junk drawer) are the best-of-type straight needlenose pliers: https://www.kctoolco.com/stahlwille-6534-mechanics-snipe-nose-pliers-200-mm-chrome-multi-component/

No one company makes the best pliers for everything, but between VBW (Stahlwille) and those three you pretty much have it for mainstream pliers. Then there are niche pliers, such as grip ons or ratcheting crimpers, where one may want to look more widely.

And “slip joint” pliers are still a thing? That people pay $60+ for? I thought that was a dollar store type tool.

With cutter, 51$
https://store.snapon.com/Needle-Nose-Talon-Grip-trade-Long-Nose-Pliers-with-Cutter-P864422.aspx
Without cutter, 47$
https://store.snapon.com/Needle-Nose-Needle-Nose-Pliers-P889745.aspx
A bit less if on special, truck or otherwise.

They may seem a bit rough, not really an issue if you're using them. they easily handle abuse (twisting, ete..) and actually grip without slipping. Well worth the money, YMMV.

The Stahlwille grips do look comfortable. 47$as well, per your link.

Quality slip joints are still a thing to some, depends on what you want and do with them.
41.25$, not 60$
https://store.snapon.com/Heavy-Duty-Heavy-Duty-Combination-Slip-Joint-Pliers-P889488.aspx

 

[KnurledNut]

you can have SO talon grips which are FAR better than knipex needle nose in every way.

Except precision. Knipex tips will go places the pliers you reference will not.
Regardless, it really comes down to the right pliers for the job.
For some, SO will be better.
Others, the Knipex.
Others, Klein, etc.
Then you have different sizes, grips, etc.

Hard to pinpoint one as the best for EVERY application.

 

[plinker]

Except precision. Knipex tips will go places the pliers you reference will not.
Regardless, it really comes down to the right pliers for the job.
For some, SO will be better.
Others, the Knipex.
Others, Klein, etc.
Then you have different sizes, grips, etc.

Hard to pinpoint one as the best for EVERY application.

I tend to agree with what you say (right tool for the job).

Curious though, what does everyone consider precision use? Likely not things like installing cotter pins.

 

[dnschmidt]

OK flame away if you must but the HF Doyle's are damn good. https://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-heavy-duty-long-nose-pliers-63811.html

 

[redwrench60]

You guys are slipping. The correct answer is to have them ALL and then you always have the best tool for the job.

 

[KnurledNut]

You guys are slipping. The correct answer is to have them ALL and then you always have the best tool for the job.

 

[BMack37]

What I don’t understand is why you feel the need to be so rude and unfriendly. We’re discussing tools here not being assholes to each other.

Have I mentioned that I OWN both Knipex plier styles and I can assure you they both bend and flex about the same. Have you actually tried them or are you just thinking up clever ways to insult me? About pliers.

Because you refused to read the catalog while claiming the catalog only said one had a cutter and the other didn't...I didn't initiate conversation with you.

 

[AA/FC]

I handled a pair once. I assumed they were $15-20 after because that’s how they looked and felt. A step below Klein in both feel and production quality in that genre of elongated combi. (“American pattern” needlenose?)

Your comment made me look up how much they actually cost. I was floored. They charge $55 for those things?!?

Are you implying that Knipex is reasonably priced. But Snap On is way overpriced? The Knipex pliers that I looked up sell between $30-$35 dollars..... you say the SO pliers are $55. In my opinion $20 dollars more, for an already overpriced tool is not that bad considering how much better the SO pliers are compared to the $35 Knipex.

How long ago did you handle that one pair of SO pliers? Were they new, or used? Because the SO pliers made these days are top shelf quality. Easily just as nice or nicer than knipex or any other German brand. I have actually used SO pliers many times in my life doing actual real world work, not just handle them briefly one time. I can honestly say after USING needle nose Snap On pliers AND knipex pliers, the extra $20 bucks IS a bargain when you consider how much better the Talon grip grabs onto things. Until you've tried them yourself, you will never understand how well they grip.

One of these days you should break down and spend the extra $20 bucks for talon grips, you might be pleasantly suprised. I know I was...

 

[packet]

Are you implying that Knipex is reasonably priced. But Snap On is way overpriced? The Knipex pliers that I looked up sell between $30-$35 dollars..... you say the SO pliers are $55. In my opinion $20 dollars more, for an already overpriced tool is not that bad considering how much better the SO pliers are compared to the $35 Knipex.

How long ago did you handle that one pair of SO pliers? Were they new, or used? Because the SO pliers made these days are top shelf quality. Easily just as nice or nicer than knipex or any other German brand. I have actually used SO pliers many times in my life doing actual real world work, not just handle them briefly one time. I can honestly say after USING needle nose Snap On pliers AND knipex pliers, the extra $20 bucks IS a bargain when you consider how much better the Talon grip grabs onto things. Until you've tried them yourself, you will never understand how well they grip.

One of these days you should break down and spend the extra $20 bucks for talon grips, you might be pleasantly suprised. I know I was...

LOL. It amazes me how far people will go to try to justify to themselves SO's latest pricing increase.

Knipex and Stahlwille or any of the German pliers can be shipped to you from amazon.de for ~$25. $55 for needle nose pliers is highway robbery.

 

[AA/FC]

LOL. It amazes me how far people will go to try to justify to themselves SO's latest pricing increase.

Knipex and Stahlwille or any of the German pliers can be shipped to you from amazon.de for ~$25. $55 for needle nose pliers is highway robbery.

Lol. I stated several times in multiple posts that both knipex and snap on are both overpriced. It amazes me what people take away from reading online posts. I don't buy from Amazon.de, I can buy Knipex locally and I quoted the prices near me. With that said, you can also buy Snap-on cheaper than list price from mutiple sources. (ebay, craigslist, SO truck)


None of this changes the fact that Snap On talon grip needle nose pliers are still the best I've ever used. Regardless of price.

 

[redwrench60]

Because you refused to read the catalog while claiming the catalog only said one had a cutter and the other didn't...I didn't initiate conversation with you.

So we should be assholes to each other over a plier catalog then? Yeah that seems reasonable. Alright man have a good one.