Just had a new A/C installed...left with damage

[JJ13]

Man and I happy to finally have my central air conditioning working again but it seems I can never catch a break and have things work out properly the first time.

If you search threads I started, you'll find I had a borderline hack job roof replacement last November. It just passed the final inspection a few weeks ago after they installed a cricket on the 40" wide chimney. That's something they should have known about since it's been code for the past 3-5 years in all the surrounding cities. I'm half expecting to get a bill in the future if they are unsuccessful in getting my insurance to pay extra to cover the code compliance issue. IF they bill me and we end up in court I know I will win plus I'll be countersuing for my time correcting their hack install. The contractor offered to install the cricket after I told him why it failed inspection. I never directly requested it plus I have lots of video and pictures of everything that I had to repair myself because they couldn't seem to get it right after being on the roof four separate times!

About ten years ago I had a high efficiency furnace installed. A few days later I found drywall damage high up on the wall directly behind the furnace. The owner offered to refund $100 if I fixed it myself. Normally that would have been fine but it was knock down texture. I couldn't match the texture so he finally agreed to hire somebody to repair it. The damage was obviously done from a hit on the furnace side pushing a hole into the wall.

Ok...finally, the A/C story. Yesterday I had a new unit installed. I'm not too happy that they flushed and reused the lines but understand replacing them would have required tearing into the bathroom ceiling. I could have patched it up myself but that's a LOT of extra work so I decided to roll the dice.

Today I got home from work, showered, and threw my clothes into the washer. I noticed a large stain on my new Maple door as well as a purple PVC primer spot on my vinyl tile floor. That purple spot is bonded to the floor. If I can find the few spare tiles I think I saved, I can quickly pop a new tile in place.

The door was removed and set aside to make room for the new heat exchanger (A coil?) installation. In my opinion it looks like a large drop of flux was splattered onto the door and wasn't wiped up immediately. I found a few more flux spots on the tile floor after they left. The spot on my door dripped about 12" down below the handle. I tried wiping it with alcohol as well as lightly sanding it but it's permanent. It is soaked deeply into the grain. The only way I can see to fix it is to cut it out with a router and install a patch. That's too much trouble when I can get a similar door for $125-150. It won't be the same quality (extremely thin, cheap veneer vs. REALLY thick veneer and lots of solid Maple). All I know is that I cannot live with that stain...nor should I have to.

I left a voice message as well as typed a message on their "contact us" section of their web page. Hopefully they'll respond quickly on Monday. I couldn't attach pictures so they'll have to come out to see it for themselves. I'm going to ask for a $250 refund, maybe $300 for my trouble and buying a replacement door...or patching it if I can find the motivation and a nice piece of Maple in my garage. Cutting hinges in almost makes buying the slightly more expensive pre-hung door worth it but either way it's a lot of extra work for me.

If you're wondering why the door isn't sealed it's because I recently installed it and haven't had time to take it outside and spray it with the other two new, matching doors. I'm slowly replacing all the ugly, flat hollow core, walnut stained doors and trim.

This is why I like to do most everything myself learning as I go for anything new to me.

 

[WhiffySpark]

15 recommending a stop payment in 5...4...3..2...

 

[TarheelMechanic]

15 recommending a stop payment in 5...4...3..2...

and another 10 recommending to burn him out, bang his wife, **** his dog

 

[eddieK]

How come you think your time is valuable...noted by your threat to bill them for your time...but their time is endless? Depending on when you feel satisfied?

Is the dry wall damage in the closet? Or above the door outside? I ask because it reads like it's in the closet.

You didn't seal the door...inconsequential to you. They marred the door you consider routing it and filling...replacing. No doubt they should have been more careful (just like you should have sealed it), but sanding and a good stain job makes this go away.

Too often clients think long and hard about their own dollars and think nothing about the companies expenses/dollars. In fact it is usually the same people attempting to get a "deal" and try to low ball or just accept low bidder that end up complaining about minor details. If you want details and a job with spotless perfection, tell them during the bid process so they fund/quote the project correspondingly.

And you said they flushed the system, it sounds like the new A/C is r410a. There should have been no flux used because it is not used when you braze.

 

[kneeman]

How come you think your time is valuable...noted by your threat to bill them for your time...but their time is endless? Depending on when you feel satisfied?

You didn't seal the door...inconsequential to you. They marred the door you consider routing it and filling...replacing. No doubt they should have been more careful (just like you should have sealed it), but sanding and a good stain job makes this go away.

Too often clients think long and hard about their own dollars and think nothing about the companies expenses/dollars. In fact it is usually the same people attempting to get a "deal" and try to low ball or just accept low bidder that end up complaining about minor details. If you want details and a job with spotless perfection, tell them during the bid process so they fund/quote the project correspondingly.

Wait what? So he didn't seal the door, maybe he likes the raw look. So it is part his fault they messed it up because he chose not to seal it? If he plans to put a clear seal or light stain then a good stain job will not make that go away.

Never heard of asking for quotes and having to say give me your price and also a price if you do it correctly.

Reminds me of the trim carpenter that installed my newel posts, drilled the holes on the wrong sides of the post to mount the rails, then plugged each hole with a wood dowel (didn't even match the direction of the grain and said stain will cover it up). I've built so many houses and had so many subs only look at what they do and are oblivious they messed up others subs work, you point it out and they say the next can will fix it. Tools dropped on granite counters, ladders slammed into finished cabinets, hardwood floors having to be refinished after the plumber and electrician install appliances. Aggravating.

 

[SALIV8]

Damn that ***** but I would expect the company to fix the drops.

 

[larry4406]

On the purple primer on the floor, they make clear primer. Apply the clear to the purple then quickly wipe it all up. It will take the purple off.

 

[bobbyjean]

On the purple primer on the floor, they make clear primer. Apply the clear to the purple then quickly wipe it all up. It will take the purple off.

does that work? nice...i've made a few messes with that purple ****...hate it..should be banned...was told it is used so the inspector can verify primer used-arrrhhh

 

[bobbyjean]

jj13-i do hvac work and these things do happen...maybe more prep was needed here...i never like going to a customer to tell them i just put my boot thru the ceiling....but maybe they didn't clear the attic out as requested-work together to resolve or you may need a new hvac guy-stay cool

 

[Brian_WK]

Clear and purple primer are just acetone in a can. The purple is so for identification purposes only.

Brian

 

[eddieK]

Wait what? So he didn't seal the door, maybe he likes the raw look. So it is part his fault they messed it up because he chose not to seal it? If he plans to put a clear seal or light stain then a good stain job will not make that go away.

Never heard of asking for quotes and having to say give me your price and also a price if you do it correctly.

Reminds me of the trim carpenter that installed my newel posts, drilled the holes on the wrong sides of the post to mount the rails, then plugged each hole with a wood dowel (didn't even match the direction of the grain and said stain will cover it up). I've built so many houses and had so many subs only look at what they do and are oblivious they messed up others subs work, you point it out and they say the next can will fix it. Tools dropped on granite counters, ladders slammed into finished cabinets, hardwood floors having to be refinished after the plumber and electrician install appliances. Aggravating.

When a customer is low balling you, time is the only factor you can use to limit loss.

Homeowners seem to have this misconception that contractors some how get rich off each project and have unlimited financial resources.

I did not say "do it correctly"- and that is a pretty subjective phrase - I said perfection
It sounds to me about a complaint about a small drywall gouge in a furnace closet. Installing coils and fau's in some closets is a very very difficult task. Add to that there only room for one person...a minor scratch or dent in some drywall is an easy fix. Verses the coil and furnace.

I wonder...do you ever make mistakes at work? A long time ago I learned it is not about the mistakes, it is how you cover and or repair them. This is truth...in the trades where you do physical work with physical/mechanical things.

 

[slow]

Clear and purple primer are just acetone in a can. The purple is so for identification purposes only.

Brian

Then what is the yellow bottle of cleaner, I thought that was the acetone.

 

[JJ13]

How come you think your time is valuable...noted by your threat to bill them for your time...but their time is endless? Depending on when you feel satisfied?

Is the dry wall damage in the closet? Or above the door outside? I ask because it reads like it's in the closet.

You didn't seal the door...inconsequential to you. They marred the door you consider routing it and filling...replacing. No doubt they should have been more careful (just like you should have sealed it), but sanding and a good stain job makes this go away.

Too often clients think long and hard about their own dollars and think nothing about the companies expenses/dollars. In fact it is usually the same people attempting to get a "deal" and try to low ball or just accept low bidder that end up complaining about minor details. If you want details and a job with spotless perfection, tell them during the bid process so they fund/quote the project correspondingly.

And you said they flushed the system, it sounds like the new A/C is r410a. There should have been no flux used because it is not used when you braze.

You seem to be confusing the three separate issues I've experienced. I'm not billing the A/C company for my time. I'm asking them to fix the damage. The tile is a 5 minute job with no extra cost. The door repair/replacement is a much larger job both in time and money if I have to do it...again. If they don't want to repair the damage, I'm going to ask for a $250-300 refund to cover both the door (easily $150) and the 4-5 hours it will take for me to order it, unfold the trailer to pick it up, and installation if it comes to it. I'll first try patching it and see how it looks but since it's a raw finish and right where you look when you grab the handle, it's more difficult to blend and hide any patch work. I haven't been able to spray a clear coat because the weather and my schedule have not cooperated. It's a fairly recent install, the interior door trim hasn't even been reattached.

The principle is, if you damage a customer's property, you should be on the hook to fix that damage no matter what your time and the damage costs. If it's an expensive repair, that's why they are insured. If not, it's a teaching moment for that crew or a reason to think about replacing one or both of them if they have a history of damage or continue to damage stuff costing the company money.

Some sort of flux was used. I just wiped my finger over the top of the newly installed drier and I can see an oily, brown colored residue that dripped down the line onto the top of the drier. My finger comes away brown just like the stain on the door.

The roof replacement is where I'll be countersuing for my time and labor
if they try to charge me for the cricket installation needed to pass final inspection. The contractor should have known and at least warned me. Contractually, I'm not on the hook since they offered to do the job but it wouldn't surprise me to find a bill in my mailbox if/when my insurance doesn't pay them more. I've easily wasted 5 hours fixing their hack job mistakes.

 

[JJ13]

On the purple primer on the floor, they make clear primer. Apply the clear to the purple then quickly wipe it all up. It will take the purple off.

Thanks for the tip. I'll make a mental note of that but that requires driving to the store to find and purchase clear primer. I found my spare tiles so I'll just pop it out and throw a new one in. I'm still going to leave it because I want to show them.



I forgot to mention the worst mistake they made.

They never tightened the hose clamp on the PVC rubber pipe coupling for the furnace exhaust.

Imagine if I hadn't fixed that mistake and it had popped off. That's NOT a mistake that should be happening as it could be deadly. Thankfully, I took the humidifier drain line up to the sink to clean it while they were working (bleach + vinegar, no not combined). Before they left I reminded them I would reinstall it expecting to also have to reinstall the bypass pipe.

The night before they arrived I cleaned up on/around the furnace and removed the humidifier bypass pipe so they could more easily replace the coil. Outside I pulled the mulch back 2-3' away from the old unit and cut two pieces of landscaping weed fabric to lay under the pad after they leveled it. I tried to make their job a bit easier and I still have to finish running the 3/4" drain line that they left sitting 2' away from the drain that is hidden under my washer. He said he couldn't get it underneath but he didn't really try. I had little trouble after slightly squeezing the hose. Speaking of that, I'm going to go right now and lift up the washer so I can zip tie the hose to the drain cover.

 

[JJ13]

When a customer is low balling you, time is the only factor you can use to limit liss.

There was no low balling done by me. They named their price and I agreed. I had told them I had scheduled another highly rated company to give me an estimate but I would have had to wait another two weeks to get it. I was looking at 6-8+ weeks wait with them and another week or two if for the second company. I was mentally prepared to spend 50-75% more than their quote. They called the night before and said they had an opening so I'm happy they were able to work me into their schedule about 4 weeks early.

No worries about me losing my cool. I'm just venting a bit. One of my pet peeves is fixing other's mistakes. I've had to do a LOT of it throughout my life, mainly because of laziness or rushing and not noticing what was happening.

 

[danski0224]

Some sort of flux was used. I just wiped my finger over the top of the newly installed drier and I can see an oily, brown colored residue that dripped down the line onto the top of the drier. My finger comes away brown just like the stain on the door.

If it is flux, the equipment was not installed properly.

I'm guessing that it is oil residue from inside the refrigerant lines.

 

[Toomanytools?]

JJ13
It's hard when someone posts "I can't get a break", either all your subs are incompetent or your hard to please. Either way I feel your pain it is hard to find people that give a F*&% and do a good job. The door thing is a valid complaint almost looks like coffee or the guy was chewing Skoal. The primer drip could have happened and he never even new about it. Hope you get things resolved with as little hassle as possible.

 

[6768rogues]

Things happen, but those things happened because someone was careless. Give them the opportunity to make it right and let us know their response. The guys who did ours at our FL place wore booties over their work shoes, put down drop cloths, etc. Not a spec left behind.

 

[Dagny]

Makes me appreciate my customers.

 

[eddieK]

You seem to be confusing the three separate issues I've experienced. I'm not billing the A/C company for my time. I'm asking them to fix the damage. The tile is a 5 minute job with no extra cost. The door repair/replacement is a much larger job both in time and money if I have to do it...again. If they don't want to repair the damage, I'm going to ask for a $250-300 refund to cover both the door (easily $150) and the 4-5 hours it will take for me to order it, unfold the trailer to pick it up, and installation if it comes to it. I'll first try patching it and see how it looks but since it's a raw finish and right where you look when you grab the handle, it's more difficult to blend and hide any patch work. I haven't been able to spray a clear coat because the weather and my schedule have not cooperated. It's a fairly recent install, the interior door trim hasn't even been reattached.

The principle is, if you damage a customer's property, you should be on the hook to fix that damage no matter what your time and the damage costs. If it's an expensive repair, that's why they are insured. If not, it's a teaching moment for that crew or a reason to think about replacing one or both of them if they have a history of damage or continue to damage stuff costing the company money.

Some sort of flux was used. I just wiped my finger over the top of the newly installed drier and I can see an oily, brown colored residue that dripped down the line onto the top of the drier. My finger comes away brown just like the stain on the door.

The roof replacement is where I'll be countersuing for my time and labor
if they try to charge me for the cricket installation needed to pass final inspection. The contractor should have known and at least warned me. Contractually, I'm not on the hook since they offered to do the job but it wouldn't surprise me to find a bill in my mailbox if/when my insurance doesn't pay them more. I've easily wasted 5 hours fixing their hack job mistakes.

They certainly should have protected the surfaces, including the door. They must have used 6% in the closet - possibly a tight situation where they did not want the excess heat from the brazing process.

 

[eddieK]

If it is flux, the equipment was not installed properly.

I'm guessing that it is oil residue from inside the refrigerant lines.

There are instances where it is much wiser to use 6% silver solder(just like they do at the factory)...really tight positions (too much risk of fire from the flame and brazing takes MUCH longer at each joint), very small lines like cap tubes and sometimes the very thin wall copper on coils.

 

[nafterclifen]

It's a shame when any type of service or repair is performed and your site/equipment/etc does not end up in the same condition OR BETTER. Absolute shame. If I was in business doing that, I would be embarrassed.

My theory - the majority of Americans have accepted the fact that sub-standard work is normal. And the majority of contractors, mechanics, etc have reduced themselves to the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately, mistakes do happen as nobody is perfect but they need to be acknowledge and addressed - not dismissed.

 

[eddieK]

The truth is...some do perform sub standard work...but in most cases, you have to be an expert in a given field to know what the standards are.

There is a vast difference between sub standard work and being messy and or not cleaning up properly when the work is completed.

With that said - after decades in the trade, my number one priority when quoting and estimating a retrofit project...assessing when I encounter someone with un reasonable expectations that is also an un reasonable person. In most cases I only get an hour to make this determination.