Revamped's Delta Dye and HD6525 Acrylic install

[revamped]

Legacy Industrial Products
Prep work... What a pain in the ***! lol. Sanding 80gr didn't work, they hard troweled the hell out of my slab. I had to increase the muriatic acid from 3-1 to 2-1 just to etch it effectively. Lots of extra cleaning and neutralizing.

In hindsight maybe the acid stain would have been a better choice over the delta dye. I put down the amber and had a lot of runs and pooling no matter how light I sprayed. Those resulted in lots of spots and runs with hard lines and looked like ****. I went in the next day and used a mop and switched to red oak dye and did 8sqft at a time of buffing the red into the amber to eliminate the hard edges which resulted in a really cool rust/suede look. The blue highlights was a complete fail and I shifted gears and burnished that in with red to darken it.

The first coat of HD 6525 went on like butter! I felt impressed and after 3 days of back breaking scrubbing 1600sqft I needed something to go smooth. The second coat I added the soft skid and no matter how much I stirred, the immediate areas where I applied directly from the bucket left heavier skid than other areas as I tried to roll it out quickly. Looking down you cant tell, but looking across my floor has lots of areas that have way more soft skid than others. There has to be a better way to apply it. Hind sight, I think some kind of quart sized applicator bottle and squirt it down in circles and roll it out might have yielded a more even skid. No part of the floor is missing skid, just some areas are heavy where I poured little streamers to roll out.

Overall, my floor looks bad-***! Not exactly what I was attempting, but in the end it is pretty damn awesome!

For some reason I still had 7 gallons of HD 6525. I must have miscalculated but I only used 6 gallons on 1520sqft. and I thought I was rolling it on heavy. At Scottys recommendation I rolled out a 3rd coat with a little more softskid and it looks amazing!

About $1200 in product on the floor, and another $200 for prep.

Revamped

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[LegacyIndustrial]

GOOD GRIEF!! IT LOOKS AWESOME!!
PM me last nam & order number for a YETI Rambler!

 

[katilicous]

That's the best looking dye job I've ever seen. Awesome.

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[RPH]

Sweet job, I will never have plain concrete after using stain again.

 

[Toomanytools?]

That does look good, so is the HD6525 more of a sealer than a film like a poly?

 

[revamped]

That does look good, so is the HD6525 more of a sealer than a film like a poly?

Legacy Industrial's HD6525-MMA™ Concrete Sealer is a ready to use 25% solids methyl methacrylate that provides a high performance, fast drying, non-yellowing, sealer for indoor and outdoor concrete applications. HD6525-MMA™ offers improved resistance to rain, the sun, freezing temperatures, stains, hot-tires, and other pollutants that sometimes can be hazardous to concrete. HD6525-MMA™ can be considered the ultimate multi-use concrete sealer that has better chemical, weatherability and wear resistance compared to most solvent and water based acrylic sealers that are commonly used in the industry. Now available in (35) rich solid colors! Use this product for exterior and interior applications.

The 6525 was extremely easy to use. I recommend a disposable 18" roller frame and don't waste your time attempting to clean tools. This stuff sticks to everything!

I like it, each coat gave a deeper luster. I have 3 coats, which is easily scratched when sliding heavy metal objects across the floor, but the scratches disappear when I clean it with just a quick wet mop (probably because I put it on so thick).

 

[Manganos]

Wow that looks great! Good job!

 

[Toomanytools?]

Revamped,
Just wondering why did you choose the HD6525 and not the NOHR-S or a clear epoxy? This seems to be a thin film product I wonder how it will wear, I see you can use an acrylic polish over it to help with wear. Just trying to decide for my own space. I just put down Legacy's Hd37 and HD40 on 2000 sqft I like it. Now I have another 1000sqft to do but want some color not just concrete like the other side. Trying to keep cost down and this might fit the bill over the Epoxy or Poly coatings. So I'm curious what drove your decision to this product.
Thanks Jeff

 

[revamped]

I wanted a sealer that I could be destructive with and recover reasonably cheap and quick. After talking to Scotty, it seemed that even if I burn or scrape the 6525 all I have to do is clean it up and rough the area then reapply and it will blend well. It was pretty inexpensive in my mind for that type of flexibility. The shop floor looks great, but I do plan to do a lot of welding, burning, dragging and use the anchor pots I installed so I know I am going to do repairs from time to time on the coating.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

These sealers meld to each other effortlessly. Super easy recoats or repairs.


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[Manganos]

I used sec sealer and changed the oil on my sons car this past weekend. Oil cleanup was very easy! I'd use it again!


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[katilicous]

I know I already posted, but that really really looks awesome. Your extra attention to the depth and color blend makes such a noticeable difference. Nice work.

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[revamped]

I know I already posted, but that really really looks awesome. Your extra attention to the depth and color blend makes such a noticeable difference. Nice work.

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Thanks Kat!

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[mnewcs]

This floor looks awesome!

Is there any reason you couldn't do the Delta Dye with a clear Epoxy sealer instead of acrylic? I'm thinking of doing clear epoxy and topping with urethane, and think this would look great for adding some life to concrete prior to sealing.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Absolutely can do it.
SEC Sealer is one option: http://www.legacyindustrial.net/products/concrete-sealers/sec-sealer.html
2nd would be our Nohr-S Kit, Clear: http://www.legacyindustrial.net/products/nohr-coatings/nohr-s-polyurea-coating-garage-clear-kit.html

 

[mnewcs]

-Is the dye also compatible with Aquadike as the first coat/primer for the concrete?

-Can the dye be diluted slightly with water to tone down the hue?

Thank you!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

AquaDike is not acceptable as a clear-coat. It does weird things to the floor (concrete surface) as it seeps into the concrete. I don't think you would be happy with it visually. Performance is amazing otherwise.

If you need a breathable clear ,go with the HD6525MMA, that can take the moisture.

 

[Xander]

This does look awesome and is exactly what I am looking to do in my smaller garage.

One question I have is the previous owner of my house (2004 build) had snowmobiles and the floor is all scratched from the sled, will something like this “fill in” those scratches?

Also I have a 4 post in this bay, and can move it side to side, but not out of the garage without disassembly. So will touch up spots be obvious? I am thinking of doing the spots under the posts first, and then tryin to blend in the areas around it later.

X...

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

The stain will likely make them more noticeable. Maybe try to work them out using a sanding pad on a buffer. Leave the lift where it is.


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[LegacyIndustrial]

Wanted to add a pic to this post as it is on the same level of quality and frankly the result is amazing. Again using our HD6525MMA Sealer. This pic was sent to me last night by our Yeti 105 Cooler Giveaway Winner.

 

[NVSean]

Revamped,
What did you use to burnish in the delta dye to get such a great look. Simply a mop or did you use a floor polishing pad with buffer?
As for prep, I see the muriatic acid. Did you diamond grind the floor as well as etching, or just etch? I was initially planning on renting a EDCO 2EC diamond grinder and vacuum system, and planning on 6-8 hours of grinding next Saturday.
I am looking at using the same technique myself. I have about 2,800 sq ft to work on next weekend. I would prefer to etch only, but want a good outcome. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Sean


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[revamped]

1st thing to consider is if it is a new floor or not.
2nd thing, is it hard troweled or has any densifiers.

If your surface is not extremely dense and hard troweled, you might be able to use muriatic acid.

Mine was hard troweled so hard that even the diamond sander didn't barely scratch the surface. I gave up after about 3 hours and it just leaving scratch marks. I used 80 grit and basically it just cleaned the surface of the concrete really well. I then switched to muriatic acid and had to do double strength (wear an organic respirator) just to get the surface to etch.

I burnished the dye with mops because it was building on top of the concrete and leaving water marks everywhere. First I did Amber, then I burnished the red oak into that for a suede look.

Hind sight... I should have used an acid etch dye and not water based. I don't know what my finisher did, I suspect he used a densifier and hard trowled the hell out of my slab, but it didn't take the dye very well so I had to really work it in.

Diamond grinding it should open up the pores, and if you have a lot of stains and such, you will want to work those open so the dye can get in there. Scotty recommended sanding down the surface to open up the pores and expose the concrete for a better color. I had a lot of dark grey slurry marks from hard trowling but between sanding and double strength acid, it opened up ok. Not as much as I would have liked.

I hope this helps, it really depends on the condition of your slab, how old it is, and whether or not the dye will soak in. I would test a spot. If you put a dropper of dye, does it saturate right in? Mine just sat on the surface and wouldn't soak in, so I had to work really hard to get it in there.

I suspect that if I scratch mine hard enough, I will go right through the acrylic and dye and expose grey concrete.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Smooth, hard floors can be a double etch. Great notes!!


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[NVSean]

Revamped and Scotty,
Thanks for the advice and background information. This is a new pour, as of August 2017. It seems very hard and water does bead in most areas. It has some deep dark gray areas from finishing, and I have a few stains from backloader oil pan drips and tire marks from large trailer tires from steel construction. I tried a degreaser that did almost nothing, even at higher concentration.
I think that I am committed to grinding, as I tried an acid etch that did not do much in my test area. I have not tried a more concentrated etch, and may tomorrow night in my test patch.
I will send photos once I get the project going.
Thanks,
Sean


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[RogueFab]

Man, that turned out amazing. That is the best die job I have seen. I have done a few floors in traditional epoxy, but this has me rethinking using it again.

 

[revamped]

Man, that turned out amazing. That is the best die job I have seen. I have done a few floors in traditional epoxy, but this has me rethinking using it again.

Thanks Rogue,
The only reason I used this particular process is due to the amount of hot work I do. I needed a coating that I can repair easily. This acrylic is not scratch/chip resistant however, so dragging/dropping/scraping will leave you with having to scuff and recoat those areas. The repairs blend well however, and it still looks great. If I had any type of paint or epoxy then I would have patchwork spots showing everywhere and it would look bad.

 

[MNMike]

Revamped,
Nice looking floor.

I am in the process of putting down the DeltaDye same color as yours Red Oak. I started on Saturday the 2nd. My Dye also pooled on the surface no matter how little I sprayed on it. The floor is new and I acid etched it to begin with then I rented a grinder so it should have been opened up.
I have been putting light coats on it for 3 days, only yesterday did it come out as Red Oak and that was only on a small portion of the floor, then it turns into a kind of orange color. I have had to spray it out then back roll it to prevent pooling and work it into the floor. I will put two more coats on today and be done with it, unless I try to get a brighter Red as that was the look I was going for.

As far as non skid application. Do you think a guy could put down the first coat then sprinkle the non skid medium then top coat after that??? Do you think it would prevent gathering of the non skid ?

Thx,
Mike

 

[revamped]

Revamped,
Nice looking floor.

I am in the process of putting down the DeltaDye same color as yours Red Oak. I started on Saturday the 2nd. My Dye also pooled on the surface no matter how little I sprayed on it. The floor is new and I acid etched it to begin with then I rented a grinder so it should have been opened up.
I have been putting light coats on it for 3 days, only yesterday did it come out as Red Oak and that was only on a small portion of the floor, then it turns into a kind of orange color. I have had to spray it out then back roll it to prevent pooling and work it into the floor. I will put two more coats on today and be done with it, unless I try to get a brighter Red as that was the look I was going for.

As far as non skid application. Do you think a guy could put down the first coat then sprinkle the non skid medium then top coat after that??? Do you think it would prevent gathering of the non skid ?

Thx,
Mike

Hey Mike,
I hear you on the dye not penetrating. I really think it needs to be solvent based or acid based. I did get some success by really working it into the floor but I don't believe it penetrated the concrete much because when I get a heavy scrape on the floor it shows grey.

As for the acrylic beads, they are very difficult to keep suspended. The issue is not which coat to use them, its just keeping them suspended in the acrylic. Hindsight, I would have only mixed it a gallon at a time so I could keep sloshing it around as I poured and spread it out quickly. very difficult when working 18hours a day on the floor to get it done. I think only adding it one gallon at a time and knocking it out in small sections will result in a more even coating. As for trying to broadcast salt granules, I don't recommend it... I think you will have a much better dispersion by mixing it and I think the manufacturer recommends against trying to broadcast the skid.

Good Luck! post a link to your pics when you get it done!

 

[pondo]

Floor looks great! I'm thinking of using just the MMA for my garage floor. Looks quick and easy. I was told if the floor absorbs a drop of water within a few minutes then it's okay not etching? I have newly poured garage.

I also wanted to point out the respirator needs to be rated for Acid Gases (AG) not Organic Vapors (OV). Sulfuric Acid and Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic) are not organic molecules and the mask may not work. Your actual mask was probably a dual purpose and rated for both. Don't want anyone hurting themselves as not being able to breath is not fun and has happened to me several times in the chemical industry (chlorine, ammonia, HCl, sulfuric, SO2...)

 

[revamped]

Floor looks great! I'm thinking of using just the MMA for my garage floor. Looks quick and easy. I was told if the floor absorbs a drop of water within a few minutes then it's okay not etching? I have newly poured garage.

I also wanted to point out the respirator needs to be rated for Acid Gases (AG) not Organic Vapors (OV). Sulfuric Acid and Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic) are not organic molecules and the mask may not work. Your actual mask was probably a dual purpose and rated for both. Don't want anyone hurting themselves as not being able to breath is not fun and has happened to me several times in the chemical industry (chlorine, ammonia, HCl, sulfuric, SO2...)

Thanks for the info on the respirator! Might explain my sudden feelings of pneumonia afterwards... Lol

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Hey Mike,
I hear you on the dye not penetrating. I really think it needs to be solvent based or acid based. I did get some success by really working it into the floor but I don't believe it penetrated the concrete much because when I get a heavy scrape on the floor it shows grey.

As for the acrylic beads, they are very difficult to keep suspended. The issue is not which coat to use them, its just keeping them suspended in the acrylic. Hindsight, I would have only mixed it a gallon at a time so I could keep sloshing it around as I poured and spread it out quickly. very difficult when working 18hours a day on the floor to get it done. I think only adding it one gallon at a time and knocking it out in small sections will result in a more even coating. As for trying to broadcast salt granules, I don't recommend it... I think you will have a much better dispersion by mixing it and I think the manufacturer recommends against trying to broadcast the skid.

Good Luck! post a link to your pics when you get it done!

Let your roller hit the bottom of the roller tray on every pass.
It will pick up the material and disperse it nicely.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Revamped,
Nice looking floor.

I am in the process of putting down the DeltaDye same color as yours Red Oak. I started on Saturday the 2nd. My Dye also pooled on the surface no matter how little I sprayed on it. The floor is new and I acid etched it to begin with then I rented a grinder so it should have been opened up.
I have been putting light coats on it for 3 days, only yesterday did it come out as Red Oak and that was only on a small portion of the floor, then it turns into a kind of orange color. I have had to spray it out then back roll it to prevent pooling and work it into the floor. I will put two more coats on today and be done with it, unless I try to get a brighter Red as that was the look I was going for.

As far as non skid application. Do you think a guy could put down the first coat then sprinkle the non skid medium then top coat after that??? Do you think it would prevent gathering of the non skid ?

Thx,
Mike

Mike, keep in mind the stain will "wake up" when sealer is applied.
To test, wet it. This will give you a good idea of the look.

 

[NVSean]

I am just about finished with my floor. Revamped and Scotty have been great with their suggestions and advice. I used Delta Dye with several colors, mainly Red Oak and Amber with some highlights of Mahogany.
Initially just spraying on the dye did not give the look I wanted. I followed Revamped’s suggestion of using a mop to essentially blended the colors through buffing the floor.
The sealer is Legacy Industrial HD-6600 MMA and I have 3 coats on now.
Scott is correct when he says the sealer will enhance the color of the dye. It was fun to see the difference. Here are some after pictures. I have more pictures on my garage post under lighting if you want to see the whole process.



You can see that the Dye did not cover the expansion cracks that I filled with this epoxy joint filler and sand. I want the smooth floor without having to constantly clean the expansion joints. It still looks great, and only I have picked up this subtle issue.
The important issue, my wife likes the floor! The gloss is great.
As stated elsewhere, you need to wear a good respirator when working with the sealer. I wore one for the entire project, and changed filter frequently.
Thanks again to everyone GJ for their advice and suggestions.
Sean


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[LegacyIndustrial]

WOW! Looks stunning. Great work!

 

[revamped]

Oh, that looks great! You are going to love it in a month as those colors will settle in even more and the wetness will turn to a nice low gloss.

Great job and thanks for sharing!

 

[NVSean]

Oh, that looks great! You are going to love it in a month as those colors will settle in even more and the wetness will turn to a nice low gloss.

Great job and thanks for sharing!

Thank you! I will update in a few months of hard wear.


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[NVSean]

WOW! Looks stunning. Great work!

Thanks Scotty


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[PNWguy]

Scotty - Is there a gallery of detailed photos of installations? I'm leaning towards dying the floor in my house and want to get the colors figured out before ordering the 4 sample colors.

I've found photos on your Instagram feed, but they are not always labeled with the color.

On the materials calculator (https://www.legacyindustrial.net/acid-stain-calculator.html) how many coats of dye and sealer does it calculate for?

On new concrete - how would you finish it, how long should I wait to dye it, and what should the surface prep be?

I love the look, and this may be the solution I'm looking for.

 

[revamped]

So... after a solid couple years of wear and tear, my biggest issue is the water based dye did not penetrate into the concrete in certain areas. Even after double strength muratic acid and two passes of scrubbing to open the pores with 80grit pads. The water based dye looks great under the acrylic, but I have sections that have chipped up and exposed grey concrete as the dye has not fully penetrated.

I recommend using an acid based dye and if you are using new concrete ensure your flatwork guy doesn't make the concrete impenetrable by hard trowling too much. mine was flat as glass and very strong/dense at the surface. The Acrylic is great for scratches, burns, etc. Break up a gallon of the acrylic into separate pints and eliminate all air so you have plenty of supply to make incremental repairs over time.

Scotty - Is there a gallery of detailed photos of installations? I'm leaning towards dying the floor in my house and want to get the colors figured out before ordering the 4 sample colors.

I've found photos on your Instagram feed, but they are not always labeled with the color.

On the materials calculator (https://www.legacyindustrial.net/acid-stain-calculator.html) how many coats of dye and sealer does it calculate for?

On new concrete - how would you finish it, how long should I wait to dye it, and what should the surface prep be?

I love the look, and this may be the solution I'm looking for.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

It's important to create enough porosity for the stain to become adhered/soaked-in very well. "chipping up" could be abrasion that was strong enough to hurt the product or not enough porosity.

Agree that the HD6525MMA or HD6600MMA acrylic sealers are about the easiest products ever to touch-up or even recoat.

Here are a few shots from another customer's project, he used Nohr-S to seal.